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Kord
03-02-2013, 10:50 AM
Hail friends! Lend me your ears. I wish to make a warband of the most honorable of fighters, and we all know that to fight from a distance is the mark of a coward!

I jest, good sirs, I jest, lay down your weapons. I didn't mean to insult your womenfolk. But I seek glory in battle, face-to-face with my opponent, blood spraying in my beard. I seek warriors that, if they should die, do so on the advance, not retreating to a better firing position. I tire of relying on these treacherous tactics, hiding behind traps and walls of brave warriors!

So tell me lads. Sit down and share a pint with me. Tell me of honorable factions that you've seen and who made them up. Or if you yourself lead such a group, share with me your secrets!

I have a plan of my own (http://tbs-battle-planner.herokuapp.com/#W1sicm0iLDEsMTEsMTEsW1siYSIsMTEsNiwxMl0sWyJzIiw4L DYsMTJdLFsidyIsNSw0LDExXSxbImUiLDIsMSwzXSxbImIiLDM sMSwzXV1dLFsicm0iLDEsMTEsMTEsW1siYSIsMTEsNiwxMl0sW yJzIiw4LDYsMTJdLFsidyIsNSw0LDExXSxbImUiLDIsMSwzXSx bImIiLDMsMSwzXV1dLFsic2EiLDEsMTEsMTEsW1siYSIsMTQsO SwxNV0sWyJzIiwxNCw4LDE1XSxbInciLDIsMiw5XSxbImUiLDA sMCwyXSxbImIiLDEsMSwyXV1dLFsidGgiLDEsMTEsMTEsW1siY SIsMTEsNSwxMV0sWyJzIiw5LDgsMTJdLFsidyIsNSwzLDEzXSx bImUiLDIsMSwzXSxbImIiLDIsMSwyXV1dLFsiYmIiLDEsMTEsM TEsW1siYSIsOCw1LDEyXSxbInMiLDEyLDgsMTJdLFsidyIsNCw 0LDExXSxbImUiLDMsMCwzXSxbImIiLDIsMSwzXV1dLFsid2giL DEsMTEsMTEsW1siYSIsMTEsNywxMl0sWyJzIiwxNSwxMCwxNl0 sWyJ3IiwzLDIsMTFdLFsiZSIsMSwwLDJdLFsiYiIsMSwxLDJdX V1d), though it will be some time before I can implement it. What are your thoughts?

Flickerdart
03-02-2013, 11:20 AM
The two Warrior, four Raider setup is well-known for being very powerful, as you can crush your opponent with pure Strength. I've faced one and eked out a narrow win, but it was close.

The problem with an all melee build is you make yourself very vulnerable to positioning issues - your units are likely to be bunched up, and an enemy Warrior or Siege Archer can take advantage of that and wreak havoc. Keeping at least one archer will help with things.

piotras
03-02-2013, 12:05 PM
Steady, young grasshopper. There's much to learn before you can stick the pointy bits into the squishy insides of yer enemy's archers. Being aggressively patient is what you must learn to be sure the blood on yer beard is that of your enemy.

Ok, but seriously your staring build looks very good :) However, if that's your fist go at all-melee you'll see it's a definitely different game. I play an all-melee as well currently as a 'inspirational break' and it's really fun (well besides THs fcuking up :P). Two RM's is a great backbone for the build and you mid-game archer harassers. Actually I play something very similar, but use a second TH instead of a BB as a damage sink and passive-armour-enhancer (if you know what I mean). All other units are the same (I use WM or WH, depending on the day), but I got a bit higher armour and lower exertion in general. On the other hand I completely see the need of having some extra mobility and I hope that your BB will serve you well. I did consider him for a while myself but decided to go for extra stats which suits my build more. Also, the WP on your Strongarm seems a but high for a dude with no exertion (battling ram is hard to execte for a proper benefit, since it's so easy to protect from it). Although, I'm no authority on this and I wish you can prove me wrong about it :) It would be great if we could use this thread to share our thoughts on all-melee builds. I will gladly drop in at later point to share some tips on my optimisation progress.

So, how I'm currently tacking the all-melee approach:

- I guess it can be used as a blitzkrieg build with BBs and Varl Warriors at the back but I've decided to go the opposite direction, go high armour and try to milk the shield wall passive as much as I can
- my units don't do much break (RM's 3+1, TH 2+1) by on the other hand all mu units have 11-14 armour besides the WM/WH, which with the addition of shieldwall passive is a armour-break-nightmare and some builds just aren't equipped in enough 'can-opener' units to deal with that OR need to use up all their archer's WP, which in both situations is good to see. So my aim was to outstat the opponent with time.
- a good benefit of an all-melee is that you don't have to worry about defence as you would with a typical balance builds, which need to worry about 2 archers and a fragile warrior at the back as they advance
- on the other hand, you need to advance, or 'push' with your RMs to create a scaffold where other units can safely join and thus proceed, so SS, SA or a strongarm's push can really mess you up. My first move is usually enough to get in range with RMs, but to be at least 5 tiles away from enemy archers when I move my raiders into the second row. It's usually enough for the to get close without using any WP when RMs get out of the way.
- obviously formations and blocking is a must and leaving the formation should be done only when there's no better option, so watch out for that BB when he's out of the phalanx
- if you plan to use your RM's to go for archers mid-game plan it wisely, because when they advance you're left without any proper armour breaker on the fontline.
- I used to use to strongarms for even more armour but the problem I have currently is mobility, thus addition of WM/WH helped in those games where I'm simply out-runned, although the beauty of all-melee is not to have any units jerking around cowardly at the back, it's more about gaining the turn advantage with all of your units chipping in every turn rather than waiting for better conditions to arise for one large hit
- some other tips for your current build would be to use your raiders to create much better Battling Ram situations and rather than trying to flank with your WH also look into opening the centre by moving out your raiders to the flanks so your WH can march in and clean up
- as mentioned earlier, there's less to protect so try to gain turn advantage asap, so if reasonably safe try to introduce WH into the fight and push forward with your raiders harass archers/block units willing to maim you WH

.... anyway, I'm sure nothing what I wrote here is new or revolutionary but hopefully someone will find it helpful :) Go give it a go and share your views on the all-melee!

Kord
03-02-2013, 01:33 PM
Aye, I believe I messed up on that strongarm's stats, updated that and their initiative order (I love this battle planner thing haha). I'm looking at the BB mainly because placing him on the flanks and threatening archers has been extremely useful in the games I've played. If they slip up or are pushed into a bad spot, he can maim or even kill archer in one attack. He tends to force my opponents formations to spread out a bit. This can be really risky, because he's often in a spot where he can't help the main group and giving him such high strength/exertion leaves him with low armor and makes him more of a kamikaze attacker. But having him harassing without actually attacking has proven pretty effective so far. Once the enemy is worn down or focused on my other guys, the backbiter swoops around and wreaks havoc.

Thanks for the tips! I can't wait to get the team going to try them out.