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View Full Version : Archers underpowered? - Missing shots



djangoc
02-28-2013, 10:02 PM
Since archers seem to have a much higher rate of missing when low on hp, compared to any other unit, does it seem sensible to bring only 1 or 0 archers into battle? They're also so, so fragile and easily dealt with in most battles I've been in.

I'm currently running a pretty offensive build that does well against archer teams, which might skew why I'm feeling this to be the case.

Share The Love
02-28-2013, 10:37 PM
It's really easy to take down their hp early on. But if they're kept safe until late game they can be devastating. I think it's a matter of sacrificing some effective early turns by keeping them away from the action and hoping their puncture can make up for it when everyone's armour is low later on. Though that's easier said than done and having units not attacking is very much less than ideal. Not to mention that your opponent can happily commit a unit to attacking your back line if they know any hit will take down your archers to 4 strength or less, if not kill them outright. Their willpower keeps their damage up but as you say it doesn't count for a lot if their adversary has retained high armour units. I have to say, I like the balance so far.

Cerzi
02-28-2013, 11:54 PM
Puncture is just so insanely strong if you have a decent armor breaking lineup and good positioning on archers (bowmasters help *a lot* for this). Even a 7/1 archer is still a huge threat in the late game, as vs a target with minimal armor you'll have a very low miss chance and be able to throw out crazy damage even with tiny amounts of strength. It always hurts being forced to kill rather than maim archers that you'll know will bite you in the ass with a 9str shot later on.


Also just to clear it up, archers have the same chance of missing as anyone. Each pt of str under the target's armor = +10% miss

djangoc
03-01-2013, 12:47 AM
Ah thanks for clearing that up, maybe its my playstyle or who I'm facing but that RARELY happens where I have a melee that only has a few hp. EIther they're full/half/dead, very little in between. Might change when I start facing tougher teams or people that know to maim first?

netnazgul
03-01-2013, 12:49 AM
djangoc, try to play vs 3 archer (2 skystriker + 1 bowmaster) build controlled by decent player and you'll likely to see the difference :) Adding it to arguments said above.

Flickerdart
03-01-2013, 12:58 AM
Archers are my favourite unit type. In the early game, a well-placed 4 or 5 break from behind the line turns a Warrior into a massively vulnerable target, and negates the advantage of the Shieldbanger. Later, once units pile up in the middle of the map, archers are immune to being body-blocked and can shoot at whatever with impunity. In the late game, puncture is devastating.

My archers are both Siege Archers, even though they are an unpopular choice. Their high Armour makes them pretty decent archer killers and their special ability means that even a 1-strength Siege Archer can still seriously mess some people up.

Grits
03-01-2013, 01:08 AM
Archers are very deadly and scary. Trust me. Just hold onto them till later in the game.

Wordplay
03-01-2013, 03:05 PM
+1 to previous 2 comments.

It's also worth mentioning that their effectiveness varies slightly depending on the map. If you play in the Great Hall without archers and your opponent has some you will have a very difficult time winning. Siege archers are especially strong on this map.

The other day I faced an all melee team in Great Hall, I had WM TH TH SB SA A. I made numerous mistakes, but the Siege archer + puncture on both archers, were just too powerful. (That said, I made no mistakes with the archers)

I've often gone into battle with only 1, but I have to be feeling very brave, or just testing a build, to go in with none.

sweetjer
03-01-2013, 03:18 PM
Like I always say, "The game's not over till all archers are dead" :D

Jachymor
03-02-2013, 05:12 PM
Siege Archers are just awesome, their skill has a potential 5/2 damage output on hit. Skystriker can block potential movement and threats. And yes, their puncture ability is especially dangerous to SB and sorts with high armor. Their skills form the battlefield, my friend.

Flickerdart
03-02-2013, 11:54 PM
Edited because I can't math

Aleonymous
05-10-2013, 09:06 AM
Hello! It's been two months since the last activity on this thread, but I am reviving to place a thought I had on the general subject, but somewhat unrelated to the original conversation. Here goes:

Assuming that archers are underpowered and that they need some sort of buffing (which I wholeheartedly would not endorse :D), I would suggest increasing hit-range at the cost of chance-to-hit. For instance, targets at {6,7,8,9} tile-distance could be shot-at for 1STR-damage (+WP spent), at the hit-chance of {80,60,40,20}%, respectively. You know, a similar mechanic to hitting STR-below-ARM. You could go with other scales on this idea, i.e. only {6,7} tile-distances available at {50%,20%}, or whatever. What say you?

Kletian999
05-10-2013, 10:50 AM
You aren't short on ideas that have profound tactical consequences, are you Aleo? I think a new thread would have been better than reviving this thread though.

Aleonymous
05-10-2013, 11:04 AM
You aren't short on ideas that have profound tactical consequences, are you Aleo? I think a new thread would have been better than reviving this thread though.

Well, its just that such innovative games open-up our minds to the millions of opportunities. I understand that most of these "ideas" would lead to totally different (and potentially unbalanced) games. But, that's what forums are about, no? Discussing, suggesting, arguing...

I didn't feel like starting a new thread, cuz this one's title was really close to what I had in mind. I'd have called it "Buffing archers with increased-range, at the cost of RNG miss-chance"; it is quite close to this thread's title, no? :D Nah, the main reason I avoided that was because people would start getting bored of my "ideas" (if they haven't already) :p.

netnazgul
05-10-2013, 11:04 AM
"assuming that archers are underpowered" was your first mistake to revive this thread :D

raven2134
05-10-2013, 11:13 AM
Hahaha I have to agree with netnatzgul there

ojustme
05-11-2013, 08:53 AM
Same for me :) Not to say that introducing even more random to the game is a very-very bad idea.

HappyRaccoon
05-11-2013, 10:29 AM
This thread is preposterous xD

SiberianOrc
05-11-2013, 11:50 AM
What say you?
What about BMs ability in this case?

Aleonymous
05-11-2013, 02:23 PM
What about BMs ability in this case?

What about it? I think it is kinda overpowered, as with everything about archers in this game! :D

I guess, we'll just hope for the Eagle-eye promoted-class to introduce something new to the archer base-class...

roder
05-11-2013, 02:34 PM
Archers are very strong right now. Watched 2 archers alone finish off 5 units on a pretty good stream yesterday haha imo theyre very good vs varls (which everyone is guaranteed to use), and there`s not many anti-archer units except bb (which were nerfed) and other archers lol