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roder
04-14-2013, 11:22 PM
Just wondering, seems a bit limited as to where else I can go. I came up with a few simple suggestions.

1. Training Barracks - face AI/CPU
2. Town Bar - play a gambling minigame (only small bet for distraction) & larger version of chat
3. The Arena - have dedicated grudge duels, best of 3, possibly even wager 3 renown if you win or lose
4. Auctionhouse - Buy recruits that people have dismissed, might have experience/kills
5. Prison - Place to buy recruits who have varied experience in fighting, but at cost of bail (randomized, might find discount if look at the right time)
6. Salon - More customized colors/garments/hats/hair/features/weapon(aesthetics) for your units

tanglefast
04-15-2013, 12:02 AM
7. brothel - place to check out attractive shield maidens.

Butters
04-15-2013, 02:07 AM
some good ideas.
Now, considering the very precious little dev time that can go into this in the forseeable future...

1. AI is in the works ; it's not for the short term though. It would be good to have it somewhere else than the Great Hall ; if you put the tutorials together with it people would probably actually find and play them, which would prevent many from dissing and/or giving up on the game because they don't understand it.
2. I don't really see the point in a mini game, but I do like the idea of a place with a larger chat window (I have been hoping for an expand button on the Strand chat for a while, but a dedicated screen might be more appropriate). It could also be used as a place to put announcements and links to guides and FAQs on this forum (as many people do not know about it or care to search for it).
3. You can already do that to some extent if you want to. That wouldn't be hurtful to anything as a feature, but it's hardly necessary.
4. I would not use that.
5. I would not use that either.
6. The Weaver's Hut is also in the works, hopefully with a full-blown army painter (I'd pay some more money for that). Since Saga proper will feature items, it's likely we will see them in Factions too after episode 1 is released.

Aleonymous
04-15-2013, 05:53 AM
Hello rodereve. Interesting suggestions. I'll post my comments too:

1. Yup, that's definitely bound to come sometime soon (?). I'm interested as to whether the AI will be leveled in some sense, e.g. "Easy", "Challenging", "Unbeatable" modes. Higher levels get you more renown.

2. I liked that tavern feature in the Moonstone "A Hard Days Knight" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonstone:_A_Hard_Days_Knight) game; it was generally a "cheat" to rip you off, but was fun dicing with other knights and brigands. Who knows, perhaps, while seeping your mead, someone insults you :mad: and lo, viking brawls (fists, no weapons) could take place! Another minigame?

3. You're referring to "n players, everybody against each other" (team or single-unit) matches, right? Stoic has mentioned something for 2vs2 (2 players w their teams allied, against another 2 teams allied) making it sometime... I'm in for Arena fights :)

4-5. I'll agree with Butters that there's marginally any new "added value" worth the dev-time on these features, at this moment. Nevertheless, when the Factions get some more "story-depth", possibly after the release of the Saga, perhaps these suggestions will re-emergence. ** Actually, was there any prison in the Viking-era, or they just bloody-killed criminals directly (or chopped their fingers, feet, hands, heads off)?

6. Yup. Weaver's Hut should provide that.

and...

7. Tanglefast's Brothel! Well, ain't that a place to spend your hard earned renown? :cool:

A more advanced building I'd add would be related to your units actually being harmed or killed, after each battle. E.g., kills of -5 STR (i.e. a 10STR blow on a 5STR/0ARM unit) are considered "injured" for 5 days, and kills of -10 STR and below, result in actual "deaths" of the units. In these cases, some sort of "Healing-house" and "Temple" buildings could be introduced, respectively, where you spend renown to heal or resurrect you units. Actually, on my first battle in TBSF, I wasn't sure if the units killed would live for another day... Fortunately they do! I'm sure there's a lot of space for griefing your fellow vikings with these features, but it does add some suspense to it, no?

Kletian999
04-15-2013, 07:14 AM
Adding consequence to overkills would create a huge griefing potential- building teams solely designed for overkilling other's units. Likely, some would resort to suiciding units just to keep them alive. It also completely remove (at least half of) the "fun" of playfully seeing how high you can overkill your opponent's last unit (Slimsy's 45 damage Provoker/Skystriker trap for instance)

Aleonymous
04-15-2013, 07:31 AM
It also completely removes (at least half of) the "fun" of playfully seeing how high you can overkill your opponent's last unit

That's exactly the reason: Mortality and... Fatality! :o

Now really, I agree with you that it's a most dangerous thing. Perhaps a different "perma-death" game-mode, that will be much more rewarding?

Kletian999
04-15-2013, 08:17 AM
I don't know about you, but the current system lets me AND my opponent laugh when I drop a unit to -10 or whatever to close the game. If you make it cost 20 renown to heal a unit, there's no incentive NOT to surrender before that happens. And if you don't surrender, it goes from being a shared joke to me being a jerk to my opponent.

raven2134
04-15-2013, 10:07 AM
Stoic has often said that any mechanics that will prevent a player from playing will definitely not be introduced into the game. This is one reason why units are fresh at the start of every battle in factions, and there aren't any side effects from suffering a KO.

The intent for the gamer experience is to give the players ease in playing, a smooth experience (without any ganky stalling), and positive feedback (without needing to think: crap if this guy get's killed I can't play/I'm stuck - gotta spend renown/gotta buy renown).

Aleonymous
04-15-2013, 10:31 AM
Stoic has often said that any mechanics that will prevent a player from playing will definitely not be introduced into the game.

And you're referring to the MP game, of course. Its clear to see why, just as Kletian portrayed it! As for the SP game, the Saga, I'm sure thing will get more risky there.


This is one reason why units are fresh at the start of every battle in factions, and there aren't any side effects from suffering a KO.

That part should be stressed more, e.g. somewhere in the game's intro/tutorial. As I said before, I was kinda scared of it at the beginning; but I was soon proven wrong, thankfully. Actually, I think I won my first-ever battle :)

raven2134
04-15-2013, 10:32 AM
Stoic has said perma death in SP will not occur during combat gameplay. It will be narrative based and occur based on the choices made :), not from losing a unit in a battle which can be very random.

Aleonymous
04-15-2013, 10:44 AM
Stoic has said perma death in SP will not occur during combat gameplay. It will be narrative based and occur based on the choices made :), not from losing a unit in a battle which can be very random.

That surely takes some thrill of the battle, for better or for worse... I'll take it as they serve it, no prob. Besides, if they had to additionally include the decision/outcome branches for battle-deaths, that would put another factor x10 to game's "event/complexity".

raven2134
04-15-2013, 10:52 AM
Also consider, it is not uncommon to see 1 unit left during a victory in Factions. Makes it hard to integrate permadeath when the system is tailored to encourage close matches :)

gaelvin
04-15-2013, 11:09 AM
They've also said that, unlike in Factions, wounded units in the SP will not automatically heal to full-strength between battles. That should keep the thrill in the battles even without perma-death.

Arnie
04-15-2013, 11:10 AM
Just as a note this this interesting thread, we will be launching 'City Building' for the player just after we launch Chapter 1 of the Saga. We will not be adding buildings to Strand before then.
Much, much more on this after we launch the Saga...stay tuned.

That being said, lets hear some cool ideas! If people want to start or turn this thread into a "what we want in City Building" (maybe even change the title?) that would be read by us as well. We have ideas on what we want to do, but it's always cool to read great ideas from the players and see if we can incorporate them into our design.

raven2134
04-15-2013, 11:14 AM
That's a good idea. I'll wait for permission from OP before changing title. If he agrees, it shall be done!

roder
04-15-2013, 12:36 PM
That's a good idea. I'll wait for permission from OP before changing title. If he agrees, it shall be done!

of course naman, go for it :D

City Building sounds pretty cool, I'm pretty amped for the upcoming installments of the saga. A few more ideas:

-Being able to get invaded by AI (just like the banner notification your friend challenged you, you should also be able to get challenged by AI while going through the city)
-Being able to re-adjust your formation, even if you've clicked Ready (provided you still have timer)
-Being able to move again, if you still have move space left, but not after you already perform an action (this is in case of misclick)

Aleonymous
04-15-2013, 12:55 PM
-Being able to get invaded by AI (just like the banner notification your friend challenged you, you should also be able to get challenged by AI while going through the city)
-Being able to re-adjust your formation, even if you've clicked Ready (provided you still have timer)
-Being able to move again, if you still have move space left, but not after you already perform an action (this is in case of misclick)

+1 to being attacked at random times, while experimenting in the PGs.
~0 to re-adjust formation. Make up your mind rodereve! :p
+2 (!) to move-again. For us newbies its difficult to accurately estimate the movement range of an enemy-unit when we want an ally unit moved just to block him. That often results in a totally wasted move. I know its simpler to move all at once, but...

hovercraft
04-16-2013, 12:41 AM
+2 (!) to move-again. For us newbies its difficult to accurately estimate the movement range of an enemy-unit when we want an ally unit moved just to block him. That often results in a totally wasted move. I know its simpler to move all at once, but...

I second that, it doesn't happen often but sometimes you double click and loose your unit as a consequence

Butters
04-16-2013, 01:25 AM
We're going way off topic here, but I think the move-again thing is an elegant solution against misclicked movement confirmations, which happened to me more than a few times- usually with desastrous results.

raven2134
04-16-2013, 01:52 AM
Some things I'm looking forward to:

1. Weaver's hut
2. Trophy tower
3. Building for watching replays
4. Building for chat

An idea:

5. If we're getting AI and some "single player" in Factions, would it make sense to make even the snigle player stuff work with a multiplayer context? You know, like how individual plays contribute to a communal goal. Maybe they could make players versus Dredge, and it's a war. And the impact we have on the battle with the dredge has an impact on everyone.

So there could be an area to "head into the front/frontlines" or send an expedition.

i.e. (like the dark dragon in Dragon's Dogma, or the Community Boss in Infinity blade or other games).

6. I think they have some ideas for guild play...you know, to really play on the idea or with "Factions". So maybe we could get a guild hall or something?

Maybe the player cities need to be part of a larger world, like a world map, with territory. (like Grand Knights History - Stoic, please check that out, seems like an awesome way to implement Factions!)

If things worked like this, might make more sense for there to be a capital city than a guild hall or something, and expeditions to specific fronts might make more sense.

That said, Tirean has been suggesting we need more tangible rewards in the game, from playing/winning. This is something that could also use some thought.

While I'm at it, we need some ideas for nice renown sinks. Any suggestions out there?

7. Puzzle/challenge building - fight battles with specific conditions/construct battles with specific conditions/solutions
- This is interesting, cos designed the right way, you could make this really cool, like epic hero cool playing 1 guy (or less units) to take out several enemies due to turn advantage/timing. Versus dredge, it wouldn't be hard to draw the parallels to how this is might be like analogous Shadow of the Colossus or some such game

Alternative implementation of this would be like an endless mode, with spawning enemies.

I'm just spitballing crazy stuff here.

Butters
04-16-2013, 02:51 AM
Some really cool ideas by Raven here !
First thought about 7.puzzles/challenges was "should that not be part of the Saga proper ?", but actually having such a thing in Factions would be a good way to steer the Saga single-player crowd (and their amazing numbers, no doubt!) towards Factions, which should definitely be something to work towards.

roder
04-16-2013, 11:08 AM
While I'm at it, we need some ideas for nice renown sinks. Any suggestions out there?


Really nice suggestions.

As for renown sinks, why not make some buildings unavailable at the start, and make them accessible by paying to unlock. IE. The replay buildng, you pay 50 renown to unlock. (except I think that should be accessible to everyone since its awesome lol)

Possibly even just buying random houses, and they accrue you +1 renown/day or something. That's more like SIMs or Age of Empires, but I think citybuilding is easy if its more text representation (House:3) rather than pictoral.

Aleonymous
04-16-2013, 12:54 PM
While I'm at it, we need some ideas for nice renown sinks. Any suggestions out there?

Color-variations! I'm sure its troublesome, cuz it requires artwork etc, but you can't have enough of them. I'm leaving out the { Banners / Sigils / Coats-of-Arms / Mottos } you talked about previously, as sure to come in the not-so-distant future :)

Arnie
04-16-2013, 02:34 PM
Very cool ideas here. Keep them coming!

Kriegsturmer
04-16-2013, 06:26 PM
A training hall with some training exercises along the lines of the stuff you find in chess books (ie kill their Bowmaster in 2 moves)?

Slimsy Platypus
04-16-2013, 07:22 PM
The HALL OF RECORDS!!!

At this building you unlock bits of lore as you progress through Factions. Get 1000 kills using Warhawks? Well after that battle you "unlock" or find the hilt of a broken sword owned by Gulfi, the very first Warhawk. After entering the Hall of records, you can now show the hilt to the loremaster, who will tell you Gulfi's brief tale! (hopefully accompanied by a single pane of epic 2D artwork :) ) Win 100 battles? Unlock the tale of Hrolf, the master tactician that was able to funnel his enemy to a choke point on a bridge where his 100 men took on 1000 and forced them into retreat!

Within the Hall of records you could simply view your epic battle swag (the unlocks) or just read threw the brief bits of lore. (I really like this idea because it ties back into "progressing" within the main game). Maybe you even could choose which tale to unlock one at a time so the people that play a lot (like me!) wouldn't get everything all at once when you "unlock" or purchase the building.

Slimsy Platypus
04-16-2013, 07:45 PM
THE CRAFTER'S TERRACE!

Here you can put your militia to good work utilizing their abilities for the greater good of the Faction! Each unit can be designated once to a single craft but can only be good at one thing. This could entail them spending their time at the healer's hut, the smith, the leather drying racks, or contributing to the hunting party (perhaps you have to unlock each one following the unlock of the Crafter's Terrace).

For example: say my unit, Hrathgar, goes out hunting; I can't use him in battle for 12 hours, but after enough time hunting he returns with with enough experience to give him a new optional title I could click on from the screen that pops up where you can rename/dismiss him (perhaps after returning home I get a brief story of how Hrathgar ended up felling a bear; I now have the option to present him as Hrathgar the Bearslayer!). Titles could be presented below character names so you couldnt just name your guy something similar and make it appear like you got the unlock. This could come along with a little icon of a Bear with a spear in it that appears behind Hrathgar's name during battle (so my opponnent's can see that he is an awesome hunter!).

Perhaps spending enough time working on their crafts can make them exempt from their kill or renown requirements for promotion (to help get those hard-to-promote defensive units up there or help people that don't play a ton promote their guys!).

roder
04-16-2013, 08:12 PM
Bannerhouse

Able to customize your banner, would be seen in loading screen and represents your House/Army. 40R to unlock bannerhouse, and 20R for an animal face to put on your banner, 20R to change color etc.

Great ideas Slimsy, I made my idea from your last one lol

raven2134
04-16-2013, 09:53 PM
Banner house is weaver's hut, it will come ;).

On that note. I would like titles and I think that would be a good renown sink.

Building for Factions Webcomic!!! - "This week/month...on The Banner Saga: Factions..." cue dramatic opening panel :D
Building for What is Told - short stories/other tales or fiction snippets by Alex

I also like collecting lore. Maybe stoic can put the Saga items in Factions but they're not equipable. They're for collecting and stuff :). Or maybe they could have aesthetic effects on god knows what.

Jeff did say that Saga/Factions could use more collecting :)

Bertez
04-16-2013, 10:15 PM
The Hall of Study.

Located right next to the hall of valor. The hall of study is were you can view replays of previous matches The matches will play out by themselves at 15 seconds a turn but can be fast forwarded and rewound turn by turn.

In addition. When ever two players who got at least 3rd place in a tourney play each other that match is automatically uploaded to the server and able to be viewdby any player.

Guğmundr
04-17-2013, 02:45 PM
The Hall of Study.
http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?481-Watching-other-peoples-games/