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View Full Version : Concerning Ranks and Power Level and ELO



Grits
03-07-2013, 11:39 PM
Perhaps the max power level of a team should be set at less than 18. This might prove more interesting as you would be forced to have a limited number of rank 3 units...say two or three. Or, you could have four rank 3's and two rank 1's etc. Not only would this expand the strategic possibilities, but it would allow more players to obtain a top-tier build in a reasonable amount of time.
This also goes hand in hand with the idea of only allowing 'max-power' builds to take part in ELO ranking and stats. Seems like that is the only way to have a fair playing field.

raven2134
03-08-2013, 12:12 AM
I propose max power of 12 on versus!

Grits
03-08-2013, 12:33 AM
Yeah, that would be good. This would also take care of another problem I see. If 18 power is allowed, then it's just a big rush all the way to 6xrank 3 and all other units feel like a waste of time. However, at 12 Power max, other ranks still have a home. Even base units might find a use!

I propose....max 12 power versus AND no stats or ELO for power less than 12. Roll this out in a couple of weeks once people have a chance to rank up.

mrpresident
03-08-2013, 12:36 AM
As interesting and cool as this idea is, no one would ever promote certain classes if this were the case for all games, like the thrasher for example.

Still, having tournaments based on max team power levels instead of all rank 1 or rank 2 etc could be potentially done.

Grits
03-08-2013, 01:06 AM
Why would no one promote a thrasher? We'd have to see how it played out. And, if a unit gets left in the dust...buff him/her.

Vaidency
03-08-2013, 03:30 AM
This sounds like an interesting idea from a strategic standpoint. If they did something like this, though, it might be appropriate to let players switch a unit freely between the different ranks they have purchased.

That way, if I promoted my strongarm to level 3, I could freely switch him between level 1, 2 or 3 depending on what seemed appropriate for my team build, instead of having to build three separate strongarms to achieve that same flexibility.

raven2134
03-08-2013, 07:27 AM
That's an interesting point. Perhaps the unit rank could be something modifiable from proving ground, but of course you need to unlock the last promotion to get to rank 3. And switching between ranks means giving up the extra stat point/s and ability level, like how ranks really work anyway. I'd still be for that since if you wanted more than 1 of a rank 2-3 unit, you'd need to raise another anyway.

SoMuchSwag
03-08-2013, 08:31 AM
Wouldn't being able to lower a rank 2 unit to level 1 make it easier to rank up to 3 though?
I suppose they could just make kills only affect the current rank you have assigned.

Grits
03-08-2013, 12:10 PM
Yes! Great ideas. Choosing a rank would be a must. Anything under what you have reached should be accessible.

mrpresident
03-08-2013, 02:17 PM
The reason no one would promote a thrasher is because they have the weakest ability scaling in the game, 1 extra willpower for 1 more random ar/str damage. Which is fine as long as there's different tournaments at various power levels so that there are sometimes 18 power tournies as well as 12 etc.

I concur with being able to reduce unit ranks temporarily for tournies, we're already running into that problem with the current tourney being restricted to rank 1, and players no longer able to use their favorite units because they've promoted them to rank 2.

Grits
03-12-2013, 02:37 PM
This was brought up before, but I'm seeing more of a need for it now. I recently upgraded my SM to rank 2. Now I am unable to use him at rank 1 for tourneys or for power 6 games. I'm hoping this will change and we will be allowed so slide the rank up and down as needed. I really don't want to have to train three of each advanced unit. This will be even more important when playing power 12 games etc. What do you guys think?

Dysp
03-12-2013, 03:23 PM
Sounds like a good idea, be it slider or different rank load-outs.

The only downside I can think of is that this removes the only renown dump I'm aware of. Once a person has all the max units they want, they'll just collect tons and tons of renown. Although, I suppose that would happen eventually even with separately ranked units.

netnazgul
03-12-2013, 03:32 PM
The only downside I can think of is that this removes the only renown dump I'm aware of. Once a person has all the max units they want, they'll just collect tons and tons of renown. Although, I suppose that would happen eventually even with separately ranked units.

There will be whole new classes in the future, needing more renown to be spent

gripho
03-12-2013, 05:50 PM
I concur with being able to reduce unit ranks temporarily for tournies, we're already running into that problem with the current tourney being restricted to rank 1, and players no longer able to use their favorite units because they've promoted them to rank 2.

Yeah, I got to do some additional non-tournament games last week during the middle of the tournament because I stupidly promoted my warmaster to level 2 and couldn't use it anymore in the tournament...

KamikazeDurrrp
03-12-2013, 06:28 PM
I would prefer it they just limited the competitive matchmaking to just all rank 1, all rank 2 and all rank 3, since these are the supposed standards that are going to be used in the tournaments anyway. Afterwards, they can have whatever they want as "casual matchmaking" or just "find me a match" where that would be the free-for-all, no consequences (to "competitive" ladder at least), but renown farming place we all know and love.

Stoic also needs an options where you can change the rank of the unit that you have. You still have to "promote" in order to access the higher ranks, but if you have a rank 3 and you want to make it rank 1 and vice-versa for my proposed matchmaking. Why should I be limited to rank 3 on that unit when I could have used it for rank 1 matches, etc. etc.

I guess I wouldn't mind if they had a max 14 since it's going to be a long time before anybody is going to reach all rank 3 units anyway and it might be interesting to see which units people choose to be their rank 3, but from what I've seen it seems to be that the disparity between even a 2 rank difference is turning a lot of people off, turning matchmaking into literally a ghost town sometimes. However, it was incredibly easy to find a tournament match, which I know can be due to the whole competitive aspect of the tournament, but can also be attributed to the fact that you know you're getting a fair fight. If we're going to have these rank restrictions on the tournament, why not have it on competitive ladder as well? I'd just like to see it for a week as see what happens. Of course, this is banking on if they ever make a system where you can freely switch between ranks (if you unlocked those ranks for the unit of course).

Vexbane
03-13-2013, 01:53 AM
+1 to support this netnazgul.

I feel you should be able to slide rank as well as change classes.

raven2134
03-13-2013, 07:23 AM
I'm merging this thread cos it's practically a duplicate :).

Grits
03-19-2013, 01:47 AM
I like idea of 'power 6' rather than rank 1. This adds some flexibility to the builds and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Looking forward to some 'power 12' tourneys.

StandSure
03-20-2013, 08:54 AM
I'm glad I looked for this thread...I have been struggling with when/if to promote my units to level 2 and can't bring myself to pull the trigger. I played a guy last night in a ranked match who had upgraded his Shieldmaster to L2 and regretted it because he had to play with a L0 archer in order to bring himself back down to power 6 and find even matches.

I really like the proposed idea of being able to "downgrade" a promoted unit because it allows players to experiment with the advanced levels but doesn't force them into situations where it becomes difficult to find ranked (read "fun") matches.

I don't play enough to really amass a large roster of units that I can swap out whenever I need a certain build, so any change to a favorite unit is a big deal to me, and the current system seems to discourage leveling up. Maybe this works itself out over time as more people upgrade, but a means to level down, even if it came at a price, would remove some trepidation.

netnazgul
03-20-2013, 09:12 AM
I really like the proposed idea of being able to "downgrade" a promoted unit because it allows players to experiment with the advanced levels but doesn't force them into situations where it becomes difficult to find ranked (read "fun") matches.

Devs say that it's a very time-consuming feature to code and is not needed for single-player, so they can't afford to lose this much time on it. Guess that at least until single player release it won't be implemented.

StandSure
03-20-2013, 09:24 AM
Devs say that it's a very time-consuming feature to code and is not needed for single-player, so they can't afford to lose this much time on it. Guess that at least until single player release it won't be implemented.
Hmm, surprised this isn't a simple reversal of the promotion system, maybe with a stat reset. But I'm certainly no programmer, and I'd rather have them working on the Saga anyway. Good to know.

In the meantime I will keep my team at P6 until either my curiosity becomes too great or it is obvious there are a lot of odd-power players out there. :)

delta_angelfire
03-20-2013, 09:54 AM
Devs say that it's a very time-consuming feature to code and is not needed for single-player, so they can't afford to lose this much time on it. Guess that at least until single player release it won't be implemented.

also, why fix something when instead people could spend 10 bucks to buy renown and get experienced units? you know they will.

Leartes
03-20-2013, 10:29 AM
Hmm, surprised this isn't a simple reversal of the promotion system, maybe with a stat reset.

I have no clue of how they coded it, but I can imagine they have it coded in a way that assigns a fixed rank to a unit. This stuff is stored somewhere in some database that needs work as well as an up and downgrade option. Also you need additional stuff for bought max level etc. I suppose it'd be easy to code a hard downgrade but you'd have to pay to upgrade again :D


also, why fix something when instead people could spend 10 bucks to buy renown and get experienced units? you know they will.

rank 1 team costs close to nothing if you have played the game for some time and/or spend a bit of money. The real investment is higher ranks and decision if you want to keep a team in between rank 1 and 3. I can imagine the future will shape out with two main power levels, 6 and 18. One open for all and one as a goal to work towards, less experimentation and a crazy different meta-game from the rank 6 game.