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View Full Version : Quick match playing against ranked and elo gain/loss bug



HeadOpener
03-21-2013, 03:44 PM
So I had two matches in a row confirmed that I was playing in quick mode and my opponents were in ranked. I lost the first to Micahh whom I am ranked higher and have higher elo and they gained 2 elo for the match whilst I lost nothing (being in quick mode I assume) My second match I won and my opponent again ranked lower than I lost 16 elo whilst I again did not change.

I am assuming this is a bug with the new update on the mm system?

Micahh
03-21-2013, 04:01 PM
Confirmed as far as I was involved, I only gained 2 points for my win.

KamikazeDurrrp
03-21-2013, 04:15 PM
If this is a bug it should go in the help and support section in the forums but either way this should be looked at and addressed.

raven2134
03-22-2013, 11:48 AM
Hi guys, I'm not sure about the Elo gain stuff. Maybe there's something bugging out (like the time when people were gaining big.

However, I do know that matching up between Quick Match and Ranked Match is intended. This is, again, so that the playerbase can be kept intact and matchmaking maximized. In addition, the quickmatched player is only matched to the rank player if the quickmatched player satisfies the criteria for the ranked player. (if you get what I mean).

Then yes, only the ranked player should see any changes from the results of the match (and fairly so, since that was his/her choice).

erom
03-22-2013, 01:34 PM
Hm. Strictly speaking this could lead to Elo inflation if the ranked match players tend to win these matchups. Probably not as much of a problem as the normal inflation from people losing a bunch and then quitting that all Elo systems are vulnerable to, but still warrants monitoring.

Tirean
03-23-2013, 08:35 AM
Being matched with unranked players makes the rankings pointless.. you play a ranked match to expect a competitive game not get matched vs someone who is testing/ not good enough to play ranked.

Really disapointed that you make it look like we have 2 seperate queues but instead we have a queue where you put all your points on the line for very little and the queue where you test stuff. Makes the rankings pointless.. should just remove them and keep it tournament only if this is how we are going to do things.

Vexbane
03-23-2013, 10:18 AM
I am going to agree with Tirean here. If I am playing a ranked game I expect to be matched up against someone playing a ranked game. Not someone testing a deck or a new player. You invalidate the meaning of rank when you allow both ques to merge.

That would be like me getting in the ring with Mike Tyson. I get a beating and he gains nothing from the win. It is even worse if you lose vs the unranked player as you will lose ELO and he gains nothing. This needs to be changed asap.

There needs to be an area for new players to play each other. There needs to be an area for people to test/not play ranked and there needs to be a ranked area. All these areas need to be separate from each other. Yes dividing the player base will mean slower que times until the player base rises, but you will be matched against an opponent fairly who has the same intentions as you.

You just invalidated the whole rank system. Good job.

raven2134
03-23-2013, 02:09 PM
Hmm, mind if we avoid the sarcasm? Tirean too, :p I know you better than to just phrase it that way.

I can understand the frustration, but for a team that is working hard and with nothing but the best intentions, I'm not sure why this has to be the way the concerns are voiced. I mean it's not like they implemented the system with the intention of "invalidating the whole rank system" or "making ranking pointless"

Stoic realizes the importance of matchmaking, and in the soonest possible timeframe implemented a system because of the players' feedback. It's apt to remember that when something is done quickly and with less time to consider, it's possible for certain things to slip by. And while I really do not mean to raise or create a controversy, or perhaps mis-step my bounds as a moderator, as a community member, I think it's a bit unfair that the criticism is so harsh, when it was also the community that voiced how matchmaking needed to be addressed and augmented IMMEDIATELY.

You can't expect an ideal system and also have it implemented within 1-2 weeks :).

Just my 2c

Vexbane
03-23-2013, 05:36 PM
I did sound harshly and for that I do apologize.

I agree that you cannot have your cake and eat it too (well most of the time). So I do appreciate that stoic implemented fair matches asap. Though imo this should have been like this at launch.

I do not feel they did this intentionally at all. They did something as fast as they could to appease us. For that I thank them.

Now though that change has brought about new issues and problems (surprising I know) which also has to be fixed. To me the game is still in beta phase so these issues are to be expected. I do also realize that they are primarily focused on the single player aspect of the game and are working very hard. Again I appreciate that as well.

So a bit of an overreaction on my part, but again I am just trying to help. I know of no games that mix ques like this nor does it make any sense to me. Hence the criticism. I myself would not mind slightly longer que times for a "fair" match-up. What I mean by fair is someone with the same intentions (rank/unranked/new player etc) and same deck strength (or not if I prefer it that way). I bet many players feel the same way. I am fully confident that stoic will find a balance and a good system in time. We as players just need to be patient. (hardest part)!

So I hope the team has a great time at PAX east and gets a well deserved break. Then they can come back and address these issues. We will live until that time. It is after all only a game.

raven2134
03-23-2013, 06:39 PM
Vexbane, peace man :). I'm just keeping things level. I understand also how much the game really speaks to one's soul and incites the flames of passion and fandom.

I hope I didn't come off as dismissive or rude in any way. That would not be my intention at all. I only wanted to put things into perspective :).

Thanks again, for being an active community member, and for all the suggestions.

BrainFreeze
03-24-2013, 05:50 AM
I don't know if that is related to quick matches, but i spotted that all my ranked matches only give me +-2 ELO. I can understand +2 ELO - I have relatively high ELO and if i defeat some guy with low ELO i get only a little bit. But how could i lose 2 ELO? I was in top 30, i played ranked with a guy who was NOT in top 20 (so his ELO could not be much higher than mine). I lost, and i lost only 2 ELO. That seems like a bug, because i heard that K-factor in TBS cannot go lower than 8.

HeadOpener
03-24-2013, 06:05 AM
Raven, thanks for chipping in and calming down a few folks ;)
I don't think anyone is meaning to come over as demanding,harsh etc as they are. It's just that because the game is ranked, and people take ranks seriously, as this is a competitive game by it's nature, you will have those that need to get a feeling of fairness or what's the point.

So I posted the thread originally assuming there was a bug, it seems not and this was the result as you pointed out of the complaints of the previous MM incarnations.I understand this is not a priority but has been done due to community demands and for that I think we are all grateful. Please don't take anything I have said or posted as a slight, I adore this game!

I think we need a few choices on game type to really solve this problem and with the low player base we have currently that could cause some delays in finding a game.But there should be a way we can as a community come up with something that could be considered fair. I mean playing a new player and stomping them is not fun for either party. So I do see the problems faced so we need to try to find an amicable solution rather than a knee jerk reaction one perhaps?

Maybe unranked <1200 elo for newer players and testing/practice (i picked 1200 randomly here depending on player base to the 1200 elo mark this might not be right)
Unranked >1200 elo for testing for higher players so not stomping new players and putting them off this game
Ranked Elo matched (regardless of power level as it was last(?) patch- thinking longer term most will play with rank 18 etc)
Ranked power match

The ranked power matched and elo match can play against each other assuming they meet the criteria for each.

If push comes to shove perhaps the unranked can also match with the ranked IF it meets BOTH elo AND power ranked criteria to do so, giving a additional option for mm to find games during quiet times if really required but assuring relative comparison.

I threw this together in seconds, so there is bound to be a flaw here somewhere but thought I could perhaps start a discussion of suggestions rather than just the current complaints?

Khitchary
03-24-2013, 06:10 AM
Personally I thought my elo was a little funny but I never thought about it too hard before reading this, I will pay more attention and report what i can see.

Tirean
03-24-2013, 06:32 AM
I still think the main issue with match making is all the power groups we can have.

Right now to balance the game between power and ELO is almost impossible and as soon as the queue times go over 30 seconds you just get everyone complaining in the chat.

All I really want right now is ranked to play ranked, unranked to play unranked and then adjust everything slowly from that.