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Slimsy Platypus
02-28-2013, 10:12 PM
I'm simply compiling what was in a previous beta thread with some recent developments. As you might notice, I'm super excited about the game so I thought I'd share some of the known info on upcoming units with everyone!

Original beta thread found here: Here's a previously released image of all the beta units (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?389-Here-s-an-previously-released-image-of-all-the-beta-units)
Some previous info from Arnie and Alex here: New Unit Ideas! (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?580-Suggestion-New-Unit-Ideas!)

So Far we know of the following classes:

Base Class: Raider (formerly Axeman)
Thrasher
Backbiter
Raidmaster (formerly Axemaster)
Grudgewielder (upcoming!)

Base Class: Warrior
Wardog (upcoming!)
Warhawk
Warleader
Warmaster

Base Class: Shieldbanger
Provoker
Shieldmaster
Strongarm
Champion (upcoming!, formerly Shield Wall)

Base Class: Archer
Skystiker
Siege Archer (formerly Wall Archer)
Bowmaster
Sharpshooter (Upcoming!, formerly Eagle Eye)

Base Class: Landsman
Hunter Upcoming!
Warden Upcoming!
Unknown
Unknown

Base Class: Spearman
Unknown
Unknown
Unknown
Spearmaster

We know we have more base classes coming as well. In Here (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?580-Suggestion-New-Unit-Ideas!) Alex said "We have five new playable base classes shipping with chapter 1 of the Saga which means a ton of new advanced classes."

Base Class (?): Mender (upcoming!)

Base Class (?): Berserk (upcoming!)

http://s12.postimage.org/8deik0vnx/All_Factions_units.jpg

In this image (although quite fuzzy due to low quality) we can see some of upcoming units along with some Dredge, which have been confirmed to (at a minimum) be opponents in the single player saga

Dredge Grunt
Dredge Warrior
Dredge Tank
Dredge Slinger
Dredge Elite
Dredge Elite Slinger

http://s21.postimage.org/5zcq6oxl3/Promo_chars.jpg

This image contains (from left to right) Rook and Juno (two charactars in the single player saga, note that Juno's name may change prior to the Saga hitting, and Rook has been described by the developers as a "Hunter" in the Forum chat window), a possible Berserk, a centaur, a possible Dredge Grunt, and a Backbiter.

In Here (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?580-Suggestion-New-Unit-Ideas!) Alex said "About the berserks, I don't want to say too much but they will be a new base class... and they're Varl."

Later in the same thread Alex stated "centaurs have been in our lineup for quite a while. They'll be a race new to the game in chapter 2, though, so don't expect to see them in the first release (plenty of other cool stuff to get to, first). "

Arnie then followed up with "they probably won't be called "centaurs" as that's from Greek mythology. These people are designed off the Icelandic Ponies that the viking rode. Surefooted, shaggy haired...etc. They are the one race, so far, that will look like they came from a different culture. That of the celts. "

http://s9.postimage.org/llqkt6qkv/Axeman_designs.jpg

Here we can see our Raiders (originally named Axeman) but while including the soon to be released Grudgeweilder! Just look how amazing the artwork on the Grudgewielder's shield is!

http://s24.postimage.org/c4dfbi4h1/chars_new.jpg

Provided in the recent Single Player update FOUND HERE (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?755-Single-Player-Progress-Kickstarter-Update-30) we can see images (from left to right) of what probably is the soon-to-be hunter, a spearman, a male mender, a female mender, and a possible Berserk. Each of these models will be used for characters in the single player saga, but will also be the same models eventually used in Factions as well!

We dont know much about Menders. But Here (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?580-Suggestion-New-Unit-Ideas!) Alex said "As for Menders, I'm really looking forward to adding them to the game. They will play differently from other classes in a key way that should be really interesting. "

Arnie followed up a little later describing them with "They aren't quite wizards as they use a much more subtle magic which 'weaves' the fabric of creation. We're basing them on the Norns from northmen mythology. I would not think they would jump up off the screen and attack like a Dragoon in FF, but they may be able to pick a tile and channel something for the next round to hit it. "

Slimsy Platypus
02-28-2013, 10:13 PM
http://s24.postimage.org/mdayefyud/Shieldbanger_potential_promo.jpg

This image shows concept art extremely similar to the "Shield Wall" unit in the first image in this post. He has more recently been referred to as a "Champion" and is likely our final Shieldbanger promotion!

In here (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?580-Suggestion-New-Unit-Ideas!) Alex said "So many new classes on the way! Its hard not to spoil anything. But I will say the Shield Wall is now called the Champion and the Eagle Eye (who used to do what the bowmaster does) is now called the Sharpshooter and does something completely different (and awesome). As for units that hit multiple tiles away, lets say we havent forgotten that idea."

http://s17.postimage.org/5tgg2ph73/Warriors.jpg

This image contains some concept art for our Warrior class. The image of interest is the third Portrait to the right, which appears to be the upcoming Wardog! For an additional bit of the upcoming Wardog's animation, check out the YouTube video with them all prettied up and next to each other HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-GtpM9F_Lo)!

In the PAX 2013 Demo video we got a little bit of a spoiler with the upcoming Landsman and possibly hunter class (which can be found HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFfFHYUbO0)). Now, we know the main character, Rook, is a landsman or a hunter. However, we need to keep in mind that we've heard that some of the active abilities aren't going to function the same in the single player and multiplayer, but here's what we've seen:

http://s18.postimg.org/4hnbz3he1/Landsman_info.jpg

Alright folks, that's all I've got for now. Will try to keep this updated with anything else I come across. Feel free to let me know if I missed something. I will have to take some time and read through the old forum posts to make sure I have all the information Arnie and Alex have leaked out together. As you may have noticed, I have been following this very closely with the ambition of a rabid wombat :)

franknarf
02-28-2013, 10:38 PM
Looking around in the game files, I see "dredge ranged blind" and "dredge ranged bomb" characters, whatever those are. They sound cool, anyway.

Note@mods: if such digging around is discouraged, go ahead and edit that part out of this post...

djangoc
02-28-2013, 10:45 PM
I think most developers don't mind if people datamine files, as long as its not used for hacking.

Really good OP! Can really see the game shaping up to be very fun and more chess-like.

raven2134
02-28-2013, 11:19 PM
Slimsy you've been a beast on the forums. Good job, I love this thread <3. Having all that art visible is awesome. Link has been added to the mother sticky thread!

Slimsy Platypus
02-28-2013, 11:34 PM
Don't give me too much credit - while John was mending the servers I had to get my Banner Saga Fix in somehow. I'm just grateful there is so much epic swag to gather!

sweetjer
03-01-2013, 05:38 PM
hear hear, Slim you've been rocking out some great posts lately, this one included. Thanks!

Slimsy Platypus
03-08-2013, 05:08 AM
Fixed a ton of incorrect info in here and added some developer quotes - oops!

Alejandro Mackgyver
03-16-2013, 10:23 AM
As a newbie to the forums and someone who is hungry for information on some of the up coming classes, I really appreciate this summary thread. It gave me a good hours worth of content to peruse over.

+1 usefulness, -2 procrastination (penalty)

mcloud357
05-21-2013, 08:56 AM
very good topic to refer back to.

Wordplay
09-01-2013, 06:33 PM
We now know that the Hunter is a promoted unit of the Landsman base class (can't remember the thread) and what the Landsman and the Hunters' abilities are from the new playthrough video.

Apparently the Landsman can pass through friendly units.

Slimsy Platypus
09-02-2013, 10:07 PM
We now know that the Hunter is a promoted unit of the Landsman base class (can't remember the thread) and what the Landsman and the Hunters' abilities are from the new playthrough video.

Apparently the Landsman can pass through friendly units.

Thanks! I have not been around as much lately but appreciate the help! I've updated accordingly!

Slimsy Platypus
10-08-2013, 06:02 PM
We recently got a glimpse of two of the new characters that we'll be playing with in Chapter 1 of the Banner Saga! This was a brief visual bit in a YouTube video released by Austin Video. The video can be found HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VF8c0BhkH0E#t=64). Thanks Aleonymous for the tip!

Here we can see the Wardog's stats and below him the first exposure of the Spearmaster class! The stats are quite interesting compared the units we already have at our disposal!

http://s10.postimg.org/5ifcn9ma1/Wardog.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/7i7t8wtz5/spearman2.jpg

AnotherPersona
10-08-2013, 06:40 PM
Oh muh gerd. I wants.

Wordplay
10-08-2013, 08:37 PM
I suspected that the Wardog might be even more of a glass cannon that the Warmaster. I wonder what the minimum willpower on the Spearmaster is? If it's low, then there may not be much to choose between Spearmen and Raiders.

Aleonymous
10-09-2013, 01:42 AM
The Wardog (rank-1) stats sum is 2 points higher compared to the other Warriors' now in Factions (I remember it from my 10/15/3/2/1 Warhawk). I wonder if this boost is because (1) it's a different game, (2) this guy, Hakon, is a "special" character, (3) he is equipped with some "item" granting this bonus.

On the other hand, the Spearman's (rank-3) stats sum is equal to the Raiders' now in Factions (28+Rank), that making sense since they are both human males.

I also wonder if these units' barrack's looks are the "normal" ones (i.e. the look they'll have in Factions), or special ones for the particular characters of the Saga they portray. I remind you how Egil & Iver, whose classes are Raidmaster & Strongarm respectively, looked nothing like the corresponding Factions units.

netnazgul
10-13-2013, 11:55 AM
do not forget, that MP stats are whole different than in Saga. So we really get nothing from a look on those stats :)

Guğmundr
10-13-2013, 12:29 PM
do not forget, that MP stats are whole different than in Saga. So we really get nothing from a look on those stats :)

Although, the stats seem to usually be pretty close. At least, close enough to ensure that the unit's role in combat is similar between Factions and the Saga. I remember Arnie saying a while back in chat that the Wardog's max strength is supposed to be the highest of the Warriors, so I would be surprised if that was nerfed much for Factions.

raven2134
10-14-2013, 12:30 AM
I duno Gud, Saga has had no real balancing. I mean they just played it by ear and guessed what would probably make it playable.

Arnie
10-14-2013, 10:49 AM
What an awesome post. I shall use it to reference stuff myself. :)
As Raven and Net say don't pay too much attention to the stats on the Wardog and The Spearmaster. The Saga just underwent it's first round of balancing the other day and beyond that these are specific characters, not just class units, so they will be tooled a bit different in the Saga. Some classes are OP/UP in the Saga, and meant to be so.

I could go on and on, but we're doing the final IGF submission build today and need to get back to it. Wish us luck!

Aleonymous
10-14-2013, 11:45 AM
I could go on and on, but we're doing the final IGF submission build today and need to get back to it. Wish us luck!

Luck? What luck? Don't know anything about that, and you guys shouldn't care about it anyway :) It's a deterministic course of events that has led to your game being the Best, the GOTY, the what-have-you for all of us! But, if you insist... gl hf! :p (with no need for gg wp ;))

Slimsy Platypus
10-15-2013, 01:09 AM
Another interesting note that I haven't seen any discussion on is Iver...

In the Pax Demo videos (for example #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E0rhoN1Eog I spotted an interesting item:

http://s13.postimg.org/uxidsl7nr/iver4.jpg

we see Iver clearly use the Strongarm's active ability "Battering Ram", although Iver does not have the conventional artwork of the Strongarm that we know and love from factions

http://s2.postimg.org/8btver1dl/Iver1.jpg

Here's Iver's portrait in the Pax Demo

http://s24.postimage.org/mdayefyud/Shieldbanger_potential_promo.jpg

Here's an image that was throw in the end of a Kotaku article without any description of what it may contain, but we now know this is our boy Iver. You can check out the article here: Kotaku: The Art of the Banner Saga, One of the Most Beautiful Video Games I've Ever Seen (http://kotaku.com/5987200/the-art-of-the-banner-saga-one-of-the-most-beautiful-video-games-ive-ever-seen)

http://s2.postimg.org/6dhdlg2s9/Iver3.jpg http://s18.postimg.org/6iq6y1fop/Iver2.jpg

When comparing Iver's artwork with the old Shield Wall in an image provided in an early Kickstarter update, you can tell it's a spot on match.

Here's what we know from Stoic:

In this thread (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?580-Suggestion-New-Unit-Ideas!) Alex said "the Shield Wall is now called the Champion"
14-03, 18:56 Arnie: Remaining units not yet seen are: Wardog / Eagle Eye (interesting one there) / Grudgewielder / Champion. Champion will be first
29-03, 09:04 Arnie: Champion is a SB [Shieldbanger]
14-03, 18:56 Arnie: In my mind the new Eagle Eye and the Champion are going to be favorites
Now the plan to bring the Wardog, Eagle Eye, Grudgewielder, and Chamption into Factions got temporarily derailed when the focus was shifted back towards Chapter 1 of the saga, so those items may no longer be relevant. However, the interesting questions this information raises are:
- Has the original scope of unit types been re-evaluated by Stoic, including the number of units in the single player?
- Will we have alternate artwork for various characters of the same class in the single player?
- Or least excitingly, Is this simply not having the Champion's active ability implemented into the demo version of the game?

Let the speculation commence! :)

Aleonymous
10-15-2013, 04:39 AM
I, too, was troubled by that. I guess it's what the man (or the varl, or the woman) has got inside, and not the accessories, that make the ability! Actually, just the generic SB's shield suffices to shove people around ;)

A similar discrepancy applies to Egil, the boy-Raidmaster. He does bear the trademark iron shield of RMs, but wields not an axe, but a short-sword. That's perhaps a good thing, because it seems to mean that Stoic's sprites/animations etc can mess with the characters "accessories" making vanity customizations easy. So, it's not just the colors that change, but also the arms, shields and faces!

Returning to the Champion, there has been a lot of misty implications about what his ability does. Here are some enigmatic messages from the chat archive:

26-03, 22:11 Arnie -- The Champion poses amongst his other friendly units, daring any foe.
29-08, 16:33 raven2134 -- there was something outlandish said here regarding the champion // turns out it wasnt entirely a joke
29-08, 19:08 hreinnbeno -- That the ability is autowin

It's really not clear at all to me, but it does have something about it. Actually, between the four remaining Factions-clases (Champion, Wardog, Grudgewielder, Sharpshooter), it's the only really vague ability. The ShSh's we've seen, the GW's is something inversely proportional to the STR loss, the WD's is a head-butt thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-GtpM9F_Lo).

Wordplay
10-15-2013, 04:44 AM
I noticed that ability in the playthrough, and assumed that Iver was just an example of alternative artwork for the Strongarm. I thought that this seemed pretty plausible, given that Egil, appearing in the same video, looks different from a normal Raidmaster. However, with most of the characters that we've seen so far, the difference is limited to swapping out the heads, and maybe some of the incidental decoration. Iver goes further...

I agree that it looks as though Iver's art was originally supposed to be used for the Champion/Shieldwall (it is a pretty near dead on match). I can think of several possibilities. The most likely of which are either:-

1) Iver's class was changed to Strongarm in playtesting, because it worked better for his role in the story and the early battles.

2) Alternatively, Iver is still a Champion in the Saga, but Stoic swapped his class to Strongarm, for the videos only. Perhaps because Stoic weren't ready to reveal the ability of the Champion. After all, they were already revealing the abilities of the Eagle Eye/Sharpshooter, the Landsman, and the Hunter.

3) Just maybe, it's either possible to respec classes, or Iver goes through/can go through a story event that causes him to change his class. If this is the case then it implies that the Champion ability has a very high level of difficulty to use effectively (as Stoic locks it from the first part of the game).

In any event, I don't suppose that we'll know before the release of the single-player. Stoic are holding their cards pretty close to their chest on this one...

I feel that we should be able to work out the abilities of the Wardog, Grudgewielder and the Champion by extrapolation from the rest of the classes, given that we now know the ability for the sharpshooter.

Of the warrior class abilities, two synergize closely with the passive, the Warmaster's and the Warhawk's, and the other does not; the Warleader. The last animation update to the kickstarter shows the Wardog headbutting to use its ability. I've wondered if the Wardog's ability is to stun an opponent, but that seems rather similar to the skystriker and the provoker... unless maybe it also damaged the Wardog. I'd be willing to bet that the ability is a control/support type though, like the Warleader. I find the Wardog frustrating; we have the most information about it, but it remains an enigma to me. All I can think of is that there must be some kind of reason for that ridiculous strength... (even if it's as low as the Warmaster's, say that's still pretty high, and the Warmaster has good reason for having such high strength). ... A thought just occurred to me... maybe the Wardog can shut down active abilities. A hit from the Wardog, 'stuns' an opponent limiting it to strength or break...

I'm pretty sure the Grudgewielder has an active ability that cares about how much damage the Grudgewielder has taken - Stoic have dropped some pretty heavy hints... Maybe it also or alternatively, cares about which unit did the damage. Perhaps triggering it allows the grudgewielder to do as much damage as has been dealt to him, instead of applying his strength score. Perhaps it can even ignore armour. That would be a vexing unit. If mob it to kill it quickly, then you still wind up handing your opponent turn advantage. I guess a better way to deal with it would be to use control tactics to shut it down - pull it in with a Provoker, bind in in Skystriker traps, or push in over the coals in the Great Hall with a Strongarm.

This makes a lot of sense if true, because in that case you want the unit to take damage in the mid-game, and Shieldwall can help keep it alive once it has, so it would synergize to some extent with the passive ability (the Thrasher could be said to be a similar case... which leaves the backbiter as the odd man out amongst the raiders, as his active will usually put him so far forward, that he's unable to benefit from its passive...unless you're running more than one). If I'm thinking along the right lines, then the Grudgewielder is a potentially lethal archer hunter, and a good soft counter to Warrior rush tactics (as raiders will usually take massive damage from these, but survive).

As for the Champion, the Shieldbangers are breakers/control-support par excellence. All three revealed excel in taking moves away from your opponent - directly in the case of the Provoker, by moving a unit in the case of the Strongarm, and by making an attack too costly in the case of the Shieldmaster. Now both the new name for the Champion and the original name suggest that it cares about being in a team. A champion is someone who fights on behalf of others, and the shieldwall will fail without strong teamwork. If I had to guess I'd say that the Champion can take attacks/damage on behalf of another unit. I think that this would work something like the Provoker and Warleaders' abilities in that the effect is static, but the range is increased by the ability. For rank 1 the Champion (A) would actually have to be standing next to the unit (B) to activate the ability. When the unit (B) is attacked, it's treated instead as an attack against the Champion, armour and return the favour both applied.

This would make some sense in line with the speculation above, as it's not a straightforward ability (so would make sense to restrict it from Iver at the start of the game whilst new players learn the ropes). It synergizes well with return the favour, and the control theme of the Shieldbangers. It would also be pretty big news - that ability would turn the metagame on its head. It would work well for Warrior-rush, and brilliantly for protecting archers.

Edit: Ninjaed by Aleonymous... that extra info on the Shieldwall/Champion seems to support my guess...somewhat.

Incidentally, whilst we're guessing abilities, I'm pretty sure that the Beserker will be even more of a glass cannon than the Warrior, and that it's passive ability will allow it to attack twice in one turn. I thought I'd made the guess before, but I don't think I posted it... Reason being, on the art linked to beserkers, the beserker wears no armour, and always carries two weapons. The beserker of our history was also a lightly armoured shock troop.

I'd guess the Spearman's passive is linked to it's reach, or maybe damages units that get too close to it... Say one point of damage to close to it's base, increased in the case of the Spearmaster.

Aleonymous
10-15-2013, 06:49 AM
Sorry for the ninja-ing, Wordplay! :D

Concerning the demo unit-types, I does make sense for them to "hide" the champion's true ability if that is somehow related to the story or the development of that particular character (i.e. Iver). Also, perhaps it's possible to switch the class-types of your units within the same base-class, by spending some renown or under particular story plots, e.g. like activating "Birthsign Stones" as in TES series.

I will comment on your speculations for the unit types:


Wardog (WD): Something like a "stun" or a "knock-back" is surely related to this head-butting. I don't know about limiting the use of target's active abilities, it seems a little cruel. However, making the target unable to move, or unable to attack, or (temporarily) damaging his EXertion and thus the WP use, are interesting ideas. I also liked the idea of receiving some damage from the ability-use; it helps balance the unit. If the WD is indeed the highest-STR unit, then giving him an ability that adds to that would be too much...


Grudgewielder (GW): I am not sure if the GW's ability will depend on ARM or STR damage suffered. I always think his ability as an "inverse Puncture". On the other hand, if it works that way, it's perhaps the only active ability that scales with other attributes. Note: Most active abilities depend on other attributes but their mechanic is simple, e.g. "Do a regular attack on X with 100% chance and add Y to STR". Here, this Y seems to depend on the current state of the unit... As for keeping track of actually harmed to GW, I believe this is tricky to implement and it also makes the ability useless (or limits it) if that unit died. Finally, I believe that armor-bypass abilities (BF, SI, Tp, BoP/SnB/RoA) are generally OP, so I would suggest that they limit them.


Champion (CH): This idea of yours is really interesting -- That you activate it on an ally (or on a radius around you), and every attack targeting an ally inflicts its damage on the CH (?) or the CH lends some of his ARM to the allies (?). I can naturally synergize with RtF too. However, anything close to this does seem quite OP, and quite autowin, as they say. Interesting nonetheless.


Beserker (BS?): The double-attack idea fits the lore and concept-art perfectly. It does seem ridiculously powerful though, being able to have the WH's active for a passive! Well, it all depends on the stats too. Also, his extra low ARM would make him a one-time shooter. As a passive, I recall something said about the BS's attack knocking back the enemy, or the attack-STR increasing if you take steps towards your enemy (i.e. start turn away from him).


Spearman (SP?): The attack range of 2 tiles is almost certain; don't know if he is unable to attack at range of 1-tile though... That would be interesting! Can't tell what the passive would be, but I'd guess its something like puncture, or like HI but hitting only enemies behind the target. Another idea would be something like RtF, but for the STR, i.e. each time a melee enemy engages and attacks you, they take a 1STR damage. The lore behind that is that they get poken by the spear as they walk up to you. Finally, about possible active abilities, I recall Arnie saying something (not final) about pulling an enemy towards you and sending him back in initiative (like "inverse FA") at the same time:
08-07, 19:01 Arnie -- We have one Spearman ability slated (not set in stone) to pull a unit towards him then knock the enemy back in initiative 1,2 or 3 places.

stoicmom
10-15-2013, 12:18 PM
Luck is wished to you three amazing devs!! :D

LoliSauce
10-15-2013, 04:18 PM
Having the Grudgewielder's ability be based on how much damage he's taken is great. It turns him into a priority target (like armor breakers) that you can't just cripple and ignore for turn disadvantage.

Also, originally when I hear the name Champion, it makes me think of someone who inspires others to do better, like a classic paladin shining an aura upon his nearby allies. Having him tank damage in place of them does seem extremely fitting for a Shieldbanger though.

As for the Wardog, I'm not so sure it'll be something as simple as a stun or knockback. Those have already been done, and the stun in particular would be a little too good, considering how much work you have to put into a Skystriker's stun. Diversity has always been a key focus for class design with the Stoic guys (something that I can't praise enough).

Finally, just to be sure I'm on the same page, the girl from the PAX demo was a Sharpshooter class, right? The "shoot through all enemies in a straight line" ability or something to that effect?

Aleonymous
10-15-2013, 04:25 PM
Finally, just to be sure I'm on the same page, the girl from the PAX demo was a Sharpshooter class, right? The "shoot through all enemies in a straight line" ability or something to that effect?

That's her, Loli -- Sharpshooter -- Her Thread the Needle ability does a normal archer STR-attack on all units (enemy and ally?) in a straight line of 5-tile-range from the ShSh with a 100% chance, while adding a 1AB damage afterwards... It will surely require tweaking for Factions, because it's like an in-line Tempest with a pinch of Sundering-Impact! Check it out in this PAX demo video, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-E0rhoN1Eog#t=249) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-E0rhoN1Eog#t=345).

Wordplay
10-15-2013, 05:22 PM
Wardog (WD): Something like a "stun" or a "knock-back" is surely related to this head-butting. I don't know about limiting the use of target's active abilities, it seems a little cruel. However, making the target unable to move, or unable to attack, or (temporarily) damaging his EXertion and thus the WP use, are interesting ideas. I also liked the idea of receiving some damage from the ability-use; it helps balance the unit. If the WD is indeed the highest-STR unit, then giving him an ability that adds to that would be too much...

Indeed - if even if these abilities aren't for the Wardog, I would be surprised if we don't see this sort of idea on some units... maybe the mender. I'm not sure if limited actives is too mean, but I do think that it might be considered 'unfun'... and if that's the case it won't be in the build.

On the Champion, I imagined that you'd designate the ally, and then every attack targeting that ally would instead hit the Champion (probably counting the Champion's armour value), but there could be similar implementations... The quotes that you've found make me wonder though... maybe it works like a reverse Hunter - forcing everyone to attack it. I do think we can't be that far off on the Champion... but I feel like I'm clutching at straws on the Wardog.


Incidentally, unless I'm much mistaken, we were told that there would be 5 new base classes.... We know of four; Beserker, Mender, Spearman and Landsman. Now we've seen art for male and female menders, so I think that there was some speculation that there might be more than 1 Mender class. However, given the variant art that we've seen, I now think that there's probably only one Mender class, with male and female representatives.

If I'm right, any ideas on what it might be?

LoliSauce
10-15-2013, 05:53 PM
Ah, thanks Aleo. I ended up seeing your similar post in the Bowmaster balance thread first and ended up replying there.


And was it really said that there were going to be 5 new classes? For some reason I thought it was just four.

Wordplay
10-16-2013, 03:32 AM
Yep, in fact I checked back, and Alex is quoted as saying that in the first post of this thread.

Aleonymous
10-16-2013, 04:33 AM
I believe the Male & Female Mender are to be separate base-classes :confused:

Stylistically, they look very much alike (robes & staff) but I don't know if their abilities will be very different. Nevertheless, when considering "magical abilities" the number of possible implementations really explodes! :) Browsing around these forums, or the Steam ones, you can find myriad proposals of Mage/Druid/Witch/Wizard/Sorcerer-like abilities (e.g. elemental attacks: fireballs, lightning, wind-gusts, earth, water or control & command fauna/flaura) and Healer/Cleric-like abilities (e.g. heal, curse, inspire-allies etc). Actually, it makes sense for the Male abilities to be offensive, while the Female ones defensive/passive :rolleyes:

quartex
10-16-2013, 08:42 AM
Stoic has said in the past that Mender abilities won't be big flashy damage dealing magic abilities (the lightning bolt was an exception - since it looked cool in the trailer). So less like Menders shooting fireballs, and more spells to boosting allies. I think in-combat healing is also unlikely - Stoic has said it would just slow down combat. I am looking forward to the Menders' abilities and think they could be an interesting support class.

Tatski
11-06-2013, 12:46 AM
I found something on the new website that caught my attention, http://stoicstudio.com/game-overview/ says that "Embark on your epic journey with a variety of characters from 7 different classes" this could mean that we won't be seeing one base class on TBS or one of the base class will branch out to an entirely different class (flavorwise) when promoted. If my assumptions are correct there are 8 base class, Warriors, Shieldbangers, Raiders, Archers, Landsmen, Spearmen, Menders, Berserkers. Perhaps Spearmen belong to Landsmen or Mender base class? What d'you guys think??

LoliSauce
11-06-2013, 02:11 AM
Each base class has a unified gender and general appearance. Spearmen, Landsmen, and Mender have already shown to be completely different sprites, so it's much more likely that the "7 different classes" is probably just an early guess on total that isn't quite accurate anymore.

Aleonymous
11-06-2013, 04:54 AM
It's a little baffling, this explicit mention of "7" as the exact number of classes :confused: To be frank, I was anticipating the "Factions 4" plus five more: Landsman, Speardudes, Menders (male & female) and Varl Beserkers. How this dropped from 9 to 7, I don't know. I have two theories: (1) The male & female Menders are considered as one class, perhaps with no "base unit" -- just promoted sub-classes that share a passive ability. (2) Varl Beserkers might have been dropped, pushed back to Saga#2, or they're just not playable classes, i.e. they appear as enemies or AI-controlled allies only.

Also, I am not really hoping that the new classes will be as developed as the "Factions 4". That means that I'm not expecting 3-4 subclasses, for all subclasses, to appear in Saga#1 straight off. There's a mention of "over 25 playable characters" in the new website. Only counting the "Factions 4" amounts to 16 characters (counting also the 4th "mystery" subclass per base-class: GW, ShSh, CH & WD), which leaves about 10 characters from the other 3-5 new classes; so it's just 2-3 characters/promoted-class per new base-class.

Finally, I'd like to note that we got the name of one more promoted-class of the Landsman base-class: the Warden. The character is called Eirik and we can tell he belongs to the Landsman class because of his resemblance of his pose to Rook (http://www.playerattack.com/imagery/TheBannerSaga-Rook.png)(minus the horn, bow & quiver etc). From the name, warden, I can speculate that his ability will be something defensive and possibly ally-targeted.


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99633386/TBS_Rook_Eirik.png

Tatski
11-06-2013, 08:50 AM
It would be a shame if they dropped Berserkers, It's nice if they added at least 1 additional Varl base class for variety. I know they've shown separate sprite for landsmen,spear dudes, M/F menders and berserkers. I don't expect all additional class can be promoted to 4 advanced class too. Hopefully that 7 thing is a typo :)

quartex
11-06-2013, 11:30 AM
I think the 25 characters is referring to the number of characters in the single-player plot that we will be controlling, (like Rook, Alette, etc.) not the specific amount of different units that are in the game.

The base units alone will have 5 classes per type (we've seen 4 per type in Factions and I know we're getting one more for each type), so that would be 20 classes, just among the base types. With a bunch of new types coming in, I hope we get a lot more classes to play with.

Tatski
11-06-2013, 12:58 PM
Well at least we have 2 confirmed upgrade of the landsman, Hunter and Warden, I wonder what the pure upgrade is called, Landmaster? :))

Guğmundr
11-06-2013, 01:14 PM
Well at least we have 2 confirmed upgrade of the landsman, Hunter and Warden, I wonder what the pure upgrade is called, Landmaster? :))

I don't know, but I'd say that's a good bet! Either that or "Landsmaster". Makes me wonder if there'll be a "Mendmaster"... ;)

Actually, do we know for sure if there will even be "master" promotions for the new classes? I mean, it would make sense for the trend to continue, but it will be interesting to see whether it does or doesn't.

Wordplay
11-06-2013, 08:37 PM
Came to comment on the new info on the landsman - unsurprisingly Aleonymous got there first. :)

I would add, it seems very likely that this is a class, and not a position, as all the other characters are listed with a previously known class, except the narrator, whom I believe is a special case.

Incidentally, I'm not sure it's the best place, but whilst I'm here, I'd like to take the chance to compliment Stoic on their new website. Very pretty.

Tatski
11-07-2013, 09:34 AM
I don't know, but I'd say that's a good bet! Either that or "Landsmaster". Makes me wonder if there'll be a "Mendmaster"... ;)

Actually, do we know for sure if there will even be "master" promotions for the new classes? I mean, it would make sense for the trend to continue, but it will be interesting to see whether it does or doesn't.
Well I think Stoic mentioned long ago that they plan on keeping pure upgrades for each class (Maybe they were referring to Factions 4 pure classes, since not all were released at that time). I'm hoping that they do so with the remaining classes, I'm very curious about the "landmaster's" active ability since they mentioned that pure classes' ability will feel like a direct upgrade or a skill that will best complement the base classes' passive ability.

Aleonymous
11-07-2013, 10:03 AM
I'm very curious about the "landmaster's" active ability since they mentioned that pure classes' ability will feel like a direct upgrade or a skill that will best complement the base classes' passive ability.

Indeed, that was --partly-- the case with the "Factions 4":

Shieldmaster -- Bring the Pain is an improved version of Return the Favor (more AB to the attacker)
Warmaster -- Sundering Impact is an improved version of Heavy Impact (more damage to adjacent enemies)
Bowmaster -- Bird of Prey is an improved version of Puncture (more range -- it could do more damage at the same range, mind you)
Raidmaster -- Stonewall is not a direct improvement of Shield Wall, in the sense that it doesn't grant any bonus to adjacent allies.


Now, Landsmen have the "Light Step" (move thought allies) passive ability... How could that be "extended" with the Landmaster's ability? Move allies in your turn? Move through enemies too?

LoliSauce
11-07-2013, 10:47 PM
How about simply a bonus of some sort based on how many panels you moved, or even a bonus to allies that you move through? There's a lot of ways you could incorporate mobility into an active skill.

Tatski
11-09-2013, 01:09 AM
Assuming that 7 base class is final for TBS. Looks like we wont be seeing Berserkers. :( Based on the trailer and what stoic released, we have yet to see Berserkers in action.

Aleonymous
11-09-2013, 05:26 AM
Tatski, I think we are gonna see Beserkers afterall! :) There was a character portrait released with the original announcement, behold Bolverk the Beserker:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99633386/TBSF_bolverk_DownSized.png

Also, I think the footage from the announcement trailer were kinda oldish too, meaning that perhaps not all new units were "polished enough" (at the time) to be revealed.

EDIT -- Link to download the portraits is here (http://triplepointpr.com/dl/vsevil/TheBannerSaga_PressKit_11.08.zip).

Tatski
11-09-2013, 08:33 AM
Awesome! So we're getting at least 8 base units, Menders and Spearmen saw a bit of action on the trailer. I was concerned that they dropped it. Can't wait!

Slimsy Platypus
11-09-2013, 10:00 AM
Behold a sneak peak at a new upcoming class from the website revamp... queue the Warden!

http://s10.postimg.org/szxut95a1/warden.jpg

quartex
11-09-2013, 11:15 AM
I love the art for Bolverk the Beserker. I especially like how he's sawed off his horns. It makes him seem ever more savage than the other Varl.

Myll_Erik
11-12-2013, 11:52 AM
Awesome info! Thanks for getting all this together!

Arnie
11-13-2013, 10:51 PM
I love the art for Bolverk the Beserker. I especially like how he's sawed off his horns. It makes him seem ever more savage than the other Varl.

The berserks all break their horns off for story reasons you'll find out.

Aleonymous
11-14-2013, 03:06 AM
The berserks all break their horns off for story reasons you'll find out.

I guess it's also practical. Imagine having several of those berserking giants banging their heads (or was that the Wardog :p) together? Their population would have died out long ago due to poked eyes and extensive head injuries, so there would be no new units for us! :)

Myll_Erik
11-15-2013, 05:11 PM
We've got more surprises in store too!

Slimsy Platypus
11-15-2013, 07:07 PM
This speaks for itself - stealthy addition I noticed to the site today...

http://s23.postimg.org/b88emkc23/warden2.jpg

Wordplay
11-22-2013, 10:39 AM
Check out the new travel trailer for some more information.

We appear to get confirmation of the spearmaster class (widely speculated, never before confirmed as far as I know). The breakdown of the spearmaster and wardogs' stats, information about items...

And most interestingly, a hint at units promoted beyond rank 3, or at least capable of using abilities above rank 3 (check out the stat screen for the spearmaster, top line).

The effects of an item, a unit specific promotion, or rank 4 promotions across the board? Personally I'm inclined to the unit specific theory...

quartex
11-22-2013, 11:29 AM
FYI - The spearman unit was also shown very briefly at around 1:06 in this trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF8c0BhkH0E

This was from Austin Wintory's Facebook page. Hopefully we'll get more video of the music recording sessions later.

Aleonymous
11-22-2013, 11:42 AM
OK, here are the Spearmaster's stats (glimpsed here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKr4onLjgqo&feature=player_detailpage#t=147) @2min27sec, for a very fraction of a second).


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99633386/TBSF_Spearmaster_RoughGuideTravelTrailer.png

This character is called Tryggvi (Ref: Tryggvi the Pretender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryggvi_the_Pretender)) and has a cool mustache and hairstyle too. The latter is anime-like :) Notice that Rank 1/4 purple-stat? :confused:

And, here are the Spearmater's stats (glimpsed here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF8c0BhkH0E&feature=player_detailpage#t=65) @ 1min05sec)


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99633386/TBSF_Spearmaster_AwintoryVideo.png

This character, Ludin, has been present at stoicstudio.com, here (http://stoicstudio.com/characters/).

The stat's sum match, i.e. Tryggvi's (rank-1) stat-sum is two points lower than Ludin's (rank-3).

Slimsy Platypus
11-22-2013, 09:38 PM
Unfortunatley we also saw this:

http://s17.postimg.org/6j288g033/Iver5.jpg

Confirming, without a doubt, that Iver is indeed a Strongarm. Hopefully this doesn't mean that we will no longer be getting our fourth Shieldbanger promotion! Will be interesting to see if there is indeed a "Champion" in our futures.

Aleonymous
11-23-2013, 05:37 AM
Confirming, without a doubt, that Iver is indeed a Strongarm. Hopefully this doesn't mean that we will no longer be getting our fourth Shieldbanger promotion! Will be interesting to see if there is indeed a "Champion" in our futures.

Dunno... We can still hope that Strongarm is just a placeholder-class for Iver, until the Champion class is finalized/balanced & revealed to us. Besides, the PGs/sprite art and the ability are not really "tied together", so perhaps this guy will be our Factions' Champion to come!

Wordplay
11-23-2013, 11:20 AM
Sorry, accidental double post.

Wordplay
11-23-2013, 11:30 AM
Sorry, I forgot that the spearmaster class was revealed previously when we got our first look at Ludin.

It looks like characters are limited to one item slot at the moment. My guess would be that if you click that 'plus' symbol, shown on Tryggvi's empty item slot, it brings up a menu of available items for you to put in the slot. We can see that the plus has disappeared on Iver once his item slot is filled. I'd guess that you can click on the item to bring up the menu to exchange items.

I suspect that we'll be seeing items in Factions eventually, once they've been balanced.

I think that we will get the Champion, in the single played at least. Wasn't the Champion referred to by Stoic recently, not long before we were discussing his possible ability?

Looking at the first fight shown in the travel trailer, I can see an ability icon active on Iver's portrait that we've not seen before (as far as I can remember). Apart from the spearmaster, all other units shown on that screen have known abilities. Perhaps this is a clue?

I wonder why the featured spearmasters have been built with comparatively low armour and high willpower? Might this give us a clue as to their abilities? Previously I have speculated that their passive would damage units that passed through a square adjacent to them (or maybe just finished on a square adjacent to them). I'd expect the Spearmaster to be able to increase this damage by spending WP (and thus function very similarly to the Shieldmaster). Or perhaps their ability is a strength based return the favour.

gaelvin
11-23-2013, 01:04 PM
I didn't notice the icon on Iver's portrait, but could it maybe be from an Item?

Aleonymous
11-23-2013, 02:42 PM
Looking at the first fight shown in the travel trailer, I can see an ability icon active on Iver's portrait that we've not seen before (as far as I can remember). Apart from the spearmaster, all other units shown on that screen have known abilities. Perhaps this is a clue?


I didn't notice the icon on Iver's portrait, but could it maybe be from an Item?

After a brief chat-room discussion with Slimsy Platypus, we concluded that this debuff (negative effect) that Iver suffers must be something related to his STR being lower that his starting one. Looking at his stat-banner, you see a skull-ring symbol next to his STR. Perhaps he entered the battle already injured, or has some curse/poisoning on him? All the opponent units are regular ones and none of them has such an ability. Also, it must not be related to morale, as Iver has the debuff on the high-morale example, but not in the low-morale one...

Wordplay
11-23-2013, 11:48 PM
That's a good bit of detective work.

Hmm... curious. Well, no doubt all will become apparent in about 8 weeks.

Slimsy Platypus
12-03-2013, 12:15 PM
We have now been exposed to 19 total characters from the single player Saga! (which is now up to 22 following the edits!). It's pretty amazing to see the variaety we are going to get to play with in combat! And there's even a bit more to come!

(?)Raider
(2) Thrasher - Mogun (travel trailer), other unnamed (travel trailer)
(1) Backbiter - Onef
(1) Raidmaster - Egil
(1) Grudgewielder - Ekkill

(?) Warrior
(1) Wardog - Hakon, as seen in the media gallery
(3) Warhawk - Bersi, Gunnulf (presskit), Sigbjorn (filename of site image)
(?) Warleader - potentially (1) we see with Ubin (narrator) in the Factions tutorial
(?) Warmaster

(?) Shieldbanger - potentially (1) we see with Ubin (narrator) in the Factions tutorial
(1) Provoker - Fasolt
(1) Shieldmaster - Mogr
(2) Strongarm - Iver, Griss
(?) Champion

(?) Archer
(1) Skystriker - Oddleif
(1) Siege Archer - Ysra
(?) Bowmaster
(1) Sharpshooter - Alette

(?) Landsmen
(1) Hunter - Rook
(1) Warden - Eirik

(1) Spearman - Tryggvi (travel trailer, also see as a spearmaster)
(1) Spearmaster - Ludin

(1) Berserk - Bolverk (presskit)

(1) Mender (possibly?) - Eyvind (travel trailer)

Aleonymous
12-03-2013, 01:08 PM
Great write up, Slimsy. Some notes & corrections:


Berserker -- His name is Bolverk (release PressKit portraits -- Tatski, is Tatski :D)
Tryggvi -- He is also a Spearmaster (according to Travel video-trailer)
Thrashers -- One of them is called Mogun (in the above video)
Warhawks -- I think we'll see another two WHs. A green one called Gunnulf (release PressKit portraits) and a red one call Sigbjorn (its the filename of the red-WH at the classes webpage)
Typo at champion ;)
Eyvind the Mender? :) Juno will surely show up, too, no?

Slimsy Platypus
12-03-2013, 03:59 PM
Great write up, Slimsy. Some notes & corrections:


Berserker -- His name is Bolverk (release PressKit portraits -- Tatski, is Tatski :D)
Tryggvi -- He is also a Spearmaster (according to Travel video-trailer)
Thrashers -- One of them is called Mogun (in the above video)
Warhawks -- I think we'll see another two WHs. A green one called Gunnulf (release PressKit portraits) and a red one call Sigbjorn (its the filename of the red-WH at the classes webpage)
Typo at champion ;)
Eyvind the Mender? :) Juno will surely show up, too, no?


Thanks for helping me clean up a bit! And whose to say Tatski isn't a berserker? :)

Esth
12-18-2013, 09:51 AM
In the pre-order "Insane Viking" video, it appears that Ludin (not Tryggvi!) uses his ability to push back a Dredge 1 tile and then to the side 1 more. The sideways motion seems like it could be due to terrain. The Dredge takes damage in this process 1, then 2, before dieing. Ludin appears to be level 1. This could be very interesting information for the Spearmaster active. I must say it seems to function similarly to how I thought it would, but stronger. Though I sort of figured the bleed would occur on the enemy's movement, not the pushback.

Slimsy Platypus
12-18-2013, 01:34 PM
In the pre-order "Insane Viking" video, it appears that Ludin (not Tryggvi!) uses his ability to push back a Dredge 1 tile and then to the side 1 more. The sideways motion seems like it could be due to terrain. The Dredge takes damage in this process 1, then 2, before dieing. Ludin appears to be level 1. This could be very interesting information for the Spearmaster active. I must say it seems to function similarly to how I thought it would, but stronger. Though I sort of figured the bleed would occur on the enemy's movement, not the pushback.

I also saw that in the video. I think the movement by the recipient is the dredge slinger passive ability which causes them to run away after being struck (as we saw them do that in the combat trailer as well).

Definitely interesting info on the Spearmaster - 1 damage on initial hit, 2 damage on knock back, and 2 damage from "bleed"

hreinnbeno
12-18-2013, 03:23 PM
I also saw that in the video. I think the movement by the recipient is the dredge slinger passive ability which causes them to run away after being struck (as we saw them do that in the combat trailer as well).

Definitely interesting info on the Spearmaster - 1 damage on initial hit, 2 damage on knock back, and 2 damage from "bleed"

I think the initial hit is strength armor hit and then papa. In this case the spearmaster had 3 strength and the slinger had 8 armor. So it would elicit 1 damage (so it is probably the same as bird of prey in that it always does some damage). I could be wrong though, time will tell.

Esth
12-18-2013, 06:05 PM
I also saw that in the video. I think the movement by the recipient is the dredge slinger passive ability which causes them to run away after being struck (as we saw them do that in the combat trailer as well).

Definitely interesting info on the Spearmaster - 1 damage on initial hit, 2 damage on knock back, and 2 damage from "bleed"
You are probably right about the sideways movement. At first I thought that maybe the pushback always tried to do the full range, like the movement caused by Malice. If it is due to slinger "passive", it seems much more in line with what i expected. A very strong and interesting ability, but dependent on how far you can push and the opponent's repsonse.