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Grits
03-20-2013, 10:31 AM
Hey all, I like the idea of an exact power match for ranked matches, however, it's already apparent that it divides the player base to much. Not only does this mean very long Q times, but it's bad for moral and could also allow people to snipe players and possibly cheat with friends.

This is my humble solution to the 'problem'.

http://i.imgur.com/TM19gud.jpg

The idea is that for ranked games, you must choose from two or three power levels. This will still allow good flexibility in team building, as it doesn't restrict you from using any combination of ranks to achieve the correct power. This will also be better practice for tournaments. If people want to try out their power 7-11 teams, there is always the quick match. If, this is too restrictive, simply add another choice in-between, but I think 2 or 3 options is best. This would also give people something solid to build for, and prep them for tournament play. Thanks for reading ;)

raven2134
03-20-2013, 10:45 AM
I said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm all for capping at power 12.

Now...I'm just getting worried there are too many button thingies :p.

franknarf
03-20-2013, 10:49 AM
+1. I haven't tried the ranked matches and so can't attest to how much the wait times matter. I can imagine this being used for cheating, but I don't see how sniping would work/be bad...? If a player gets sniped, that just means his or her Elo was inflated, right?

Even five levels might be fine, I think: 6, 9, 12, 15, 18. The UI you suggest would not make sense with the way things are set up now, however. If your team is power 6, it's power 6. Why even show the other button? They'd just have to grey out the banner when you aren't on a proper power level...dunno.

Leartes
03-20-2013, 10:59 AM
Why not have the buttons color-coded in how fast average queue time is at that lvl currently?

StandSure
03-20-2013, 11:20 AM
Why not have the buttons color-coded in how fast average queue time is at that lvl currently?
Yeah, otherwise why have buttons? It's going to match you with whatever power level your team is set to. Really what you want is some indicator showing what type of team could get a match, not extra options. Maybe just a window showing what power teams are playing right now (like "6,7,9,12")

If my team is power 6, I don't need to choose "6" from a menu.

Vexbane
03-20-2013, 11:31 AM
Why not have the buttons color-coded in how fast average queue time is at that lvl currently?

This is a great idea. Some kind of power level indicator lobby window (without player names). So you can see, for example, that there are 30 people with power 6, 10 with power 7, etc... So you know what power level will get you a game the quickest and you can adjust.

The only specific button I feel there should be is power 6 (all lvl 1 units only). This is a common deck set-up so I feel there would not really be a separate the player base issue.

Grits
03-20-2013, 11:32 AM
The buttons are there to make it clear that you need that exact power level. But yeah, we could just have a notification that pops up when you click the banner if you have anything other than a power 6 or 12. It would say 'Hey! You must use either a power 6 or power 12 build to play ranked matches you!'. That would def. make more sense than adding UI elements as I have done ;P

Power 6 or 12 is more fun and versatile than 'all rank 1' etc. Power 12 allows for wild differences in build structure while still remaining balanced. This is why Raven and I agree that power 12 is the best ;)

If you allow power 18, it will just be a rush to the top and make everything other than a rank 3 irrelevant.

Grits
03-20-2013, 11:46 AM
Actually, after thinking on it some more...why not just lock ranked matches at Power 12. Maybe after a few more weeks when people have leveled up. This will give new players a goal to shoot for and keep everyone on the same page. I don't like allowing power 6 in the long term, as veterans can still headhunt newbies.

The tournaments can be used to fool around with lower power builds. Since they change every week, you could make the power level anything you want between 6 and 12 and rotate each week. This might keep everyone on their toes!

Shiri
03-20-2013, 11:57 AM
Allowing rank 6 is important in the long term because it takes quite a while of playing to get all rank 3 guys, but a full rank 1 team can be bought for not too much so people can immediately start playing on an even footing if they wish.

franknarf
03-20-2013, 12:23 PM
@Grits re rank 12 only: I think if you've got a power 6 team, you're not a newbie any more. And, besides, it still takes ages to get to six rank 2's if you're experimenting with different builds along the way. I can't even afford it myself, as I've spent everything expanding my roster of rank 1's so far.

Or, as netnazgul's signature says, "Sensei play their games on team power 6. Any higher is for rookies"

trisenk
03-20-2013, 01:22 PM
+1 for levels for ranked matches. 6, 9 and 12 should be sufficient for now.

Grits
03-20-2013, 02:19 PM
^^ True enough! ^^

Arnie
03-20-2013, 02:24 PM
I played two ranked matches last night and got them rather quickly. Have people been having a hard time finding them?
We figured if you didn't want to wait them you'd just play a quick match.

Shiri
03-20-2013, 02:25 PM
Arnie, it probably depends a lot on what power you're using.

Tirean
03-20-2013, 02:29 PM
If I was to run a power 13 team for example, would I ever find a ranked game Arnie? I feel the answer is no :D

netnazgul
03-21-2013, 01:23 AM
I played two ranked matches last night and got them rather quickly. Have people been having a hard time finding them?
We figured if you didn't want to wait them you'd just play a quick match.
Thinking that it was during the time the matchmaker was broken... ;)

Grits
03-21-2013, 01:36 PM
As it is now, it's potentially breaking up the players into 12 different tiers. Not so good.

franknarf
03-21-2013, 01:49 PM
6...18 = 13 tiers, no? ;)

Hikaratu
03-24-2013, 08:08 PM
I registered specifically to come address this sort of thing, the suggested proposal by the op is great, really it's just the idea that needs to be here and stoic can decide how to tier the levels out easily enough from there if they like the idea.

In addition I think it would be nice if we could change higher ranks into lower rank modes or something. So I can use my rank 3 as a rank 1 but make him a 3 again should I want to do a higher league again later rather than needing to have 3 different versions of every unit for every unit I plan on using in a team composition? If I wanted to run two of a unit in a setup I'd have to have 6 of that unit alone realistically if I wanted to play the gambit of ranked content. As it is currently I feel somewhat penalized ranking my guys up until I have a fully upranked team(which I didn't consider at first) so having whatever off levels and not a ton of spare renown for the moment locks me out of really getting ranked matches going. I don't care for quick match if I want to just play I'll do a friend match, although it's good it's there so that I can get renown to fix my team levels for the moment.

If this doesn't happen because the current model encourages buying renown I don't approve but do understand it as a business move in that case(Coming from a person who has already shelled some money at them for a great game).

franknarf
03-24-2013, 09:43 PM
FYI, to anyone who comes by this: If I understand correctly, the devs do not plan to implement something along these lines. The reason is technical (it takes quite a bit of coding and testing and is not needed for single player) not financial. I think most of the commenters above have heard this via chat already, but no one's updated the thread.

Here's a newer proposal: http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?1428-Balance-at-Different-Progression-Levels Welcome to the forums!

Arnie
03-28-2013, 07:52 PM
Very cool I happened upon this forum post again. In the next build we will be implementing this very system...kinda. So here's how it will all shake out:

-Quick Match: Will find you the closest match we can get you in Power Level then Elo. Good for testing out new builds and building Renown.

-Ranked Match: Will be for Power 6 or Power 12 only (like the original post above). Nothing in between. We want power 6 for young players to be able to get ranked and then work on their roster before hitting with the big boys at Power 12.

-Tournaments: Will only be Power 12 after the build. Power 12 is the Banner Saga: Factions official game and we have no plans to make it go higher. We like Power 12 because it gives a reason to use all ranks, 1, 2 and 3. Also, like the way we designed our stats, we like how you will need to pick and chose how you assemble your team. Try all rank 2's or mix it up!

Before long we will wipe some of the Global Hall of Valor rankings and start them fresh now that we have a final system. We will save the old rankings as "Season 1". Lots of fun stuff on the way in the next build. :)
Anyway, good thread and we really hope you like the newly implemented system.

Butters
03-28-2013, 10:47 PM
Very cool I happened upon this forum post again. In the next build we will be implementing this very system...kinda. So here's how it will all shake out:

-Quick Match: Will find you the closest match we can get you in Power Level then Elo. Good for testing out new builds and building Renown.

-Ranked Match: Will be for Power 6 or Power 12 only (like the original post above). Nothing in between. We want power 6 for young players to be able to get ranked and then work on their roster before hitting with the big boys at Power 12.

-Tournaments: Will only be Power 12 after the build. Power 12 is the Banner Saga: Factions official game and we have no plans to make it go higher. We like Power 12 because it gives a reason to use all ranks, 1, 2 and 3. Also, like the way we designed our stats, we like how you will need to pick and chose how you assemble your team. Try all rank 2's or mix it up!

Before long we will wipe some of the Global Hall of Valor rankings and start them fresh now that we have a final system. We will save the old rankings as "Season 1". Lots of fun stuff on the way in the next build. :)
Anyway, good thread and we really hope you like the newly implemented system.

Wow, thanks for that. Lot of good news in there.
Maybe this deserves its own thread ? I'm sure a lot of people will miss this. Or maybe the build is coming soon anyway ? :)
I'm so pumped that all tourneys will be 12 from now on. Opens up so many possibilities ! The 6 tourney was starting to feel cramped, with a lot of people gravitating around the same builds.
Any ETA on the Season 1 wipe ? So we can make sure we look our best at the moment the table is set in stone !

trisenk
03-29-2013, 06:00 AM
Anyway, good thread and we really hope you like the newly implemented system.
I like it already! :D

Grits
03-29-2013, 11:50 AM
Well that's awesome ;).

Beorn
03-29-2013, 06:11 PM
These changes all sound great.