Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: The Theory Fighter Thread

  1. #1

    The Theory Fighter Thread

    I wanted a place to be able to talk about my build, and the way I intend for it to function, more in depth without derailing the Judge My Build thread, so here it is.

    We can use this as a place to see how any specific strategies play out, discuss the merits of different builds, etc.


    Since I've started playing again I've tweaked the build I used to run. I switched out the two thrashers for a raider and a siege archer, for 1 more point of break and ranged break. I'll walk you through the first couple of turns and then explain why I think it works towards the end. (Then after that I'll talk about how I think people beat it)

    http://tbs-battle-planner.herokuapp....wxLDEsMl1dXV0=

    This is what I've been using as my initial setup (I'm on bottom),
    Setup.jpg

    My Raider and Siege Archer's sole job is to do as much break to as many units as possible before they drop. I expect them to die by the end of the second turn at the latest, every turn they are alive after that is just free break.

    I deploy them both all the way forward.

    Turn1.jpg

    Raider runs up and hits the highest armor/biggest threat he can for 6 break(I typo'd the picture). Ideally I think it is better to not block the shieldbangers movement if he has the next turn, but let's just say he was and I didn't have a choice with the distance. He goes and hits me back for some armor or half of my strength.

    Turn2.jpg

    She runs up and does another 5 break to whatever, if their raidmaster had happened to go first and use his ability I would burn a willpower and move to the yellow space and break the other shieldbanger.

    Now what would you do in my opponents position? The raidmaster will keep doing 3 break until you kill him(pretty easy with the archers). My siege archer still has 3 will power and will do a 5 break again next turn, but sending any unit (or two) out to kill her sets them up to get broken by my bowmasters and finished off by the warhawks.



    That's how I open up all of my matches. I feel like it does several things all at once:

    I set the pace of the match and gain the momentum. You are stuck reacting to what I do.
    Forces you to move a unit or two forward to deal with the siege archer(which puts them in range of the rest of my units)
    Gives me positional advantage with the rest of my units
    Gives me more concentrated stat advantage (We might have about the same totals, but mine are in 4 units and yours are spread across 6)

    This wins me a lot of quick matches, but I feel like it is because most people I play aren't ready for it. I'm going to be playing a lot more tournament matches and see what I can learn from them. Euar beat me fairly soundly today. Anyway, I welcome your comments and suggestions.

  2. #2
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,275
    First off, I would swap one WH for a WM, who will be covering the "breaker/baiter"SA. Why? Because, if WH goes out to attack the guy who came for his SA, he'll be next-up for getting maimed. Smart players will always maim your (1AB) WH, so that he's just a meatshield (an easily disposed one) protecting your archers. On the contrary, the WM will be able to do 2+1 damage with SI for every WP point he's got left.

    Secondly, I am big concerned about the dashing-off RM, who can get killed in round one... I'd take the first round engaging carefully, to get a sniff of the opponent's plan. It's true many players in p6 QMs will fall for your strategy, but more experience players will see through it and take their time dismantling you. Also, it feels a bit of a waste to never get to use your RM's passive, shieldwall. An alternative, less reckless plan, is to stonewall the RM 2-3 tiles in front of the enemy, so that the SA can attack from behind him. That will also force the enemy to move closer to you, in order to harm her.

    Finally, I'd eventually try switching one BM for an SS. 2BM is better to start with, but you'll soon see that the build is too one-side, i.e. it will be vulnerable against certain builds. That's because that SA or those two warriors of yours will soon get exposed/maimed. So, you can use the SS to bluff-cover several units at once. Always remember: SA (and TH) might seem aggressive, but it's the SS (and RM) that are best used in aggressive engaging! It's much better to keep your THs in-shield-wall, BFing, or have your SAs throwing fire from safety being an ally SB.
    Last edited by Aleonymous; 12-17-2015 at 03:23 AM.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  3. #3
    Builds like Jude are why I always setup my team as far back as possible in the starting area. I believe that on every map except the one with the coals in the middle, even with 3EX, you wouldn't be able to reach me to do your initial break dmg on the first turn. If you rush forward anyway, you just threw away your first couple units for very little to no gain.

  4. #4
    Build has potential in P6 set up, however I fear its longevity if you don't do early damage due to all of the maimable targets. You only really have 1 person who is a "must kill" and that is a 3 AB Raid master. Everyone else can then be maimed. You also have a lot of overkill potential so if the opponent chooses this option of maiming you can be in a lot of trouble when they gain turn advantage.

    I would suggest removing a SA and adding another RM, this will give you 2 maim targets and allow you to set up better cover for your WHs to guarantee some form of first strike. Turn order could be tweaked also, id personally have a WH going first and 4th if I run 2 of them.

    Statting is perfect though, could make the RM 12/10 or 10/12 if you wanted, but that is all about players playstyle.

  5. #5
    Tirean could you explain what you mean by overkill potential a bit?

    I feel like a lot of the people I fight make small mistakes, little things like positioning errors or judging which target is more of a threat. They let me get away with a lot of things that better players wouldn't. So I haven't really been forced to learn from my mistakes.

    Aleo: I've definitely thought about switching a Warhawk for a Warmaster, I haven't because I'm given too many opportunities to use their ability and get two actions for the price of one(need to fight better people). I really like the idea of a Skystriker, but I feel like too often when I'm using her ability I won't hit anything and not effect their movement very much and just end up with a wasted turn.

    spicykorean: I've only fought a couple of people who didn't start at the front but in those cases none of them had 3 exertion on their units so I was still able to get the first attack, we just spent a couple turns positioning first. If I fought someone who could move as much as me not sure how that would turn out.

    Tirean: I did initially have two Raidmasters but I switched it out for the archer because she is usually able to get an extra 3Ex break since she doesn't have to waste it on moving as far. Also if they have a three archer build they have to move a little out of formation to attack her. As opposed to staying in position and just shooting down both Raidmasters. But you're absolutely right about not having enough must kill units and that also makes me think about switching in a Warmaster.

    I'm also thinking of a build that is goes in a completely different direction, but I'll have to get used to using some new units.

  6. #6
    By overkill potential I mean your team has very high potential of killing enemies without the use of willpower. This means that you can't pick and choose when to maim or when to kill since your players often will just straight up kill them instead. This can put you in big issue with turn advantage.

  7. #7
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    I feel like a lot of the people I fight make small mistakes, little things like positioning errors or judging which target is more of a threat. They let me get away with a lot of things that better players wouldn't. So I haven't really been forced to learn from my mistakes.
    True. You get better by losing, not by winning! When I reached the peak of my skill (which wasn't all that high ) I found it was easier to spot the opponents' mistakes than my own. Now that I am rusty, I don't seem to get 2-3 moves right
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  8. #8
    It must have been fun when there were more players and better players available to play with all the time. *sigh*

  9. #9
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,275
    Aye, the first 3-4 months after the public release of Factions were really sweet Frequent updates (balancing, new units, new ranks unlocked), lots of players of various skills, dozen chat-flooders (I'm nothing compared to Tirean/netnazgul/raven), 20-50 new-posts per day, community tourneys etc. Every match (except Friendly) was ranked and wait times were like 10 seconds max... But, seems like Stoic always wanted to make a single-player game. And then port it to every and all platforms; not sure how they will manage to keep up with all that [TBS1,2,3 on Steam+GoG (PC/Mac/Linux), Mobile (iOS/Android), Consoles (XB1/PS4/PSVita)] together with a multiplayer/online game...
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  10. #10
    Suspended Romance1984's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    18
    So, you can use the SS to bluff-cover several units at once.
    ดาวน์โหลดโปรแกรม royal1688

  11. #11
    We've just moved and I've been without Internet for about three weeks. I'm back now and will probably be trying to enter the tournaments every month.

    Overkill potential makes a lot of sense. Not something I had considered before but I can definitely see how it would be beneficial.

    I've been using a skystriker for a couple of games and it has worked out fairly well.

    I'm working on doing a Provoker, Strongarm build. Not sure what all to put with it yet. I'll post some ideas tomorrow.

  12. #12
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,275
    Overkill is actually bad. It means you're wasting stat points on attacks that not need it, i.e. they are better off spent elsewhere. You should aim at max 1-2 points overkill, else it usually means you're burning Willpower or you're picking sub-optimal targets.

    On the topic of Overkilling, note that some units have abilities which can be actually used to reduce the damage output compared to a regular STR attack. This can be handy when you do not wanna give the enemy turn-advantage, or allow an enemy unit to act earlier in the turn-queue or liberate a tile on the board. The prime examples of such mild/constant dmg abilities are Thrasher's Bloody-Flail (0-4 STR dmg) and Siege-Archer's Slag-and-Burn (1 STR dmg + coals). Compare these numbers to the damage of a full-STR Thrasher (12) or Siege Archer (7) against a unit with fully broken Armor.

    Provoker + Strongarm builds are fun to play, especially at higher-ranks, combo'd with rank-3 Rain-of-Arrows But, you should not forget that it's a dual-banger build, so it has to be played defensively. If you're gonna be using their abilities a lot, be sure to bring Raiders (RM or BB) for the necessary Break.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •