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Thread: "Prepare for battle" window.

  1. #1
    Junior Member BigBrick's Avatar
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    "Prepare for battle" window.

    I think this window is very uncomfortable when you play on hard difficulty. Let me explain:
    You have to plan your battles very precisely when you play on hard difficulty, because if one of your strength-based damage dealers recive damage during first 10 turns you will have to restart battle or finish it with some of your units injured(this is unacceptable on hard difficulty). To create precise plan you need to know type of enemies, their amount, their turn queue and their travel distance. So in TBS and TBS2 you have to restart battle four times to gather all information what is very annoying. I hope you will fix it in TBS3.

    P.S. I am sorry for my english.)

  2. #2
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Hello there and welcome

    Not knowing beforehand the {number, classes, positions and turn-order} of the enemy units, as well as the board and your deployment zone, can be seen as a problem. But, the main idea is to add replayability to the game and suspense to the upcoming battles. If you have all the information available, the battle would become rather tedious, meaning that you'd just have to execute the same plan over and over. I could agree to some of that information being available to the player during "Prepare for Battle", but only on lower difficulties, and certainly not Hard

    As for the number of battle-restarts needed to optimize your strategy: I don't think it takes more that one. The random numbers that designate that enemy team info I mentioned are usually drawn at the beginning of the chapter, so quit+reload (provided that you saved just before the battle) will most likely produce the exact same enemy team (classes, positions, turn-order).

    PS -- Your English is fine
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  3. #3
    Junior Member BigBrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    Hello there and welcome

    Not knowing beforehand the {number, classes, positions and turn-order} of the enemy units, as well as the board and your deployment zone, can be seen as a problem. But, the main idea is to add replayability to the game and suspense to the upcoming battles. If you have all the information available, the battle would become rather tedious, meaning that you'd just have to execute the same plan over and over. I could agree to some of that information being available to the player during "Prepare for Battle", but only on lower difficulties, and certainly not Hard

    As for the number of battle-restarts needed to optimize your strategy: I don't think it takes more that one. The random numbers that designate that enemy team info I mentioned are usually drawn at the beginning of the chapter, so quit+reload (provided that you saved just before the battle) will most likely produce the exact same enemy team (classes, positions, turn-order).

    PS -- Your English is fine
    Have you ever complete game on hard difficulty always choosing the hardest option before battle and choosing engage additional enemyies in the end?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBrick View Post
    Have you ever complete game on hard difficulty always choosing the hardest option before battle and choosing engage additional enemyies in the end?
    I'm pretty sure Aleo has.

    I'm personally a fan of the idea of pre-viewing the battlefield, but maybe not the enemy types. I would say it adds a bit to the suspense.

  5. #5
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBrick View Post
    Have you ever complete game on hard difficulty always choosing the hardest option before battle and choosing engage additional enemyies in the end?
    I think so.
    • Hard=Yes.
    • Choose "Charge!" for all Wars=Yes.
    • Pick second waves=80%+ of the time.

    That was before the tweak to the War system that (now) gives you an item after beating second waves. Back when I was doing these Saga1 playthroughs, the chance to get item after second wave victory was like 10-20%, so it wasn't uncommon for me to "bail out" when the first wave didn't go so well.

    That said, I'm currently not interested in "power playing" the game, i.e. to optimize each and every choice & battle. There's some crazy guys that do it, i.e. win all Wars+2nd_waves only with Rank 1 units so that they get max Renown & Items at the end of Saga1. Needless to say that this requires several reloads (per War) and tedious tactics, like bringing only 1-2 ranged units (to abuse the "turn advantage"), turtling in a corner etc.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  6. #6
    Backer Ratatoskr's Avatar
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    Sounds like a couple of my play-throughs - fight everything!

    Anyway, I think a bit more information would be nice, but I wouldn't want everything either. I would almost go for enemy turn order over battlefield though, so I know which of my characters should be going first.

  7. #7
    Junior Member BigBrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    I think so.
    • Hard=Yes.
    • Choose "Charge!" for all Wars=Yes.
    • Pick second waves=80%+ of the time.

    That was before the tweak to the War system that (now) gives you an item after beating second waves. Back when I was doing these Saga1 playthroughs, the chance to get item after second wave victory was like 10-20%, so it wasn't uncommon for me to "bail out" when the first wave didn't go so well.

    That said, I'm currently not interested in "power playing" the game, i.e. to optimize each and every choice & battle. There's some crazy guys that do it, i.e. win all Wars+2nd_waves only with Rank 1 units so that they get max Renown & Items at the end of Saga1. Needless to say that this requires several reloads (per War) and tedious tactics, like bringing only 1-2 ranged units (to abuse the "turn advantage"), turtling in a corner etc.
    How did you do that without restarts? I always want 1 restart to figure out witch pair of units should take first turn, then in 80% cases i need restart to change starting position of that pair because i missed and they cant reach enemies. Then 1 restart to change my turn order according to enemy turn order, and then restart on the start of the second wave, because they at the first turn reached Gunnulf or archer.

    P.S. I picked second waves in 100% cases.
    P.S.P.S. In which build did you played? Before or after diffuculty was decreased?
    P.S.P.S.P.S. Can you make video walkthrough of chapter 4? I really want to see how you play.
    Last edited by BigBrick; 09-23-2017 at 02:48 AM.

  8. #8
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Well, as I said, I only took second waves if I was at over 75% hit-points (ARM+STR) on all my units. This wasn't always easy to happen, because of all the factors you mention! I rarely restarted because I took a long-long time planning each battle even from the deployment phase; when the enemy order is revealed, my first turn was also very calculative. The order of my Hero units was more-or-less fixed, e.g. following a Breaker>Damager pattern (x3, i.e B,D,B,D,B,D); it's easy to tell which of the Heroes had which "role/duty". I think that can get by without any restarts, _excluding_ the second wave spawn which can indeed be VERY unlucky at times. For example, you quickly learn to correctly judge/count the distances, even without the actual tiles being displayed and, of course, you need to memorize the movement range of all enemy classes. But, in any case, when my units were all >75% at 2nd wave, gathered neatly somewhere in the middle of the board, I could win the fight even with an unfortunate event of Gunn getting crippled or Yrsa KO'd.

    To your PostScripts:
    2. Before the updates. Nevertheless, those updates mostly affected the last battle, so no big difference _except_ the guaranteed item-drop from 2nd waves in Wars.
    3. Alas, no time for that! You can find some recorded battles in my twitch channel here (it's mostly Factions battles, but there's about a dozen from Saga1+2 too -- very few have VO though, sorry!)
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  9. #9
    Junior Member BigBrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    Well, as I said, I only took second waves if I was at over 75% hit-points (ARM+STR) on all my units. This wasn't always easy to happen, because of all the factors you mention! I rarely restarted because I took a long-long time planning each battle even from the deployment phase; when the enemy order is revealed, my first turn was also very calculative. The order of my Hero units was more-or-less fixed, e.g. following a Breaker>Damager pattern (x3, i.e B,D,B,D,B,D); it's easy to tell which of the Heroes had which "role/duty". I think that can get by without any restarts, _excluding_ the second wave spawn which can indeed be VERY unlucky at times. For example, you quickly learn to correctly judge/count the distances, even without the actual tiles being displayed and, of course, you need to memorize the movement range of all enemy classes. But, in any case, when my units were all >75% at 2nd wave, gathered neatly somewhere in the middle of the board, I could win the fight even with an unfortunate event of Gunn getting crippled or Yrsa KO'd.

    To your PostScripts:
    2. Before the updates. Nevertheless, those updates mostly affected the last battle, so no big difference _except_ the guaranteed item-drop from 2nd waves in Wars.
    3. Alas, no time for that! You can find some recorded battles in my twitch channel here (it's mostly Factions battles, but there's about a dozen from Saga1+2 too -- very few have VO though, sorry!)
    Updates also reduced cost of items and levelups. I found only two battlees from TBS1 on your channel and int both of them you are overleveled comparing to my walkthrough on old build.
    Last edited by BigBrick; 09-24-2017 at 02:52 AM.

  10. #10
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Yup, items and level-ups cost reduction was also a big thing. I actually found ~4 Saga1 battles:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/41869202 Training (Chapter 2, after Skogr)
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/47842482 vs Bandits (Chapter 4, midway)
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/43395299 vs Stonesinger (Chapter 4, ending)
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/47856780 Bellower (Chapter 7, ending)

    But they all seem from different playthroughs, and with different settings: Normal, Hard etc. In one of them, I had modded the game difficulty (to make it harder) by increasing the so-called "Danger" parameter, which controls battle difficulty. Essentially, it tended to spawn more enemies (which doesn't make it all that harder!) than regular Hard, and of slightly higher ranks.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  11. #11
    Junior Member BigBrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    Yup, items and level-ups cost reduction was also a big thing. I actually found ~4 Saga1 battles:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/41869202 Training (Chapter 2, after Skogr)
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/47842482 vs Bandits (Chapter 4, midway)
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/43395299 vs Stonesinger (Chapter 4, ending)
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/47856780 Bellower (Chapter 7, ending)

    But they all seem from different playthroughs, and with different settings: Normal, Hard etc. In one of them, I had modded the game difficulty (to make it harder) by increasing the so-called "Danger" parameter, which controls battle difficulty. Essentially, it tended to spawn more enemies (which doesn't make it all that harder!) than regular Hard, and of slightly higher ranks.
    I am not interested int Training and Bellower fights.

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