PDA

View Full Version : Using 2 SA 2 TH 2 WarVarls efficiently



bartaxe
04-02-2013, 10:43 AM
http://tbs-battle-planner.herokuapp.com (http://tbs-battle-planner.herokuapp.com/#W1sid2giLDEsMTEsMTEsW1siYSIsMTEsNywxMl0sWyJzIiwxN iwxMCwxNl0sWyJ3IiwyLDIsMTFdLFsiZSIsMSwwLDJdLFsiYiI sMSwxLDJdXV0sWyJzZyIsMSwxMSwxMSxbWyJhIiw4LDQsOV0sW yJzIiw3LDQsN10sWyJ3Iiw2LDYsMTNdLFsiZSIsMywxLDNdLFs iYiIsMiwwLDJdXV0sWyJ0aCIsMSwxMSwxMSxbWyJhIiwxMSw1L DExXSxbInMiLDEyLDgsMTJdLFsidyIsNCwzLDEzXSxbImUiLDE sMSwzXSxbImIiLDEsMSwyXV1dLFsic2ciLDEsMTEsMTEsW1siY SIsOCw0LDldLFsicyIsNyw0LDddLFsidyIsNiw2LDEzXSxbImU iLDMsMSwzXSxbImIiLDIsMCwyXV1dLFsidGgiLDEsMTEsMTEsW 1siYSIsMTEsNSwxMV0sWyJzIiwxMiw4LDEyXSxbInciLDQsMyw xM10sWyJlIiwxLDEsM10sWyJiIiwxLDEsMl1dXSxbIndtIiwxL DExLDExLFtbImEiLDksNiwxMV0sWyJzIiwxNyw5LDE3XSxbInc iLDMsMywxMF0sWyJlIiwxLDEsMl0sWyJiIiwxLDEsM11dXV0=)
As a mediocre Player -like me- you can easily -nearly- win the tourney with a build like that described above.
It's kinda easy to use, w/o need of plenty of thinking.
Pros:

maim proof (SnB, flail, wh/wm abilities)
heavy hitting (Varls, Thrasher, SAs by puncture)
armor breaking(SAs, ThrasherFlails,WM bighits)


Cons:

WarVarls are glass cannons(despite being not totally useless, when maimed)
SAs run out of willpower fast(cause you need them as armor breakers)
Thrashers depend on RNG


Using this build efficiently on average to good Players:
First Phase (closing in):

harass/lure them out with SAs
Keep the Thrashers near the archers for protection and crippling their archers runs
watch the flanks with Varls, waiting there out of range of the hostile infantry (esp. those hostile Varls)


Second Phase(hit them all):

make sure your varls strike first
maiming vs. killing decision depends on turn order and threat (to lose a siege archer can actually be an asset for an early win)
throw all your units in, break/hit or move in a threatening position
sometimes it's worthwile to leave one wing and to send a varl into the middle second row


Third Phase(cleanup):

sucker punch the archers
go all in on the most threatening hostile unit alive (not till it's unstoppable demise, but till there is a new most threatening enemy)



Use against Tireanic builds and players:
This is highly theoretical, for these opponents have superior positioning and tactical skills. On top of that, they do plan ahead!
Recognizing:

propably you've seen their names under the top20 ranked players.
dreaded build 3SA 1TH 1 SRA 1WH http://tbs-battle-planner.herokuapp.com (http://tbs-battle-planner.herokuapp.com/#W1sid2giLDEsMTEsMTEsW1siYSIsOSw3LDEyXSxbInMiLDE2L DEwLDE2XSxbInciLDMsMiwxMV0sWyJlIiwyLDAsMl0sWyJiIiw xLDEsMl1dXSxbInRoIiwxLDExLDExLFtbImEiLDExLDUsMTFdL FsicyIsMTIsOCwxMl0sWyJ3Iiw0LDMsMTNdLFsiZSIsMSwxLDN dLFsiYiIsMSwxLDJdXV0sWyJzZyIsMSwxMSwxMSxbWyJhIiw4L DQsOV0sWyJzIiw3LDQsN10sWyJ3Iiw2LDYsMTNdLFsiZSIsMyw xLDNdLFsiYiIsMiwwLDJdXV0sWyJzZyIsMSwxMSwxMSxbWyJhI iw4LDQsOV0sWyJzIiw3LDQsN10sWyJ3Iiw2LDYsMTNdLFsiZSI sMywxLDNdLFsiYiIsMiwwLDJdXV0sWyJzZyIsMSwxMSwxMSxbW yJhIiw4LDQsOV0sWyJzIiw3LDQsN10sWyJ3Iiw2LDYsMTNdLFs iZSIsMywxLDNdLFsiYiIsMiwwLDJdXV0sWyJzYSIsMSwxMSwxM SxbWyJhIiwxNCw5LDE1XSxbInMiLDE0LDksMTVdLFsidyIsMyw yLDldLFsiZSIsMCwwLDJdLFsiYiIsMSwxLDJdXV1d)


So first, don't panic. Our build is still easy to use and very competitive.
Be on the lookout though:

SAs will pest you
WH will be flinged to you for hitting where it hurts most
thrasher's gonna thrash


Counter:

deny effective SnB by chess knights positioning
e.g. (x= your unit, y= enemy, .=empty space), try to place a cross over two units:

......
...x..
.x....
....x.
..x...
......
or deny it by cuddling (let him burn himself) e.g.:

......
...x..
.x....
....x.
..xy..
..y...
keep an extra eye on turn order and SRA/WH positions
it's insane but do it. Plan ahead, too
think about evil turn order control mechanisms
give their masterminds too many options to calculate within 30secs ( at least try to make it "choose your doom"-choices )


If or rather when you lose, go down in style:

learn as much as you can of their patterns and traps
don't give up, our build is pretty much maim proof and dangerous till all units are down
for the most resilient, try out that build and learn the weaknesses first hand


Further useful readings for tactics and strategy:

http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?874-Fan-made-Guides-%28A-library-and-submission-area%29
http://suntzusaid.com/

franknarf
04-02-2013, 11:30 AM
Hrm, don't really understand your ideas for countering after the first bullet...?

The only reliable strategy I've seen for beating it is being better. A couple top players do this with 3x SA, but I don't know if us mere mortals can count on using that as a counter.

Haeso
04-02-2013, 11:49 AM
If you stand in

xoxoxoxxoxx
ooooooxxoxx

where x = the space of one of your characters (or some similar variation) he can at best hit two units for 1 str damage or one unit for 2 break 1 str damage. Whereas a bunched up start can be upwards of 5 str damage and 4 break.


It's just a matter of making sure he can never get more than that 2 str damage or 2 break 1 str.

franknarf
04-02-2013, 12:24 PM
Those diagrams give me a headache. Try


x.x.x.xx.xx
......xx.xx

or similar please. :)

Haeso
04-02-2013, 12:31 PM
x.x.x.xx.xx
......xx.xx


= no more than 2 str damage or 1 str damage and 2 armor break.



x...x...x...x
..x...x...x...x


= only 2 break 1 str damage.

The other option (cuddling)

x = yours
y = theirs.
. = empty


.....
..yyx
..yy.
.....


He can only do 1 str damage or 2 break 1 str AND 1 str to himself.

I get the feeling you already knew all of that, but yeah. Maybe others didn't.

Tirean
04-02-2013, 12:44 PM
Be careful about walking up to someone and thinking "ha you can't hit me now" because they can do 2 options, Armor break you, or just go hit another target :D And both of those can come to a big shock if you didn't plan for it.

Also if you walk in front of an archer except a SnB to still hit you and damage the said archer. She doesn't need more than 1 str ^_^

franknarf
04-02-2013, 12:53 PM
I was asking about the bullets *after* bartaxe's diagram, and didn't know what cuddling meant 'til you explained it. Cute term for it. :) Note that a siege archer can never hit herself with coals; the range is 2-5.

Even when not facing another 2x SA, I've gotten in the habit of starting out more or less like your diagram:


....s..s..rr.hh
...t....t.rr.hh
...............

(Thrasher, Siege archer, strongaRm, warHawk)

I'm still working with power 6. I'd be curious to see what you guys think about the 12-power variation of this build. I think I'd have to hide everyone on the back row against higher-rank siege archers.

EDIT@Tirean: "except" -> "expect"

SeraphimLoki
04-02-2013, 01:37 PM
I honestly have no idea why are you writing all this. Last few days i was building my OWN team. Was trying it on quick game (not ranked) when i finally thought to myself im ready to play ranked i i though ill get challenged by different players and different teams. Guess how i was surprised when all the battles i fought today where battles against cloned teams with slight difference. I know its all about winning but guys just figure out something of yoruself dont copy others ideas from forums cuz this game will die quickly.

hovercraft
04-02-2013, 01:47 PM
I honestly have no idea why are you writing all this. Last few days i was building my OWN team. Was trying it on quick game (not ranked) when i finally thought to myself im ready to play ranked i i though ill get challenged by different players and different teams. Guess how i was surprised when all the battles i fought today where battles against cloned teams with slight difference. I know its all about winning but guys just figure out something of yoruself dont copy others ideas from forums cuz this game will die quickly.

That's why I don't play ranked/tournment, from the moment they included unranked option.
But for the sake of more interesting tournament - maybe option to be forced to change your team/random team? (from your chosen pool of say 9 warriors?)

bartaxe
04-02-2013, 02:32 PM
Thx for your insights and questions. :)

This game is about competition and this thread about strategy discussion. I like to compete in strategy games and to discuss strategy. That's the reason for this thread.

Feel free to share your ideas or questions on this build or your ways to counter it.