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View Full Version : Fire Pit Map - Comments and Complaints



Budikah
03-02-2013, 04:35 PM
Alright... so... mostly a complaint.

For starters - I really like the idea of having maps with obstacles on them - particularly fire. The issue with this map in my opinion seems to come from the deployment and players picking the "smart move".

1. If both players deploy on opposing sides of the fire pits then the first 2-3 turns end up being spent just running around the firepit hoping for your opponent to make a positioning mistake.

2. If both players deploy on the same side things heat up a bit and the map actually works well. You have a bloody melee with a few archers using the firepit as a movement deterrent.

Long story short - I love every map but this one I am more than likely to avoid playing by any means. I like to play a quick game and thus I play with 30 second timers... but when you are playing a map where you either run around until somebody makes a mistake or you charge into a disadvantageous position (fire is a brutal chokepoint) then more often than not I'll just walk into the fire and give the enemy the win.

TL;DR
The fire on this map is a great idea but it's positioning seems to force both players into some sort of "happy feet" scenario where they dance around the fire. My suggested fix? Turn the firewall to be horizontal rather than going the length of the hall or perhaps just have two separated fire pits instead.

Jachymor
03-02-2013, 04:55 PM
I think it is nice as it is. And I must say, the dancing around the fire isn't only a good metaphore, it is a vital part of the strategy. The map becomes extremely funny with Strongarms pushing your varls over the fire. The damage!

piotras
03-02-2013, 05:05 PM
I also wish it was twisted by 90 with a empty spot in the middle or 'of a shape of 5 on a dice' as suggested somewhere else. This one is just annoying. Extremely annoying.

RadioactiveMan
03-02-2013, 05:29 PM
I like this map as is. I always set up with my force split on either side of the fire pit, and I greatly enjoy surrounding and thumping an opponent who sets up only on one side or the other! :)

franknarf
03-02-2013, 06:02 PM
Sure, I like the map as-is, too, but I'd be interested in trying a variant of it like the five-dot one. Maybe Stoic could add some experimental variants like this to the friend-match map list (while keeping them out of ranked-game rotation until/unless they prove to be balanced/fun/whatever). They could get such maps tested faster than via their QA server (thanks to the larger number of players) while allowing us to see if these variants really are better in some sense.

piotras
03-02-2013, 06:31 PM
Don't like the fact that we are keeping things that only some people like while others strongly disagree. I like the firepit idea (my Strongarm does as well) but this map is really getting on my nerves and the initial unit regrouping is just ridiculous. Several times someone told me in chat "go right"... so what's the point? If the pit would go from left to right with a space in the middle or some other centre-based variation the map at least would be played as intended without any 'unwritten rules' of going right or pre-match communication...

Vexbane
03-02-2013, 07:41 PM
I like the concept of this map. I have no issues with it. It is the only map that effects your tactical play and people complain about it? So what it takes a little more time to get into battle. This is a tactical strategy game. If you want something to play that is over in a few minutes go play another genre. The only problem I have with this map is that someone can kill them self to deny you a kill. That is the only lame thing about this map that should be changed imo. Leave it as is.

I think some variants of this map would be great as well as more maps with obstacles etc.. that effect strategy. Just being lined up in the open is really boring match after match imo and a big reason I have stopped playing a lot. The map should play a vital part of your strategy and be positive and negative to some group set-ups.

Jorgensager
03-02-2013, 08:30 PM
I like the idea of the fire pit going in the direction it does, but have to agree it's a bit frustrating to have a 30 minute game where the first half was unit movement. I think it would have been cool if it were moved two tiles "left". Though not making sense context wise (why would they have the firepit non-centered, right), it would make the choice of main battlefield side more obvious but still allow for flanking/other shenanigans on the other side.

raven2134
03-02-2013, 10:23 PM
My thoughts on this map...I have a love-hate relationship with it.

I love the map, but I groan every time I play someone good on it (for good reasons).

1. I can never predict how to play on this map, the firepit really raises a big ? for me. Is he gonna cross? Am I gonna have to cross it?
2. It really changes my approach when playing the game, compared to any other map.
3. Every time I play on it, it's always something new and unexpected.

Well, there just my 2c. It's the map that hurts my brain D: :D...and drives me closer to becoming bi-polar.

What I don't like though, are the corners. Too tight to flank, and the pockets serve campers to well.

erom
03-02-2013, 10:29 PM
Agreed, the same fire pit with a bit more room to maneuver at the edges would be a better map. I thought part of the problem was that this map was created early in development (for the tutorial), and thus the art is a little bit smaller than the rest of the maps, forcing them to keep the combat area fairly tight.

Budikah
03-03-2013, 01:31 AM
Like I said - I really enjoy the concept of the map and as Raven said - it drives you to think.

My problem comes down to the fact that the fire promotes a very defensive and slow style of gameplay. I don't have a problem with slow/tactical gameplay but I do have an issue when in the first 2-3 turns all that has been exchanged are minor potshots with arrows. I just believe that as it is currently designed it just moves the slowest of any of the maps. I can fit a game in before work knowing it isn't going to take me more then 20-30 mins for a match but when this map hits I feel as if you could be there all day.

TL;DR
It isn't a major issue and not everyone takes issue with it but I believe it could be done better in the spirit of keeping the match times relatively the same between maps. It just takes too long to get to the action unless you charge ahead like a fool.

Chaokel
03-03-2013, 04:26 AM
An easy solution, remove the blocks (or shrink it) in the centre top and centre bottom of the map. Now instead of having a tiny two square choke at the end of the fire strip you have a much larger 5(or 4, or even 3) square opening.

Kazthefirst
03-03-2013, 07:50 AM
I like the Firepit map.

The last time I played it, my opponent started on the other side and we started the angling for position. He tried to angle some undamaged archers next to it with the idea that they'd be safe, and so I took my Warhawk into the fire and killed both with one use of Tempest.

It was an excellent way to start off the match.

Jawbone78
03-03-2013, 02:38 PM
I like the firepit map in part because the pit is not just an obstacle - it makes sense in real world terms for it to be where it is, in the direction it is, with squads starting where they do.

And even if it would present a completely different tactical obstacle if it was oriented the other way, I also like the element of uncertainty it adds in games, and the total variation in gameplay based on how you line up. It can play like two totally different maps.

Wordplay
03-03-2013, 04:49 PM
I really like the firepit in the Great Hall as it is, though I wouldn't be averse to a map with a horizontal firepit.

I like channelling my opponent into the choke points, and charging over the coals in the late game.

I wouldn't like the choke points to be shortened, unless that was an alternative map, that stayed in rotation with the current one. The reason being it's the only map at the moment that has choke points.

Perhaps the real issue is that we can't pick which maps we're going to fight on? I for one, dread being deployed on the Harbour map (with the posts) and have to be pretty careful with initial deployment with a couple of others.

eduran
03-03-2013, 05:24 PM
It's the only map that is different from the rest and forces a notable change of tactics. For that alone I like it.

Jawbone78
03-03-2013, 05:53 PM
I for one, dread being deployed on the Harbour map (with the posts) and have to be pretty careful with initial deployment with a couple of others.

That's actually my favourite map, for the reasons you've stated. I'm pretty sure that's the map I've been the most successful on, because those posts seem to help me keep my damagers safer, longer. Stops almost everything but backbiters.