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Butters
04-22-2013, 12:22 AM
To all of the proud Vikings of Strand,

Are you brave enough to face the most honored of your fellows in battle, and prove by axe and bow who the most powerful faction of Strand is ? If so, write down your name and brace yourselves, for the fight will be fierce, and can only have two outcomes : Glory or Valhalla !
- anonymous announcement to be found pinned to the doors of the Great Hall


Time to start the first fan-held TBS : Factions tourmnament !
This is the Vigrid Tournament, where the brave come to prove their worth. The winner will bask in glory and the satisfaction of knowing they bested their opponents without any tricks, artifices, or luck involved !

Tournament is now in progress ! See the post below for brackets, match announcements, etc.
Initial seeding has been done live on Twitch and can be viewed here (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/b/395309129) (noticed afterwards that my mic is picking up the horrible fan noise of my laptop, sorry about that...)

There will be two parallel tournaments at power levels 6 and 12.
Players list
Power 12 - 16 players
Tirean, franknarf, Bloodaddict, netnazgul, Bertez, Kletian999, Evil Laughter (aka dabhand), hreinnbeno, Butters, 6u5, HappyRacoon, Echlir, ojustme, raven2134 (aka strange_carrots), Slimsy Platypus (aka Bold Brendan), Kuba
Power 6 - 8 players
Aleonymous, Mindflare77, Butters, Evil Laughter ( aka dabhand), Rensei, InfiniteNutshell, raven2134 (aka strange_carrots), rodereve


Tournament format :
See brackets in the post below.

Matchmaking rules :
When matches are announced in the tournament thread, it is up to the players to take contact with their opponent and arrange for a match. The details of the how the match is undertaken is at their discretion (as long as there is prior agreement between the players, anything goes - best of 3, sudden death, ranked or friendly, etc ; with the exception of the championship match. If an opponent is a no-show for 1 full week, they will be considered forfeited (if you really can't participate, please try and forfeit willingly before that !). Results are to be reported ASAP in the tournament thread.
For the championship match, the winner of the loser's bracket will not have a disadvantage. It will be best of 3. It would be nice if one or both of the players would stream it. When playing best of 3, changes in build are allowed between matches.
Recommendations :
- detailed match reports are encouraged !
- streaming of matches (esp. high-profile ones) is strongly encouraged ! (for those worried that your opponent will watch your stream to see your RoAs and whatnot, you can always capture a video and put it up later).

Notes :
- Nothing is set in stone yet, if you have requests about the tournament format or rules please do speak up.
- This post and the couple below will be updated as the inscriptions and the actual tournament progress.
- No particular contingencies against fraud are prepared. I am counting on everyone's honorable behavior (there's no reason for it to be otherwise).

May the strongest and most cunning win ! They shall bathe in mead, and drink from the skulls of their opponents !

Butters
04-22-2013, 12:23 AM
Here are the official tournament brackets, as seeded here !
See below for match announcements !

Brackets

Note : brackets posted here may be out of date. Follow the link to the online table for the latest state. (I wish I could embed...)

p12 tournament bracket (in dynamic form here (http://challonge.com/Vigrid12))
http://i.imgur.com/wIEk6bs.jpg

p6 tournament bracket (in dynamic form here (http://challonge.com/Vigrid6))
http://i.imgur.com/OxiCGme.jpg

Matches

The following matches are up to play :

P12
Losers Finals : Butters vs strange_carrots

After that, Grand Finals : Tirean vs ?

P6
Grand Finals : Butters vs Mindflare77



Time to contact your opponents and set up matches !
Don't forget to stream matches whenever possible, and report results in this thread after the matches !

gl hf all !

Butters
04-22-2013, 12:23 AM
Tournament replays & Highlights

p12 round 1 replays
Slimsy vs Bertez (http://www.twitch.tv/boldbrendan/b/396411536)
Butters (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/c/2201323) vs 6u5 (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/c/2201336)
Tirean vs Bloodaddict (http://www.twitch.tv/tirean/b/396925877)
HappyRaccoon vs netnazgul (http://www.twitch.tv/netnazgul/b/395499652)
Kletian999 vs Echlir (http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/396447941)
Dabhand vs franknarf (http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/b/396400267)

p12 round 2 replays
Butters vs Slimsy (http://www.twitch.tv/boldbrendan/b/397921475) (and from Butters' perspective (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/b/397921384))
ojustme vs Tirean (http://www.twitch.tv/tirean/b/399700561)
netnazgul vs kletian999 (http://www.twitch.tv/netnazgul/b/396942674)
Echlir vs HappyRaccoon (http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/397138597)
strange_carrots vs franknarf (http://www.twitch.tv/raven2134/b/397908142)

p6 round 1 replays
Mindflare77 vs Rensei (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/395671006)
Aleonymous vs raven2134 (http://www.twitch.tv/raven2134/b/395892122)
dabhand vs InfiniteNutshell (http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/b/396361218)
dabhand vs Rensei (http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/b/397420254)

p6 round 2 replays
Butters vs strange_carrots (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/c/2236864)
mindflare77 vs InfiniteNutshell (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/397511399)

Others
Round 1 round-up by Slimsy ! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgLLCTeGPw)
Round 2 round-up (Part 1)by Slimsy ! (http://youtu.be/qzh119qOr6A)
Round 2 round-up (Part 2)by Slimsy ! (http://youtu.be/cxYi1DA5Pd8)

Evil Laughter
04-22-2013, 03:03 AM
I'll confirm for r6 as well

I don't know why steam unlinked itself from my forum account I will see about fixing that

Tirean
04-22-2013, 03:38 AM
put me in P12 tournament :)

Aleonymous
04-22-2013, 03:41 AM
I'm about 75Renown short of growing a newbie's p12 team. So, by the time the tourney sets up, perhaps I could compete in p12 too, if there's places still open. At my maxed-play-rate, its like ~20R/weekday and ~100/weekend.

Butters
04-22-2013, 03:56 AM
Updated :)
Still plenty of spots to fill !

Fear, for the mighty Tirean wrote his name on the wall ! Then face your fear, and prove your worth against the best ! Immense glory for those who were to beat him !

Rensei
04-22-2013, 04:27 AM
I'm up for the Challenger Cup (6). Could easily field a team for Pro Cup, but lack the experience and wouldn't feel comfortable.

Also: Europe here, free to play around 19-22 CEST.

franknarf
04-22-2013, 07:18 AM
If it helps with the player numbers, I'd be fine playing in either p6 or p12 (not both, though).

Now I'll need to try to build a team that's not terrible again! I've been playing only QM since p12 tourneys started.

6u5
04-22-2013, 05:39 PM
If qm has taught me anything it's that i'm terrible at team building, but i'll give the p12 a go if there are spots open still.

HappyRaccoon
04-22-2013, 06:47 PM
I'd like to sign up for the p12 tourney.

Echlir
04-22-2013, 06:58 PM
I'll join the power 12 cup, on a side note I googled Vigrid to see what it meant and am a little disheartened, why do nazis have to ruin everything? :(

Butters
04-22-2013, 10:00 PM
Oh damn I had no idea some norwegian neo-nazis used the name Vigrid :/ the wikipedia article you're looking for is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigrid, not that other one as I'm sure you understand.
TL;DR : Vigrid is the name of the battlefield where the battle of Ragnarok took place. The word itself means "battle-surge".

Echlir
04-22-2013, 10:12 PM
No, I was pretty sure you weren't aware. Nazi's stole the Swastika and these a-holes are just continuing the tradition. I like to think we're taking the word back a little.

Butters
04-22-2013, 10:12 PM
New players added !
There are still 3 to 4 spots open on the p12 ledger (depending on Aleonymous' participation), so speak up !

Aleonymous
04-23-2013, 01:14 AM
There are still 3 to 4 spots open on the p12 ledger (depending on Aleonymous' participation), so speak up !

I think I will make it to p12 by the tournament start, but I'll have barely time to practice with it. So, please keep me on "low-priority" for p12 (with an asterisk or something), meaning that I could compete only if there's an awkwardly-empty space left and you guys need one more to fill in the groups. p6 is my natural habitat :)

ojustme
04-23-2013, 06:52 AM
Waht's the difference between "best of three" and "double-elimination"? Anyway, i'm in for p12.

mindflare77
04-23-2013, 07:14 AM
Best of three means that you will play a given opponent three games to decide who goes on. First to two wins moves on in the bracket. Double elimination means that you can lose in the bracket twice before you're out of the tournament.

At least, that's how I understand it.


EDIT: Fixing a typo from typing on my phone.

franknarf
04-23-2013, 07:28 AM
"Best of three" is one way to determine the winner in a particular match-up. Others are "best of five", "higher sum of remaining stats after three games", "first player to get hit by coals or slag loses!"

Double-elimination means that if you lose two match-ups, after that you are done with the tourney (I think). This could be inferred by how the diagram at the top works.

EDIT: wow, I'm slow. That's what I get for opening an array of tabs at once. :)

Butters
04-23-2013, 07:57 AM
ojustme added ! Just a couple of spots left in the p12 tourney now !
The p6 tourney on the other hand is not moving much, as was kinda expected. Maybe we'll do it with 8 players.

Both mindflare and franknarf are correct ; best of 3 refers to how to determine the winner of a match-up, and double elimination refers to the format of the tournament.

InfiniteNutshell
04-23-2013, 10:43 AM
Alright, I haven't played in a while but I guess it's as good a time as any to come back. Put me in for p6.

Butters
04-23-2013, 07:01 PM
Someone asked in chat when the tournament will start (I think it was hovercraft ?).
The answer is : as soon as we get the necessary number of players !

Slimsy Platypus
04-23-2013, 08:14 PM
I would love to participate! (P12) I have to frequently travel for work but play almost everyday when a computer is available. I don't play without streaming these days so there will be plenty of documentation (at least for one match before losing horribly :) )

One thing that might also be interesting is if everyone submitted a build and could not change anything in it (to avoid countering a particular player they knew they would be facing). Simply a suggestion. Looking forward to it!

raven2134
04-23-2013, 08:23 PM
Just to get this thing going, and be a part of it, time and schedule permitting - sign me up for both. :)

I'm more in it for the funsies.

Butters
04-23-2013, 08:39 PM
Alright, we get to 16 with two of the usual suspects ! :D
Considering Aleonymous said he would participate mostly to get us to the right number, I will leave about 24 hours for someone to take his spot (consulting with him first would be a civil thing to do).

The first Vigrid Tournament (p12) shall start tomorrow !
p6 on the other hand will be a while, it seems.

Please think in advance of what times you will be available for playing, as you will need to communicate it to your first round opponent.

Slimsy : your suggestion makes a lot of sense. However I also find it interesting that countering specific builds is at all possible ; also, if your opponent can change his build, so can you. If you expect your opponent to adapt, maybe you should too ! I'd rather have as little limitations as possible for this first tournament ; we'll see how it goes as it is and build up from there.

Regarding the random seeding, I was planning to hand it over to a neutral hand, namely raven ; since he's playing, that plan does not work too well anymore ^^; Would someone not playing in the p12 tournament be kind enough to do it ? (I'll provide the tool for it).

mindflare77
04-23-2013, 09:15 PM
I can do the random seeding for the p12, if nobody else steps up.

roder
04-23-2013, 10:01 PM
ill play p6

HappyRaccoon
04-23-2013, 11:33 PM
Exciting!

Tirean
04-24-2013, 01:35 AM
To make it fair someone could stream the random seeding, set up each player with a number and then use a number generator online to do it for you.

netnazgul
04-24-2013, 01:54 AM
To make it fair someone could stream the random seeding, set up each player with a number and then use a number generator online to do it for you.
Yay, championship draw live on TV :)

Aleonymous
04-24-2013, 02:39 AM
I just earned the renown needed to acquire a full p12 squad. But, being really inexperienced at this level (apart from generally incompetent :rolleyes:)... Please, step-up to fill "my" p12 place!

PS#1 - I +1 Slimsy's idea about submitting fixed builds. That way we can also "prepare" before the actual match. Perhaps only allow initiative-order changes?
PS#2 - The draw on TV would be fun! Just like Champions League.

Butters
04-24-2013, 04:14 AM
Streaming the drawing is one fun idea !
If y'all are okay with it, I will use an online bracket generator with integrated seeding while live streaming, and the result shall be final.
Seems fitting for my streaming debut ! :D

We are still waiting for a 16th to takes Aleonymous' place.
Once our last competitor is found, I will set up for the draw on Twitch, which should happen somewhere around Europe's late night / US' afternoon - hopefully tomorrow. Then we'll be set to do the first round of matches by the end of the week !

Regarding fixed builds, unless there are more players requesting it, I'd like to keep that for the next tournament - for the reasons in my post above, and also because it seems a bit late in the process now to announce such a rule.

Butters
04-24-2013, 04:16 AM
Also, to the p6 people :

would you be OK with starting a first tournament with only 8 players ? It seems unlikely we will find 8 more anytime soon.
I'd rather do both simultaneously, if possible.

Evil Laughter
04-24-2013, 04:27 AM
I'm okay with doing an 8 player p6 tourn.
I'm personally in preference for a mutable lineup.

Kuba
04-24-2013, 06:15 AM
I will probably suffer terrible losses, but it might be fun :). Count me in for p12 tourney.

Aleonymous
04-24-2013, 06:38 AM
I will probably suffer terrible losses, but it might be fun :). Count me in for p12 tourney.

Thanks Kuba! I owe you one ;)

I'm also OK with 8 player p6-tourney. Only problem is that I'll be offline this entire w/e, but OK, matches are to be held at the two combatants' leisure.

roder
04-24-2013, 07:19 AM
I'm okay with doing an 8 player p6 tourn.
I'm personally in preference for a mutable lineup.

ditto, btw what do you mean by mutable lineup, as in bo3 change in between?

Tirean
04-24-2013, 07:22 AM
I feel all the tournament games should be in a bo3 format.

First game your team is what you enter with. You eliminate each map player by player until 1 map is left.

After first game the loser has a chance to change his/her team and also gets map choice.

franknarf
04-24-2013, 07:29 AM
Just in case any more votes come in: I also prefer a mutable (as opposed to a fixed) lineup for this tourney.

I'll probably only have two games to play so it won't matter much, though. :)

EDIT@Tirean: Yeah, that sounds like an interesting way to do it, but we might as well keep it simple (by leaving that choice up to the players as Butters proposed) for the early games in this tourney, eh.

Butters
04-24-2013, 07:30 AM
OK, so this is it !

Tournament entry is now closed !
We'll do the power 6 tourney with 8 players.
Initial seeding will happen for both tournaments (streamed live, for anyone who cares) very soon, stay tuned ! I'm thinking of doing it around 11 AM JST tomorrow, which is 2 AM GMT (sorry Europeans) and 9 PM CST. My stream is here (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs) (never used until now...). I will be posting again here and in chat when the time is final. I will use the online ledger creator and seeder at challonge.com (http://challonge.com/).

Definitive players list
Power 12 - 16 players
Tirean, franknarf, Bloodaddict, netnazgul, Bertez, Kletian999, Evil Laughter, hreinnbeno, Butters, 6u5, HappyRacoon, Echlir, ojustme, raven2134 (aka strange_carrots), Slimsy Platypus (aka Bold Brendan), Kuba
Power 6 - 8 players
Aleonymous, Mindflare77, Butters, Evil Laughter, Rensei, InfiniteNutshell, raven2134 (aka strange_carrots), rodereve

Bloodaddict
04-24-2013, 08:18 AM
*Excited* ;)
Just a short preparation question since I never played a friendly match so far: Do I have to add my opponent(s) as steam friends to make this work? Or is this done somehow in the game?

Aleonymous
04-24-2013, 08:29 AM
Do I have to add my opponent(s) as steam friends to make this work? Or is this done somehow in the game?

Yes. Steam friends are automatically added on your "Friend Lobby" in the Great Hall. Restarting the Steam and/or TBSF client could solve some mini-issues, e.g. like seeing a friend online in Steam but no in TBSF.

*** Edit: Inviting friends requires an "extended" (?) Steam account, which practically means that you gotta load some money on Steam. Not necessary to spend them though (unless you want those colors:)). But, note that it does take some time to actually allow you to invite, like 24hrs or so. Probably has to do with credit-card verifications etc. Perhaps your opponents can invite you to make things easier!

Butters
04-24-2013, 08:38 AM
Also, if Steam friending is a problem, you could try sniping each other by going into queue (ranked or QM) at the same time if you have close-ish Elo. If you are pitted against another player, you can always alt+f4 on them. Certainly not the best way to go about it, but it's an option.

Echlir
04-24-2013, 11:45 AM
*** Edit: Inviting friends requires an "extended" (?) Steam account, which practically means that you gotta load some money on Steam.

I've had steam for ages and didn't even know this was a thing. 0_O

Aleonymous
04-24-2013, 12:06 PM
I've had steam for ages and didn't even know this was a thing. 0_O

I am actually not sure about the term "extended account". You wouldn't have noticed it if you use Steam "like it wants you to", i.e. if you load money and spend it on games etc. In this way, your account is automatically "extended". On the contrary, I (being a cheapo that just wanted a FtP game from Steam ;)) soon found out that I couldn't invite any friends! Why? My account was marked "restricted", as all fresh-accounts are, as a potential-suspect for phising/spamming etc. So Steam says: "load some money on your steam wallet, so that we know that you're a good guy, and then you'll have no restrictions". That's what I had to do to be able to invite friends...

netnazgul
04-24-2013, 12:35 PM
To add friends you must have at least one game bought on steam (I think it doesn't need to be really bought THROUGH steam, but a paid game downloaded in it) or placed any amount of money onto your steam account. But you can still be added as friend by someone else even without that.

PS: Friended several people from the p12 list, though it's somewhat hard to choose on some of them from a vast list of identic nicknames :)

Echlir
04-24-2013, 12:40 PM
I can see where they are coming from with that, luckily people can buy something for like 50 cents and solve that problem. Although you are in greece and pricing in other countries for games has always been....odd.

Butters
04-24-2013, 09:28 PM
Tournament is officially started !
The seeding has been done by my not-so-innocent hand, but pushing a scrupulously random button (relive that epic moment here (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/b/395309129)).

Look at the second post (here (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?1568-Vigrid-Tournament-1st-Edition-recuiting-now-at-both-p6-and-p12-!&p=20519&viewfull=1#post20519), you lazy thing you) for brackets and match announcements.

HappyRaccoon
04-24-2013, 09:34 PM
Netnazgul I added you on steam. I live on the west coast of the US so I am on PST.

Bertez
04-24-2013, 09:37 PM
Holy cow! I'm play Slimsy first round.

Don't think I'll win but damn if i'm not excited to have a guaranteed match against Bold Brendan. Especially if he decides to stream.

Echlir
04-24-2013, 09:56 PM
Not envious of anyone in the north bracket. Now if anyone is having problems thinking of how to chose the map for their match(if there is a random button in there stop reading now) in friend mode I have rolled a randomized set of numbers to choose maps for best of 3 for the first round. Using a list of the maps from one of BoldBrendan's post:
1:The Beach
2:The Great Hall
3:The Mead Hall
4:The Proving Gounds
5:The Wall
And random numbers for the 10 matches (p12 and then p6)
2 - 2 - 4
2 - 1 - 3
1 - 5 - 5
1 - 3 - 3
2 - 1 - 1
5 - 1 - 3
2 - 1 - 4
1 - 4 - 2
4 - 2 - 2
1 - 2 - 1

raven2134
04-24-2013, 09:58 PM
I can play weekdays GMT+8 9pm-12mn

Saturdays 9am-2pm

Sundays 2pm-6pm and 9pm-12mn

Kuba, Aleonymous, when would be best for you given those times?

Slimsy Platypus
04-24-2013, 11:06 PM
Wow, I am super excited for this! Butters (and others!), thanks so much for organizing this! Best of luck everyone!

Also, I would like to take the opportunity to talk some official smack talk to Bertez: take care to hide your women and children, because my Warhawk intends to show you what the hilt of his sword looks like (the hard way). May the better man stand atop the corpses of the fallen! (sent you a private message regarding availability... and best of luck!... not that you need it)

Butters
04-24-2013, 11:15 PM
6u5 and I played our first match already !
You can replay the entirety of it here (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/b/395335318), from my perspective.
Result below, don't read if you want to keep it a surprise and watch.
(note : do "spoiler" tags not work on this forum..?)


It was a win 2:0 for me, but both were pretty tight. Mistakes were made on both sides, some clever/spectacular plays - wait for the Tempest in the second match !

On a side note, raven, would you mind changing the thread title to something reflecting the current state of the tournament ? Maybe " Vigrid Tournament, 1st Edition (ongoing)"

Arnie
04-24-2013, 11:43 PM
This is totally and completely cool.

HappyRaccoon
04-24-2013, 11:49 PM
This is totally and completely cool.

Perhaps the winner could have some small acknowledgement somewhere?

Also Butters I dig your choice of music

Butters
04-25-2013, 12:41 AM
Thanks for chiming in Arnie :) I'm glad you like the initiative.

And thanks HappyRaccoon ! For those of you who don't know it, I have been streaming Woodkid's The Golden Age album with my matches, and the track Iron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSkb0kDacjs) (best music video evarrrr, you have to check it out - it's also pretty relevant to the game in terms of ambience) was playing when I was doing the drawing.

HappyRaccoon
04-25-2013, 12:58 AM
Neat! Yeah I looked it up right after. I feel like in that last match 6u5 just threw at the end. I was very sad :c

I feel like had 6u5 not moved his strongarm away, or had his WH kill your SM he would have won. 8/12 is more than enough to just walk all the way to your BM to kill her.

Butters
04-25-2013, 01:12 AM
Oh yeah, without a doubt, either of these two moves would have won him the match. I was expecting to play a third...

Tirean
04-25-2013, 01:40 AM
Bloodaddict add me on steam and we can get some games going sometime over the next few days!

Kletian999
04-25-2013, 01:44 AM
Echlir, I've added you to my Steam friends. I'm traveling until Saturday, and I live in EST time. Let me know when you are available this weekend.

Aleonymous
04-25-2013, 02:12 AM
Awesome Butters! It's really cool you organized this tourney. :) Loved the drawing stream too!

I've PM'd Raven for arranging our matchup at p6, hopefully sometime tomorrow, cuz there's this 6h difference between the Philippines and Greece! Concerning my following match (Butters or rodereve), please note that I'll be offline in the w/e, until Sunday evening, say until GMT~20h00!

6u5
04-25-2013, 08:19 AM
I definitely went full retard at the end of the second match. Don't think i would have taken the third if we'd gotten there though, as the only reason i almost had second was due to a mistake by butters. Guess i'll just have to win the losers bracket now :P.

Butters
04-25-2013, 08:42 AM
Well, between experienced players it's all about who makes what mistakes, so me making a mistake is a perfectly valid reason to win, and that definitely could have happened twice !
Overall that was a very enjoyable couple of matches and I'm glad I have them on record. Might be streaming more in the future...

raven2134
04-25-2013, 08:46 AM
P12 carrots vs Kuba, 2-0, I'm onto the next round :).

Good games Kuba, was close both those games.

Kuba
04-25-2013, 08:53 AM
I confirm that :). Thanks, I have forgotten how strong can Strongarm be. Once more time, good luck in next rounds.

mindflare77
04-25-2013, 09:31 AM
Rensei, I'm on EST. Saturday evening Iwwon't be available, but I'll be free from Friday after 6pm. Tonight I'm open from about 6-11. Just let me know and we can work something out.

If someone points me to directions on how to easily stream, I would be willing to capture my defeat for the viewing pleasure of you all.

6u5
04-25-2013, 09:32 AM
Fair enough butters, i definitely had fun in those matches. Was quite interesting getting beat by a two SB build. Was the Carrots v. Kuba match streamed?

Butters
04-25-2013, 09:39 AM
If someone points me to directions on how to easily stream, I would be willing to capture my defeat for the viewing pleasure of you all.

netnazgul wrote a very simple guide precisely for that (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?1484-Hitchhiker%92s-Guide-to-Streaming&highlight=streaming+twitch) !
I used that to set up my own stream, you can get running in a matter of minutes, it really is surprisingly straightforward.

Also, the carrots vs Kuba was not streamed unfortunately.

ojustme
04-25-2013, 10:09 AM
1:1 with hreinnbeno and the decisive match is ahead. Both games were really really hard and the winner/loser border was thin there. Maybe I should learn how to stream :) Anyway, it's nice to have such a tough time.

HappyRaccoon
04-25-2013, 10:26 AM
I won 2-0 vs netnazgul. He streamed it too so I'm sure a VoD will be up at some point.

netnazgul
04-25-2013, 10:29 AM
Lost 0-2 to HappyRaccoon, streamed here (http://www.twitch.tv/netnazgul/b/395499652).
Moving to losers bracket now unfortunately, no second opportunity to lose :)

edit: HappyRaccoon flashed me commenting first :D

raven2134
04-25-2013, 10:29 AM
I was running 2 SB during that fight with Kuba, btw.

HappyRaccoon
04-25-2013, 10:39 AM
Yee yee :D I'm actually curious about watching from your PoV. I wonder what mistakes it looks like I made.

edit: I do think in round 1 you should have used your sky striker to block me off to allow your raidmaster to be more aggressive.

edit2: In round1 when you strongarmed my BB back to my warhawk I left myself open to your raidmaster advancing and taking out all of my WH's armor.

edit3: round1 play where you shoved a BB into the RoA3 left your sky striker open. Which seems bad when all your big characters are low on armor values. This opening allowed me to pressure your late game threat (and I think I won partially because of this)

edit4: round1 After you broke my WM with your RM you should have used your BB to attack my WM, I think. The hit I get in with my full str WM pretty much seals the game.

ps. I think Skystrikers should move further into attack range when RoA'ing because at max range it is easy to predict what is safe. If you move close you can potentially fire at angle angle making the move harder to predict.

edit5: Early in round2 when you positioned your Strongarm behind your RM I thought you were going to punt him forward which would have been incredibly annoying to my formation. Also I walked into an obvious RoA1 herp derp (got greedy with my BB movement). My 90% shot felt pretty key to doing well in round 2 as well.

edit6: Kill my SA with your RM allowed me to get a hit on your WH far too early which sealed round2 up (in my mind). My low health WM should have been killed much earlier as well. If you had then I would not have been able to weaken your last end game threat of the strongarm.

edit7: I now see what you mean by breaking to do a 11str hit. I feel like you should have prioritized killing my WH over my BM, but that is probably just my bias.

edit8: I don't really think that 90% 2 damage shot would have won you round2, but it does suck that it missed. That concludes my post-commentary on the game.

hreinnbeno
04-25-2013, 11:14 AM
Lost 2-1 to ojustme

First two were pretty close, one on one in the end.

The last one was pretty decisive.

We both had the same teams throughout all three games.

ojustme
04-25-2013, 11:16 AM
2:1 with hreinnbeno in my favor, so i win the whole match. The last game was not as tough as the first two but that's mostly about how good the first couple was :) It was a really nice play.

Kuba
04-25-2013, 12:01 PM
So tournament is going on, Butters is doing fine job organizing it, I got beaten heavily :), but it came to my mind we are missing one important thing. For what are we fighting besides eternal glory and renown? Nothing. That is not worth a Viking. So allow me to introduce my own creation and price for winners (if Butters is alright with it) The Chalice:

http://i.imgur.com/Kbrj9BD.png

Hope you guys like it :).

InfiniteNutshell
04-25-2013, 12:24 PM
That Chalice looks like a sword to me? But ok (not that I get a say, presumably this is for the p12 group)

Kuba
04-25-2013, 12:33 PM
Yes, it is sword called The Chalice :). I thought I would make second version of it, differently colored, for p6 group.

Evil Laughter
04-25-2013, 12:49 PM
Looks like both my games p6 and p12 will be on Saturday due to timezone issues

Aleonymous
04-25-2013, 01:27 PM
Yes, it is sword called The Chalice :). I thought I would make second version of it, differently colored, for p6 group.

Could the p6 group get an BattleAxe instead? Or those will be reserved for the Vigrid II a.k.a. "The Return of the Bloody Loser Vikings" tournament? :p

Edit: Another name could be "The Unpillaged" (like the Unforgiven)

Butters
04-25-2013, 06:50 PM
Glad to see the tournament is advancing nicely ! We are now mid-way through round 1. The next match will unlock two round 2 matches !

Thanks Kuba for the prize, I definitely endorse that. :)

Rensei
04-25-2013, 07:19 PM
Fallen 1:2 to mindflare77, after winning first one. Nice battles, some of my best ones so far. Looking forward to the rest of tournament. The Fire Pit god was pleased.

mindflare77
04-25-2013, 07:30 PM
Very close matches (except the loss, where I got smacked around a good bit) for Rensei and I. Stream of all three is here (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/395671006) for those interested. If all the other matches are as well fought as this one... Wow.

Rensei
04-25-2013, 07:44 PM
Oh no! You RECORDED it all? Good lord they will have a good laugh at me :(

HappyRaccoon
04-25-2013, 07:51 PM
I have to say while watching the first round it was quite a trouncing from Rensei. Never let BBs run around at full health! Also I think the deployment of your WM was suspect mindflare. Its pretty neat to watch everyone else's games though.

Watching this match and butters match does give a strong argument for SMs in the meta game. They absolutely trounce RM, whose ability I utterly despise.

Watching round two it seems like Rensei tries too hard to spread out to deal with things. Running out to maim a thrasher doesn't really do much due to their ability. If you had pulled back from that flank perhaps you could have applied more pressure down the middle. Also with a turn 1 WM why not set 2 exertion so you can really sprint in and SMASH!

In round2 it really did hurt to watch your warmaster get punted around due to exertion. Find a way to get that on man, he really needs it. Personally I feel like round two your positioning should have been more centered. Though I give props to mindflare for keeping his WM at full health all the way to the end. Attributing this to your SM not getting in range in a good time frame. If he gets broken first he really does lose a lot of his oomph.

As a general thought with BBs if you manage to get a line on an archer that tends to be all you need to really cripple one. So with two I wouldn't fret too much about them.

In round3 you used your WM to slap a RM with SW1 up, and I've learned from experience that most of the time you jsut get dunked for that move. Lesson, don't do it. You had your SM in walking range and could have just done that instead. I feel like the hit he got on your WM pretty much sealed the game. You depend so much on having that big teddy around, or having everyone else strip armor off the enemy. Moving up to take a 3 str potshot on the RM snowballed into a lot of poor decisions and cost you the game.

Then there was mindflares insane run across the firepit move that chunked out your last end game threats, but that's another story.

Rensei
04-25-2013, 08:08 PM
Thanks for the input Racoon, come to think of it, those recordings might help me a lot, so if You find anything else please do comment on it.

I think my philosophy here is to have him on as much armor/hp as possible at this level to be the big scary guy with danger zone, who comes in after teddy has done his job (and he did it great this games, thanks You cuddly and yet manly varl). Though I have to admit - the enemy's greater mobility pains me a lot, just like the armor ignoring.

I know trashers should be finished off due to their ability, but a random 3-4 dmg is nothing compared to a max-zero ghosted archer, hence the attempt to temper his hp pool.
Still - looking at it now - should have just moved away and save all that willpower. I was aiming at taking down mindflare's archer next, so I justified the expense in my mind.

Yth
04-26-2013, 04:10 AM
I've done a numerical analysis of the 2 Butters vs. 6u5 games. Am I obsessed with trying to find a counter to Butters's 3 BM build? Of course not!

File here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6032323/banner%20saga%20combat%20logs.xlsx

Game 1:
6U = 6u5
BT = Butters

6U's team's total stats:
Armor: 60
Strength: 70
Willpower: 29

BT's team's total stats:
Armor: 68
Strength: 55
Willpower: 30

End game totals:
6U: 0A, 0S, 0WP
BT: 10A, 8S, 1WP

6U reduced BT's armor by 36, averaging 3.3 per hit, over 11 hits
6U reduced BT's strength by 47, averaging 4.3 per hit, over 11 hits
6U spent 30 willpower (0? wasted to deaths).

BT reduced 6U's armor by 39, averaging 3.5 per hit, over 11 hits
BT reduced 6U's strength by 70, averaging 4.6 per hit, over 15 hits
BT spent 28 willpower (2? wasted to deaths).

Other notes:
6U took 9 armor damage due to Return the Favor, over 7 hits.


Game 2:
BT's and 6U's team's total stats: same as above

End game totals:
BT: 4A, 4S, 0WP
6U: 0A, 0S, 0WP

BT reduced 6U's armor by 34, averaging 3.8 per hit, over 9 hits
BT reduced 6U's strength by 70, averaging 3.9 per hit, over 18 hits
BT spent 24 willpower (5? wasted to deaths).

6U reduced BT's armor by 30, averaging 2.5 per hit, over 12 hits
6U reduced BT's strength by 50, averaging 6.25 per hit, over 8 hits
6U spent 22 willpower (8? wasted to deaths).

Other notes:
BT used an archer to break armor 1 (!!!) time during the course of the game, at the very end.
6U took 8 armor damage due to Return the Favor, over 4 (!) hits.


General analysis:
6u5's SS wasn't very effective vs Butter's team, with no key target needing to be stopped by RoA. Of 5 RoAs shot, 2 hit for 1 str damage each. Furthermore 6u5's team was light on mobility, preventing him from getting past the 2 SBs (with exception of the one spectactular 25 damage Tempest).

Butters
04-26-2013, 04:39 AM
Thanks for that Yth !
Good to see that you are making this purely for the scientific advancement of the community rather than out of an unhealthy fixation on beating a particular build. ^^
I'm surprised that these numbers do not show a big specificity for my build, outside of RtF of course. My low general strength is of course of note. The high number of str hits I dealt is probably key here too (there are very few scenarios where a BM can't attack, except for early game). I'd be interested to see numbers on first strength hit timing, and quantity of damage due to puncture, for example.

Evil Laughter
04-26-2013, 06:12 AM
Another thing of interest would be how many wasted moves that were no attacks or abilities were used once the first blow was landed (obviously the start of most games is positioning)

Rensei
04-26-2013, 06:22 AM
I'd include the total break in stats. Without it Butters team might look inferior, but the humongous breaking potential of two varls can't be ignored.

Rensei
04-26-2013, 06:32 AM
In round3 you used your WM to slap a RM with SW1 up, and I've learned from experience that most of the time you jsut get dunked for that move. Lesson, don't do it. You had your SM in walking range and could have just done that instead. I feel like the hit he got on your WM pretty much sealed the game.
The move was to make him think he has this easy, protect the archer from retaliation, allow her to land a big hit on his stripped WM and cage his raiders between WM and SM. Also possibly to force some attacks on SM while his ability was on. I got scared/clumped at first and allowed him to take midfield easy - between that and the range of his units I believed I had to build such cage to limit him and open to my archer shots. Obviously if WM and SM had switched places I would be in much better shape.

That is also one of the reasons I am thinking about dropping one archer (or in more extreme solution add one more), they are squishy and require a lot of protection to do the damage they were picked for. I added SA for better armor and endgame functionality even at 1hp but with enemy hp pool so much above 9 it is not paying off :(

HappyRaccoon
04-26-2013, 09:32 AM
Another thing of interest would be how many wasted moves that were no attacks or abilities were used once the first blow was landed (obviously the start of most games is positioning)

I actually feel like this ends up being fairly important most of the time. I wonder what % of first strikers win their games.


The move was to make him think he has this easy, protect the archer from retaliation, allow her to land a big hit on his stripped WM and cage his raiders between WM and SM. Also possibly to force some attacks on SM while his ability was on. I got scared/clumped at first and allowed him to take midfield easy - between that and the range of his units I believed I had to build such cage to limit him and open to my archer shots. Obviously if WM and SM had switched places I would be in much better shape.

That is also one of the reasons I am thinking about dropping one archer (or in more extreme solution add one more), they are squishy and require a lot of protection to do the damage they were picked for. I added SA for better armor and endgame functionality even at 1hp but with enemy hp pool so much above 9 it is not paying off :(

Yeah I realize, but my thought is that you shouldn't have used your WM that way. Yes there was a plan but waiting on the SM would have worked out better overall. Though you already know how bad your mid field clumping was, and I feel that was the biggest mistake in round3.

raven2134
04-26-2013, 10:09 AM
p6, Aleonymous vs Carrots, 1-2 I'm advancing to round 2.

Good games Aleonymous, you're much better than you think :). (I'd rather think that than myself having gotten a lot worse ha, but no seriously, you played very well, don't sell yourself short cos of the Elo).

Aleonymous
04-26-2013, 10:30 AM
p6, Aleonymous vs Carrots, 1-2 I'm advancing to round 2.

Those were fun matches Raven (http://www.twitch.tv/raven2134/b/395892122), thanks for your kind words! :)

Won the 1st one (Beach) mostly due to a lucky-streak of 4STR damage Bloody-Flail; some mistakes could have cost me that one too it seems! Still wondering why I didn't finish off that WH :rolleyes:? The 2nd match (PGs) went quite fast the wrong way for me cuz of a mistake; I opened my lines to raven's Thrasher who crippled my archer(s) :mad:. The 3rd match opened with a WH+WL combo for me and a good Tempest, but ended out with me turtling in a corner of the Mead Hall :cool:. Were fun all three of them!

Please note that I'll be offline the entire weekend; I'll be back by Sunday evening (GMT+2).

loveboof
04-27-2013, 12:23 AM
I've really enjoyed following this tournament! I wish I'd entered it :)

The video streams are great... I'm backing Butters to win!

InfiniteNutshell
04-27-2013, 08:36 AM
Playing (at least the first game of) my p6 match vs Evil Laughter now! Evil's going to stream it I guess

InfiniteNutshell
04-27-2013, 09:51 AM
Evil and I played the whole match, and I won 2-1!

Looking forward to watching the video to see how I managed to win game 1. I totally thought I was done for there until suddenly I was pulling ahead again.

franknarf
04-27-2013, 11:04 AM
You can find Evil's stream (vs InfNut and I) here: http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1 I think only the last game is easily legible.

In bracket 12G, we went 2-0 franknarf/ketman-Evil Laughter/dabhand. It was a lot of fun!

Slimsy Platypus
04-27-2013, 12:06 PM
Just finished my matches against Bertez the Killer! They were both very close (watch out for this guy!). Check out my stream here: Vigrid Round 1: Bold Brendan vs. Bertez (http://www.twitch.tv/boldbrendan/b/396411536) (my mic wasn't working unfortunately for these matches :(

I ended up pulling it out barely with 2 wins netting a 2:0 victory in round 1!

Evil Laughter
04-27-2013, 12:24 PM
@Infinite Nutshell
Sorry didn't stream too well :(
the answer is i got cocky and stopped paying attention

Kletian999
04-27-2013, 01:15 PM
Echlir beat me 2-0. He's got the video

Echlir
04-27-2013, 01:27 PM
Won my games against Kletian999 2-0. Tree stumps saved me in the first and barely squeaked out a win in the second thanks to puncture. http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/396447941

P.S. Little to no commentary, was a little preoccupied. Sorry :(

Kletian999
04-27-2013, 05:38 PM
Commentary on my side, I was being too aggressive as usual and letting my focus on his warmaster keep me from killing his archers. Round 1 fell when I didn't account for how'd he's move his archer and lost my warmaster, might have gotten the advantage if I had moved where I thought he'd have placed his sky arrows earlier on. While I had a chance in match two, I entered pillage with my warhawk too far away.

Butters
04-27-2013, 06:10 PM
Updated Brackets

p12 tournament bracket (in dynamic form here (http://challonge.com/Vigrid12))
http://i.imgur.com/eBWHnEy.jpg

p6 tournament bracket (in dynamic form here (http://challonge.com/Vigrid6))
http://i.imgur.com/HL8WRRZ.jpg

Matches

The following matches are up to play :
Many new matches unlocked ! We are not mostly into round 2 on both brackets !

12I : Butters vs Bold Brendan
12L : franknarf vs strange_carrots
12S : Kuba vs dabhand
12T : 6u5 vs Bertez

6F : InfiniteNutshell vs mindflare77
6J : Aleonymous vs FrE3kShOw
6K : Rensei vs dabhand

franknarf
04-27-2013, 07:06 PM
@Butters: the win count on 12A is off.

Butters
04-27-2013, 07:46 PM
oops, indeed.

InfiniteNutshell
04-27-2013, 08:22 PM
Are we supposed to proceed with matches as soon as they are unlocked? I sort of feel like it might be better for the p6 players to take our time, since it's a shorter tournament anyway. I guess I'll wait until the other first round matches are completed before I bug my opponent for our second-round match. If mindflare wants to contact me and have our match before that, that's fine too.

netnazgul
04-28-2013, 01:38 AM
Lost 2-1 to ojustme
12C was reported, and it was also brought to challonge bracket (seen on the log there), but is not active, so you missed it as played :)

So far the only unplayed match in 1st p12 round is Tirean vs Bloodaddict

Slimsy Platypus
04-28-2013, 03:32 AM
Hey guys, I just made a video that is a brief summary of what we've seen here so far in the tournament! Be gentle on me, I just learned today how to make videos and google taught me everything I know. But check out the Week One Vigrid Tournament coverage on youtube HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgLLCTeGPw)!!!

Hopefully in the future I get a bit of the narration volume stuff sorted out, but I have so many ideas for videos to make! Feel free to critique me, it was an absolute blast to put together!

stoicmom
04-28-2013, 06:43 AM
Great video, Slimsy!! Thanks :D

Evil Laughter
04-28-2013, 08:19 AM
Awesome slimy thanks. For future videos my stream is here: http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1

franknarf
04-28-2013, 08:56 AM
Hey Slim, nice coverage! Also, the second ketman-dabhand game can be found on Evil's stream, here: http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/b/396400267

loveboof
04-28-2013, 10:08 AM
check out the Week One Vigrid Tournament coverage on youtube HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgLLCTeGPw)!!!

Nice job! I've been hoping more videos would find their way onto youtube because I'm not particularly familiar with Twitch...

mindflare77
04-28-2013, 12:15 PM
Are we supposed to proceed with matches as soon as they are unlocked? I sort of feel like it might be better for the p6 players to take our time, since it's a shorter tournament anyway. I guess I'll wait until the other first round matches are completed before I bug my opponent for our second-round match. If mindflare wants to contact me and have our match before that, that's fine too.

I'm fine with waiting for the other match to finish or doing ours before. Up to you entirely; I'm not in a rush to be put out to pasture, but it's going to happen eventually.

Tirean
04-28-2013, 01:13 PM
2-1 victory to me against blood addict. Probably the closest last match game you will get in the tournament all going down to a 50% shot which blood addict missed.

Matches can be found here http://www.twitch.tv/tirean/b/396925877

netnazgul
04-28-2013, 01:44 PM
Reporting 0-2 loss to Kletian999 in a set of two highly entertaining matches streamed here: http://www.twitch.tv/netnazgul/b/396942674.

I'm the first to be oficially out of the tournament now :)

Kletian999
04-28-2013, 01:49 PM
Netnazgul and I just finished. The score was 2-0 for me. I think the key to the battle was me keeping his Strongarm more a liability then a help. Round 1 he was boxed in and maimed before he could attack much (got some pretty Warmaster numbers off it too), Round 2 he was kept back, maimed at range, then avoided until the end. I think Nazgul could have won round two if he had avoided my last Bird of Prey/killed the bowmaster. I also used a 70% shot to get his skystriker trap out of the way.

FYI, I'm going to be away from computers Thursday to Sunday this week, so I hope either Brenden or Butters won't mind the wait if it comes to that.

Butters
04-28-2013, 07:45 PM
Some more awesome matches !
Didn't get to watch all streams yet, I look forward to it !

Sorry for the lack of updates over the week end, I have been afk for most of it (and Don't Starve ate all of my keyboard time...)
Will be squaring everything out today.

Butters
04-28-2013, 09:37 PM
p6, Butters against FrE3kSh0w, I win 1:0 (we did sudden death). No stream, sorry...

HappyRaccoon
04-28-2013, 10:33 PM
2-0 my favor versus Echlir. Quite close in the 2nd game.

Echlir
04-28-2013, 10:36 PM
Yep, 0-2 loss against HappyRacoon http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/397138597

Butters
04-29-2013, 12:00 AM
Brackets are up to date again. Announced matches are as follows :

P12
12I : Butters vs Bold Brendan
12J : ojustme vs Tirean
12L : franknarf vs strange_carrots
12S : Kuba vs dabhand
12T : 6u5 vs Bertez
12U : Bloodaddict vs hreinnbeno

P6
6I : Butters vs strange_carrots
6J : Aleonymous vs FrE3kSh0w
6F : InfiniteNutshell vs mindflare77
6K : Rensei vs dabhand

HappyRaccoon
04-29-2013, 12:23 AM
Butters you should update the video reel section!

Butters
04-29-2013, 02:46 AM
Indeed, I was way behind on that. So cool that almost all matches are recorded ! (sorry for not streaming my p6 today...)
Copypasta here for convenience ?

Tournament replays & Highlights

p12 round 1 replays
Slimsy vs Bertez (http://www.twitch.tv/boldbrendan/b/396411536)
Butters (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/c/2201323) vs 6u5 (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/c/2201336)
Tirean vs Bloodaddict (http://www.twitch.tv/tirean/b/396925877)
HappyRaccoon vs netnazgul (http://www.twitch.tv/netnazgul/b/395499652)
Kletian999 vs Echlir (http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/396447941)
Dabhand vs franknarf (http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/b/396400267)

p12 round 2 replays
netnazgul vs kletian999 (http://www.twitch.tv/netnazgul/b/396942674)
Echlir vs HappyRaccoon (http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/397138597)

p6 round 1 replays
Mindflare77 vs Rensei (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/395671006)
Aleonymous vs raven2134 (http://www.twitch.tv/raven2134/b/395892122)
dabhand vs InfiniteNutshell (http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/b/396361218)

Others
round 1 round-up by Slimsy ! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgLLCTeGPw)

loveboof
04-29-2013, 09:22 AM
Yep, 0-2 loss against HappyRacoon http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/397138597

The end of the second match was very interesting - I couldn't believe you moved onto the coals with your SS! lol. You could have killed HappyRaccoon's SA instead which would have meant he had to move the WH in...

Overall (I hate to say it), I'm glad Echlir lost. Nothing personal at all, I just hate those really shy turtle tactics! It's refreshing to see it lose for you most often in this tournament. Sorry :) You're obviously a good player though.

HappyRaccoon
04-29-2013, 09:59 AM
The problem was if he moved to kill the SA he leaves an opening for the Warhawk to hit his WM which means game over. Even if I take 2/2/2 coal damage during a pillage he'd still be done.

Edit. If Echlir had moved to the tile that has the SM's shield on it he could have stopped me or perhaps continued to strip away my armor. Even the move of his WM to a more aggressive position may have been dubious.

loveboof
04-29-2013, 10:45 AM
@HappyRaccoon, yeah he had to move and shoot, but onto the coals is the worst thing to do! (especially with only 3 health) :P

Arnie
04-29-2013, 10:50 AM
I loved Bold's youtube video rundown of the first round. Awesome stuff and really cool to see how many different parts of the world people are from.

Evil Laughter
04-29-2013, 01:39 PM
Reporting a 2:1 victory to me against Kuba

Only just scraped a victory

Kuba
04-29-2013, 01:42 PM
I confirm that, it was pretty close, I still don't know how I won first match, in second missed 60% chance in 1 on 1, otherwise it would be 2-0 for me :). Then got stomped in last match. You streamed all of it, Evil Laughter?

Evil Laughter
04-29-2013, 02:41 PM
All three games are up on twitch

Rensei
04-29-2013, 03:39 PM
Second map - omg. Felt so sorry for Kuba, but hey - good call Evil :)

Rensei
04-29-2013, 04:22 PM
Evil Laughter goes on, so does my heart. Sadly, the rest of me is out of the tournament :(
Got destroyed first game - so hard I voted for BO1.

dabhand 1:0 Rensei

Evil Laughter
04-29-2013, 04:23 PM
And here it is: http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/b/397420254

mindflare77
04-29-2013, 09:24 PM
2-0 against Infinite Nutshell. Good games, both of them. I like how much I'm being pushed in this tournament. Stream of it is here (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/397511399).

InfiniteNutshell
04-29-2013, 09:26 PM
In our p6 match, mindflare and his dual Warriors just finished crushing me 2-0. He was really effective at keeping my Warhawk from ever getting a chance to take a big hit. I believe he has recorded the games.

EDIT: why did it take me so long to write three short sentences? not surprised mindflare ninja'd me

raven2134
04-30-2013, 12:44 AM
Streaming my match vs franknarf/ketman later. I fear he may knock me out. Will edit the results into here.

HappyRaccoon
04-30-2013, 12:48 AM
Streaming my match vs franknarf/ketman later. I fear he may knock me out. Will edit the results into here.

I am so excited

Bloodaddict
04-30-2013, 02:26 AM
Hi hreinnbeno,

Just in case you check this thread and overlooked it otherwise: I sent you some PMs for scheduling of our match.

See you,
Bloodaddict

Aleonymous
04-30-2013, 02:48 AM
p6, Butters against FrE3kSh0w, I win 1:0 (we did sudden death).

Hello FrE3kSh0w!

It seems it's you-vs-me then. In case you've missed it, but still reading the thread, I've PM'd you (Forum/notifications) about arranging the match.

Alex/Aleonymous

raven2134
04-30-2013, 03:07 AM
They can do that? Why didn't they play best of 3? o.o

Butters
04-30-2013, 05:20 AM
In the rules, I stated that match conditions are at the discretion of the players (bo1, bo3, bo5, friend match or ranked : it's a do-as-you-wish policy). In this case I was a bit short on time for 2-3 matches so asked my opponent if we could do bo1, so that we could have a result immediately (it was the last match in round 1, I thought it better no to hold the tourney back). He agreed.
Note that Rensei vs dabhand was also bo1.
Do you think all matches should necessarily be bo3 ?

Aleonymous
04-30-2013, 05:28 AM
Do you think all matches should necessarily be bo3 ?

I think it's better left to the the players to decide, just as you did, Butters.

On one side, playing more matches gives weaker-players somewhat more chances to test stuff and learn from the stronger ones. On the contrary, stronger players are probably bored having to go through multiple matches, but they also risk (element of surprise!) when playing "sudden death".

Rensei
04-30-2013, 06:03 AM
Note that Rensei vs dabhand was also bo1.
It's a great rule that allows players to avoid any further humiliation, especially if the humiliating one is kind enough to change it to BO1 on the fly :]

raven2134
04-30-2013, 07:05 AM
Fair enough, was merely curious. Well met, all of you.

netnazgul
04-30-2013, 10:56 AM
On one side, playing more matches gives weaker-players somewhat more chances to test stuff and learn from the stronger ones. On the contrary, stronger players are probably bored having to go through multiple matches, but they also risk (element of surprise!) when playing "sudden death".

I can't really say that there is a single weaker player in poth tournaments :)

Though I'd give preference to bo3 as it is less relying on luck and the same way it's still not that cumbersome to play (snooker world championship final is played for 33 games for example :) )

Speaking that, I don't think that this rule should be a must - if both players agree on changing to bo1, or bo5, or bo33, then they should be allowed to do so. Probably except the final match - I think that must be bo5 at least and streamed :)

edit: So, to summarize - final rounds (losers/winners finals at least) should be at least bo3, and grand final should be bo5, other than that is for opponents to decide.

Aleonymous
04-30-2013, 11:29 AM
Though I'd give preference to bo3 as it is less relying on luck and the same way it's still not that cumbersome to play (snooker world championship final is played for 33 games for example :))

From my example [Aleonymous-vs-Strange_Carrots], it would be grossly unfair for me to advance to the next round: At the first match I was quite lucky, and I'm also confident that Raven was kinda relaxed against me (we had played 1-2 friendly matches before, where I was testing stuff and also did quite a few mistakes). So, after I luckily beat him, he got serious, adapted his strategy to my "style" and beat me twice in a row, without too much worrying. I'm sure it'd have been something like 3-30 in 33 matches :D (remember that Elo formula?)

So, since these TBS games are all about adaptivity/adaptability to your opponent, "boN" format is always in favor of the "best" player, as N increases.

raven2134
04-30-2013, 12:06 PM
Lol Aleonymous, you discount yourself far too much. I THOUGHT I knew what I was doing that first match. Yes luck played a part in it, but it means I played the game too close, and you won the first one fair and square.

Lately I haven't been as sharp with the game (compared to the beta), but that's generally because I'm more distracted by real life, and because I suppose I lack the time at 30 seconds (as opposed to the old 1 min) and just generally prefer to think less and intuit more.

InfiniteNutshell
04-30-2013, 12:13 PM
Oh hmm, this makes me wonder what timer people have been using. I'm used to playing p6 ranked matches with the 30-second timer, but I let my opponent choose the timer in both my tourney matches so far, and they both chose 60-sec.

Grits
04-30-2013, 12:34 PM
This is pretty cool. Sign me up for the next one P12

Tirean
04-30-2013, 12:57 PM
Its in a tournament format so should be in 30 second timer imo. All my matches will be 30 second timer.

Evil Laughter
04-30-2013, 02:26 PM
I've been having a preference for the 60sec timer just so I have a bit more time to explain what I'm doing on the stream if necessary, but it's not a big issue for me.

Kletian999
04-30-2013, 03:00 PM
As long as both sides get the same time (which they do in Friend matches) it's fair. Then again, I suppose if two players are greatly used to one time, there might be an advantage granted in the dissonance (thinking too long or too short)

Aleonymous
04-30-2013, 04:46 PM
I personally prefer the longest timer. The 30s expert one leads me to too-many mistakes, easily evaded when I have more time to think clearly. But I guess that using the 30s timer means that ~1h is enough for 3 matches in a row, i.e. to decide a "bo3" match-up.

Rensei
04-30-2013, 08:35 PM
I'm with Aleonymous on this one - setting the timer to none made my matches against myndflare super enjoyable, had time to chat, etc. It was also a nice change from the everyday 30sec.

mindflare77
04-30-2013, 08:53 PM
Personally, I prefer the longer timers. I have more time to think, and that makes the game more enjoyable for me. I played on the expert timers for a couple of weeks and found that I was losing more often (which, obviously, is rather the point: if I think faster/get better, it won't happen), but went back to the standard timer because two renown per match wasn't worth the loss of enjoyment from the quickened pace and increased losses.

For Vigrid in particular, I would think that so long as both parties agree on a timer setting, it shouldn't really matter, in the same way that determining who wins (Best of 3, Best of 5, Sudden Death, etc.) doesn't matter so long as both parties agree. As for what happens when both people don't agree... I have no idea. Thankfully, that's not happened to me yet.

And I agree with Rensei; the lack of a timer definitely made it more social than pure competition, and personally I enjoyed that. Then again, YMMV.

franknarf
04-30-2013, 10:13 PM
Raven beat me 2:1. The stressful matches are on raven's stream. :)

raven2134
04-30-2013, 10:15 PM
Very tough opponent. GGs Ketman

Catch it here: http://www.twitch.tv/raven2134/b/397908142

Butters
04-30-2013, 10:33 PM
3 epic matches against Bold Brendan resulted in a 2-1 victory for me, but barely deserved !
You can find the stream from my perspective here (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/b/397921384) (unfortunately my mic setup was a fail and my voice is mostly unhearable unless you put the volume all the way up, and consequently get deafened by the ingame noises)
And Slimsy's stream is there (http://www.twitch.tv/boldbrendan/b/397921475) (with proper commentary)
First match was pretty close ; it hinged on a 90% shot by Slimsy missing. If that connected I was done for, luckily it didn't and I won that game.
Second game was not close at all. I got properly schooled, I'll let you discover how on the stream, but it was a very clear victory for him. Might become a textbook reference on how to beat my build (hopefully I will learn from it before it does...).
Third game was again very close, very tense. I like to think that I learned some lessons from the previous match there, but I feel there were some significant mistakes by Slimsy that allowed me to take the win - and just barely so.

Butters
04-30-2013, 11:34 PM
Main posts now have updated ladders, matches announcements, and highlights !

Slimsy Platypus
05-01-2013, 01:32 AM
New Round 2 highlight video! Check it out: YouTube Vigrid week 2 highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzh119qOr6A)

Kletian999
05-01-2013, 06:03 AM
Awesome coverage Slimsy. If curious, I'm also from the NE US, and the pronunciation of my handle is a bit tricky. the e in Kle is long (Klee) and the tian is pronounced "shen". It's based off the character Kletian Drowa from FF Tactics. Looking forward to seeing you in the matches. As mentioned earlier I'm away Thurs-Sunday, but we could try to squeeze the match in tonight if you wanted.

franknarf
05-01-2013, 08:25 AM
Backs bite and wars master.

:) This video is great!

Wow:

dabhand's second match was so lucky at the end!
Your one victory over Butters was huge!


EDIT: Oops, thought I was posting that in the other thread. :)

HappyRaccoon
05-01-2013, 09:16 AM
GG wp strange_carrots wins 2-1

raven2134
05-01-2013, 09:17 AM
Thanks, good stuff Happy Raccoon, was very impressed with your build. It does make me rethink the idea that people need RMs. You clearly don't :D.

Now time for me to get knocked out by Butters or Tirean (unless ojustme gives him the boot :p)

mindflare77
05-01-2013, 11:57 AM
Look at the bright side, Raven. Either you or Butters gets to knock me out in the p6. So at least you get to do some of the knocking out, even if it isn't for as good a player as the others. =)

HappyRaccoon
05-01-2013, 03:25 PM
Raven you better win! I plan to come back and get you after loser's bracket! Definitely screwed the pooch on the round 3 though. Wasn't really thinking enough -_-' midterms and programming killing me slowly

netnazgul
05-01-2013, 11:22 PM
One quick question - will we demand the losers finalist to win 2 matches against winners finalist in the Grand Final? It's sometimes done (could be seen on the bracket as match Q; after the first match both players have 1 match loss if losers finalist wins and it's even to the last, while at the same time if winners finalist wins, then loser gets a second match loss and is out), but giving that losers bracket is longer, Grand Final can be for a single match win.

PS: And I'm still fond of idea for the Grand Final to be best of 5 ;)

Butters
05-02-2013, 12:54 AM
Good question net. For some reason I didn't write anything about that in the main post (or deleted it at some point maybe). I did talk about it in the seeding stream, if anyone watched that.
What I'd like to do is not give any advantage to the winner of the winner's bracket over the winner of the loser's bracket in the grand final. That means a simple bo3 or bo5, no "Q" match. It just seems more interesting to me.

Yth
05-02-2013, 01:20 AM
I loved the video Slimsy. Any chance you could let us know what music you used?

raven2134
05-02-2013, 05:45 AM
Music credits is in the video

Rensei
05-02-2013, 06:21 AM
I'm for the no advantage to winners bracket over losers one - this rule has killed enough tournament finals already (You get excited, hoping for a long BO7, then it turns out the guy coming from top wins one match and they go home).
Plus, the bottom guy has already been "punished" by having the longer and more stressful way into the final.

roder
05-02-2013, 12:51 PM
looks like a great tourney, sorry again about dropping out last minute, couldnt be avoided as the powerjack on my laptop completely broke. just got it repaired now, grats to Butters for hosting a successful tournament, looking forward to watching finals

hreinnbeno
05-02-2013, 01:06 PM
Lost to bloodaddict 2-0. First match was close the second wasnt.
I dont believe there is a stream of it.

Bloodaddict
05-02-2013, 01:09 PM
Just was abot to write the same...
And yes, no stream.

VadersHelm
05-02-2013, 03:12 PM
Great Video Bold Brendan! Thanks for hooking it up w/ the knowledge about the Provoke + Skystriker. Haven't done any Rank 12 matches yet, but that move was SWEEEET. Keep it up please!

franknarf
05-02-2013, 07:07 PM
@Bloodaddict: So is this your Steam account? http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197977439227

The hours logged on TBSF must be bugged...

Anyway, I'm your next opponent! Some time this weekend would work for me; we can sort it out on Steam chat.

EDIT: OK, thanks Tirean!

Tirean
05-03-2013, 01:31 AM
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198019258533/ < this is his profile Franknarf.

Butters
05-03-2013, 09:23 AM
reporting Butters vs strange_carrots at p6 : 2-0 for Butters.
Replay here (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/c/2236864)
Yes, that build is totally IMBA :)

ojustme
05-05-2013, 09:18 AM
I totally like it. You use archer harassment and the moment you use it you set up your team order for WL+WarVarl combo. That's quite beatiful, really :)

HappyRaccoon
05-05-2013, 10:45 AM
HAve Slimsy and Kletian played already?

Tirean
05-05-2013, 01:35 PM
Tirean 3-0 ojustme

We played a bo5 me taking it 3-0

Stream is here http://www.twitch.tv/tirean/b/399700561

franknarf
05-05-2013, 02:13 PM
2-1: Bloodaddict moves on!

mindflare77
05-05-2013, 03:44 PM
Butters, I'm good for our game/my death whenever. I'm on Eastern Standard time, (currently UTC-4, I think?). I'll typically be free from 6pm-11pm on week nights.

Rensei
05-05-2013, 04:44 PM
I totally like it. You use archer harassment and the moment you use it you set up your team order for WL+WarVarl combo. That's quite beatiful, really :)
I've met a level 6 team like this recently. It was on great hall and I figured it out from the get-go, so didn't have much trouble blocking that. Still almost lost because of the rabid thrashers trio and the varls, who decided to bring the pain the standard way. Can't imagine fighting this team on an open field, especially with successful combo. :eek:

6u5
05-05-2013, 05:29 PM
2-0 against Bertez in my favor. Don't think he streamed so there's no record.

Bertez
05-05-2013, 06:19 PM
It didn't stream but I can verify.

Butters
05-05-2013, 09:46 PM
Main post updated - The following matches are up to play :

P12
Round 3
12M : Butters vs Tirean
12V : BoldBrendan vs Kletian999
12W : ojustme vs dasbhand
12X : Echlir vs 6u5

P6
Round 2
6J : Aleonymous vs FrE3kSh0w
Round 3
6G : Butters vs mindflare77
6M : strange_carrots vs dabhand

So, next up is me vs Tirean, deciding who gets to face Carrots in the winner's bracket finals... That ought to be a tough on, especially with that team. I don't know how/why people expect me to win ! Anyway, still looking forward to it. It may be a bit tricky to set up with the unpractical time difference, so the match may happen only this week-end depending on schedules.

Mindflare, I think we can set something up on late night (10pm-ish) your time Tuesday or Wednesday.

Both discussions to be continued over PMs.

Slimsy Platypus
05-06-2013, 06:31 AM
I have not played Kletian yet, possibly early this week we'll clash.

On another note, new highlights video! YouTube Vigrid Tournament Round 2 Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxYi1DA5Pd8&feature=youtu.be)

Evil Laughter
05-06-2013, 07:03 AM
ojustme I think I sent an invite to the right steam account, if I didn't just send me an invite.

Kletian999
05-06-2013, 07:04 AM
Indeed, I just got back from a trip. My evenings are totally clear so I expect tonight.

raven2134
05-06-2013, 07:30 AM
Ummm, I beat franknarf slimsy :) Happyraccoon too

Butters
05-06-2013, 06:21 PM
so rodereve is back in the game, taking his rightful place back from FrE3kSh0w who went MIA. He's up against Aleonymous.
That was a bit weird...

Kletian999
05-06-2013, 06:44 PM
Been looking for Bold Brendan tonight but I guess he played his quota earlier today.

Kletian999
05-06-2013, 07:34 PM
Nevermind, he found me and beat me soundly. That's a little poem for my fallen heroes.

Slimsy Platypus
05-06-2013, 09:51 PM
Had some excellent matches against Kletian. I emerged victorious but it was no easy victory!

Check out the stream here: Twitch Bold Brendan vs. Kletion Round 3 Vigrid Tourney Match (http://www.twitch.tv/boldbrendan/c/2250859)

Aleonymous
05-07-2013, 01:52 AM
So, rodereve is back in the game, taking his rightful place back from FrE3kSh0w who went MIA. He's up against Aleonymous. That was a bit weird...

Yeah, it was :). The match vs. rodevere is scheduled for tonight. I will try to stream it (no voice, it's gonna be like midnight in Greece!), but I can't promise anything because I've had some issues with my network connection (it's wireless) that might give me trouble....

6u5
05-07-2013, 05:23 PM
And echlir just stomped all over me, his warmaster had a hell of a party at the end of round 1. GG guys it's been fun, might have to practice a bit more fore i try this again though :P.

Echlir
05-07-2013, 05:25 PM
confirmed, streamed it here http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/400558948 and here http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/400565778
something odd was happening during the stream so apologies if the recordings are wonky.

Aleonymous
05-07-2013, 05:27 PM
Vigrid | Power-6 | Match "J" | Aleonymous 1 - 2 rodereve | rodereve progresses!

I won the 1st match marginally, rodereve easily took the 2nd one; I put up some resistance on the 3rd match, but to no avail! :cool: All matches were fought at the Wall, with a 60sec timer.

You can check out the recorded streams here: Match #1 (http://www.twitch.tv/aleonymous/b/400540704) | Match #2 (http://www.twitch.tv/aleonymous/b/400550979) | Match #3 (http://www.twitch.tv/aleonymous/b/400563623) . Unfortunately, the stream quality is quite poor :( because I was at x3 downscaling due to my 0.5Mbps upload.

EDIT: Can an "expert" look into Match#3 @19m20s, and tell me if I had any chances of turning it? I'm so hopeless at calculating endgames... :o

roder
05-07-2013, 06:15 PM
Can an "expert" look into Match#3 @19m20s, and tell me if I had any chances of turning it? I'm so hopeless at calculating endgames...

damn that was close, I just rewatched #1 and #3. I think you could've won #3 if you used that last WP to puncture my raider for 100%, then you'd have pillage and you can just armorbreak from distance while blocking pathing with your raider.

Butters
05-07-2013, 08:13 PM
damn that was close, I just rewatched #1 and #3. I think you could've won #3 if you used that last WP to puncture my raider for 100%, then you'd have pillage and you can just armorbreak from distance while blocking pathing with your raider.
I don't think he could have. With the BM getting as far as possible to shoot the raider, the SRM would still be able to get to her with 1 wp from the horn.
Maybe the BM could use the horn wp to move further instead of BoP, but then it's a 40%? shot to kill the raider. Even if that connects, it's still a toss-up..

loveboof
05-08-2013, 05:15 PM
Match #1 (http://www.twitch.tv/aleonymous/b/400540704) | Match #2 (http://www.twitch.tv/aleonymous/b/400550979) | Match #3 (http://www.twitch.tv/aleonymous/b/400563623)

Can an "expert" look into Match#3 @19m20s, and tell me if I had any chances of turning it? I'm so hopeless at calculating endgames... :o

Not so sure about the endgame (I'm no 'expert' lol), but from about 13 minutes you definitely could have won it :P

Also, I think you devoted too many resources to taking out the raider in #1 and #2 while he was stonewalled! Almost all your opening moves were about getting through his ability... so much WP!

[edit: ahh rodereve! I knew I recognised your name - great match earlier :) ]

mindflare77
05-08-2013, 08:38 PM
Butters beat me, 2-1. My stream cut out midway through the second game (my win), and started again near its end. So there's two vids; the first (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/401038486)is game 1 and the first half of game 2, the second (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/401048620)is the last few moves of game 2 and all of game 3. As such, I would strongly recommend watching Butters' streams if/when he puts them up.

Very good games; I'm content to have gone the distance, to be honest. I'm certainly open to feedback; I feel as though I may have been able to pull a win out of the last game, not so sure about the first.

Butters
05-08-2013, 08:38 PM
Just played the finals of the p6 winners' bracket against Mindflare77 !
The replay is here (http://www.twitch.tv/butters_tbs/c/2258824)from me (no commentary) and here (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/401038486) and there (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/401048620)from Mindflare.

These were actually quite close, contrarily to Mindflare's expectations apparently.
I think I played quite poorly today and barely deserved to win... I did however, 2-1. Onwards to the Grand Final ! My asian bookie money is on Carrots for the losers bracket win and Grand Final opponent. Maybe he can get revenge for our previous matches :) I'd be interested to play any of the others too though, don't think I had the pleasure except maybe for rodereve.

InfiniteNutshell
05-08-2013, 11:30 PM
I just finished my p6 match with rodereve. Unfortunately, neither of us streamed it, so I'll do my best to recount the highlights.

I was playing my usual RM/SM/BB/SA/BM/WH build against rodereve's RM/SM/BM/TH/BM/SRM. Game 1 was on the Wall by his request. I threw off my own game right from move 1 by accidentally sending my Raidmaster forward all the way to the enemy line, instead of 3 squares forward which is my usual opening. This wasn't the end of the world but it did leave him a bit stranded, since the enemy Raidmaster also moved forward, preventing my Shieldmaster from catching up and establishing a defensive line.

The most fun part of game 1 was when rodereve used his Strongarm to punt his Raidmaster to the back of my formation, threatening my archers. In response, my Backbiter charged after him, knocking over my Bowmaster and damaging her armor in the process. They are still pretty upset at each other but I made it clear that arguments during battle would not be tolerated.

I didn't direct enough attention to the Strongarm in the early game, so it was still in pretty good shape going into the endgame. In the endgame I wound up with my half-strength, half-armor Backbiter being Pillaged by a bunch of enemies who would go down in one hit -- except the Strongarm. Not seeing any way to attack him without being killed, I settled for taking out all the other enemies and accepting my fate.

Having agreed that loser picks the next map, I chose to visit the Beach for game 2, and I was now looking out quite attentively for that Strongarm. I never seemed to get a chance to do a good Strength hit on him though. Going into the endgame I had knocked out most of his armor, and killed or crippled most of rodereve's other units, but the Strongarm was still at his full 15 strength.

Fortunately, my Warhawk had been skirting around the edges of the battle and was also at full strength, with a decent amount of armor remaining to boot. We ended up in something of a standoff for a while where we each had our one tough Varl and two other crippled units. I was able to use my crippled units to block, making sure my Warhawk was always just in range to hit the Strongarm with him unable to reach me, thanks to his slightly shorter movement range and the lack of any inspiring music (i.e. rodereve had fewer Horn uses available than I did). If he killed one of my other units to open a path, it wouldn't matter because then my Warhawk would have his turn before the Strongarm. He eventually ran out of room to retreat, and I claimed victory.

For game 3, we went back to the Wall, for a game that opened similarly but without me messing up my front line. Rodereve's Raidmaster was again sent behind enemy lines, but this time my backbiter left it to the archers to deal with him themselves, staying in the front to help deal with the pressing threats there.

As it turned out, the archers did a fine job dealing with the Raidmaster, with some help from my Warhawk. The endgame came down to a shootout between all four archers, but since mine had heavier armor, I was able to secure the game and my right to progress in the tournament.

TL;DR: Had a great match against rodereve and won 2-1.

roder
05-08-2013, 11:54 PM
Haha couldn't have said it better :D ggs the better viking won

Butters
05-09-2013, 01:00 AM
Erf, I just watched the streams of those games against Mindflare again, and I played even worse than I felt at the time... So many stupid moves. Color me ashamed ! I expect the experienced players to cringe a lot watching these ; I know I did.
Mindflare, there are a couple of relatively easy to spot late game moves which would have won you the third game ; killing my SA on your second turn in the first game would have helped you a lot too (I understand that was a misclick ?).

EDIT : also, top post updated.

Aleonymous
05-09-2013, 01:25 AM
Not so sure about the endgame (I'm no 'expert' lol), but from about 13 minutes you definitely could have won it :P

Yeah, especially that RoA-than-never-came-to-be was the turning point. I really didn't see it, and rodereve was apparently expecting it (he said it on the chat). Twas just my poor sleepy eyes! :cool:


Also, I think you devoted too many resources to taking out the raider in #1 and #2 while he was stonewalled! Almost all your opening moves were about getting through his ability... so much WP!

That's true, but as it turns out (Ref: InfiniteNutshell-vs-rodereve post (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?1568-Vigrid-Tournament-1st-Edition-p6-and-p12-ONGOING!&p=21306&viewfull=1#post21306)), rodereve heavily employs this Ramming-the-StoneWalled-RM combo. So, perhaps it was worth it spending some (!) WP to disrupt his plan-A. In Match#1, he didn't get to use it cuz the RM was maimed by round-1. In Match#2 he didn't have to use it cuz I stupidly took my SA out-of-formation. He eventually used it in Match#3 to good result: I didn't see it coming, I subsequently chose to push the attack with my van instead of retreating to deal with the threat, and, when I finally chose to take him out (@14m45s w my SS) I failed miserably and blew the match. :rolleyes: In retrospect, I think that preventing/mitigating such threats (i.e. to keep one's archers safe) is a top priority for most situations...

loveboof
05-09-2013, 08:04 AM
It's definitely a priority to mitigate threats, but I think there are better ways to do that without having to burn through so much willpower. Even if you kill the raider, he has served a very useful purpose for the enemy by eating 12 WP or more and 3 different unit turns!

Instead you could block him, or lure him onto a RoA, etc...

Evil Laughter
05-10-2013, 11:06 AM
reporting a 2:0 loss to strange_carrots
streamed: http://www.twitch.tv/dabhand1/videos?kind=past_broadcasts

raven2134
05-10-2013, 11:15 AM
gg dabhand. Thanks for streaming too. Will set the next fight with Nut when I see him.

InfiniteNutshell
05-10-2013, 01:59 PM
Alright, me vs. raven! I have excitement

Butters
05-10-2013, 11:23 PM
Alright, p6 tournament is nearing completion !
Losers' bracket Finals between InfiniteNutshell and Mindflare77 is up ; I will be playing the winner in the Grand Final !

In p12, Tirean vs me should happen some time tomorrow Sunday (hopefully).

InfiniteNutshell
05-10-2013, 11:30 PM
So raven and I had an...odd session today. We were planning to meet at 11 (AM his time, PM my time) for our match, but right before that the matchmaker happened to set us against each other (he was in p6 QM (I think), I was in p6 RM). He beat me in that match but it didn't count for anything.

Then we did our actual best-of-3 tourney match, which raven recorded so you can watch it if you want. Game 1 went to him, and game 2 looked to be in my favor until the game bugged out on me on a critical turn, preventing me from moving through a square I needed to pass through to attack with my Shieldmaster (I guess this is a known issue? but I had not encountered it before today). After finishing that game we worked through how it would have gone if I hadn't gotten messed up by the bug, and raven graciously conceded the win to me. I think the main reason he did was because it meant we got to play one more game, but anyway, game 3 went normally. It was really really close. But I managed to win it!

So: it looks like I'm moving on to a rematch with Mindflare, and raven is moving on to only being in one tournament at a time.

raven2134
05-10-2013, 11:36 PM
Hehe :D fun stuff but it is hard to do both

Evil Laughter
05-11-2013, 05:40 AM
ohjustme has a 2:1 victory against me
stream online

ojustme
05-11-2013, 05:42 AM
2:1 vs dabhand - i go further. It's all recorded on his stream, so enjoy! :) That were good games though i made a way too bold advance with my WL in the first one.

loveboof
05-11-2013, 08:00 AM
game 2 looked to be in my favor until the game bugged out on me on a critical turn... [so] raven graciously conceded the win to me. I think the main reason he did was because it meant we got to play one more game, but anyway, game 3 went normally. It was really really close. But I managed to win it!

I'm assuming that Raven actually won match #2 but let you claim it?

Not really my business at all, but I think the fairest thing to do would be to just rematch that game! He won the first game legitimately to your legit win in game 3 - the decider shouldn't be as vague as a gentlemanly concession imo...

But it's not up to me :)

raven2134
05-11-2013, 09:47 AM
I'm quite alright with the result ;) Nut took the win through good play. Even without the bug, he should have won it.

InfiniteNutshell
05-11-2013, 09:48 AM
Yeah, as far as the servers know he won that game. Afterward though, we ended up working through in detail what moves we would have made from the bugged turn to the end of the match, and we determined pretty conclusively that if I had been able to move up that turn I would have won. I was willing to accept any of the three possible judgments (count it as his win, count it as my win, or throw the game out) but raven said "lets just play a 3rd game" so I accepted that.

Echlir
05-11-2013, 12:37 PM
Echlir reporting in. A 2-1 win for me against Bloodaddict. Very close games all around. http://www.twitch.tv/echlir/b/402187080
(was something weird going on with my upload so I'm betting the quality is bad, sorry)

loveboof
05-11-2013, 03:32 PM
I'm quite alright with the result ;) Nut took the win through good play. Even without the bug, he should have won it.


I was willing to accept any of the three possible judgments (count it as his win, count it as my win, or throw the game out) but raven said "lets just play a 3rd game" so I accepted that.

Fair enough. As long as you're both happy with the result it's all good :)

ojustme
05-11-2013, 05:03 PM
Hey, Butters, i guess you forgot to add that Bold Brendan has beaten Kletian999 so now he fights me :)

HappyRaccoon
05-11-2013, 05:47 PM
Oh snap I better start practicing again!

roder
05-11-2013, 06:35 PM
I'm assuming that Raven actually won match #2 but let you claim it?

Not really my business at all, but I think the fairest thing to do would be to just rematch that game! He won the first game legitimately to your legit win in game 3 - the decider shouldn't be as vague as a gentlemanly concession imo...

But it's not up to me :)

Haha thats exactly what i was thinking too, so weird to theorycraft the winner lol but hey, it was between you two`s decision as per the rules.

tourney finals shaping up to be really good, hope they get streamed

Butters
05-12-2013, 10:04 AM
Played one game against Tirean today, which he won.. The others (bo3) will need to be rescheduled, hopefully tomorrow.
I have been arguing with madam Butters from the middle of the match, which seriously impaired my concentration as you can imagine. That's why I had to rescheduled (were OK now, if anybody cares).
Apologies to Tirean and stream viewers.

Butters
05-12-2013, 10:29 AM
Edited double post.
I realize that sounded like a lame excuse, so I'll just say Tirean beat me fair and square, I have nothing to say to that. Hope to be in better form for the next match(es) !

Kletian999
05-15-2013, 08:17 AM
So how's the tournament going so far. The thread has been awfully quiet lately.

mindflare77
05-15-2013, 08:31 AM
My apologies. Have been scrambling with some RL issues lately. Can do the [re]match with InfiniteNutshell any evening this week/weekend now.

Tirean
05-17-2013, 12:03 PM
I have been busy as well, have a free few days now so I can play my matches.

ojustme
05-17-2013, 01:48 PM
i'm playing with Bold Brendan tomorrow at 17:00 UTC (GMT), for example.

InfiniteNutshell
05-18-2013, 03:05 PM
Just had my match with mindflare77, who streamed it and will be posting. I went 0-2 so I'm out. This tournament was a lot of fun though! I'm looking forward to the next one! (Maybe by then I will learn how to play well against double-warrior builds)

mindflare77
05-18-2013, 03:18 PM
As Infinite said, we just played our match. Stream *should* be here (http://www.twitch.tv/mindflare77/b/405180266) if it went correctly. Good games, both of them, though I'm still not sure where the second one turned from his advantage to mine. So I guess this means I rematch Butters now?

Butters
05-18-2013, 10:00 PM
Alright, after a bit of a slow spell (partly my fault, sorry) the tournament is back on track and nearing completion !

P6 is up to the Grand Final, which is Mindfare77 vs myself ! (that's a rematch, actually)

P12 is waiting for Tirean vs me and ojustme vs Bold Brendan, and both match should happen today Sunday.

Keep an eye out !

Tirean
05-19-2013, 07:03 AM
Final score vs butters is 2-0 to me. Look in my video archive to get the matches. They are split into 3 videos :D Sorry :D

Butters
05-19-2013, 07:09 AM
So, Butters-Tirean just happened.. And it wasn't pretty.
Reminder: we played one game last week, won by Tirean, meaning we started today at 1-0.
I got to pick the map and went for great hall as he runs only 1 archer.

You can see the match on both my channel and Tirean's (mine has no commentary so Tirean's is probably your best bet).
Although honestly that won't be as interesting as some may have hoped....
I started the match by mistakenly putting my RM in malice range accross the fire, and then make a stupid move while running our of time (and not even finishing it) with one of my SMs, drawing him out of the action. That was enough to spell disaster, considering the opponent ^^;

So that's 2-0 for Tirean. Next matches are Tirean vs Carrots for the winner's bracket finals and Echlir vs me. ojustme vs Bold Brendan is stil scheduled for today I believe.

Slimsy Platypus
05-20-2013, 11:56 AM
Unfortunately I had a hectic weekend and a couple things came up making me unavailable for my match vs. Ojustme :( However don't fret, we will meet in battle soon!

ojustme
05-20-2013, 03:05 PM
2:0 vs Bold Brendan - a win for me. Here's the video: http://www.twitch.tv/ojustme/b/406091272

Slimsy Platypus
05-20-2013, 09:21 PM
Had two great matches against Ojustme; the first was close the second was a blowout. Check them out from my vantage HERE (http://www.twitch.tv/boldbrendan/b/406093290). Better I was able to find some time late then never to my whooping!

ojustme
05-26-2013, 05:41 AM
My win against HappyRaccoon: http://www.twitch.tv/ojustme/b/408268098 He considers it done after one game.

Aleonymous
05-26-2013, 06:49 AM
My win against HappyRaccoon: http://www.twitch.tv/ojustme/b/408268098 He considers it done after one game.

It seems that HappyRaccoon wasn't aware of the "extra-turn" aspect of Forge-Ahead in Pillage :confused:. And he wasn't too happy when he found out! Well, I understand it's kinda weird (he did feel "cheated"), but otherwise FA would be almost useless in Pillage mode...

ojustme
05-26-2013, 10:22 AM
Yeah, i still feel bad about it :/ By the way. it seems like he is busy with RL right now. I guess that's the main reason for him not to play further.

Aleonymous
05-26-2013, 02:15 PM
Yeah, i still feel bad about it :/

I think without the FA he would have won the match with his quasi-full WM, right?

Well, as far as I can tell "unawareness" is not exactly excusable (at your guys' level) and he didn't seem very interested to further debate the issue. I recall another match (Carrots-vs-Nutshell?) where there was a *real* bug involved, and the players discussed the situation and concluded on a unanimously accepted solution...

Butters
05-26-2013, 02:40 PM
I think FA is fine as it is, but awareness is a problem. It's still not a very popular skill and many people have just never encountered it in Pillage, or maybe haven't thought about using it themselves in that situation.
This system is not exactly self-evident either. Maybe a little caveat about Pillage behavior in the skill description would help.

ojustme
05-26-2013, 06:09 PM
I think without the FA he would have won the match with his quasi-full WM, right?
Yep. For sure.



Maybe a little caveat about Pillage behavior in the skill description would help.
Yeah, it's certainly needed. It may be included in tutorial where the pillage starts.

mindflare77
05-28-2013, 10:22 AM
Butters, I'm good for the finals whenever. Wasnt sure if you wanted to let p12 catch up and have the Finals of each happening around the same time or not. I'm fine with whatever, just let me know. Looking forward to not only our rematch, but also seeing the conclusion to the p12.

ojustme
06-02-2013, 05:30 PM
It's pretty silent here :(

Kletian999
06-02-2013, 05:38 PM
Yeah, come on guys, I want to see who wins p12!