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View Full Version : Progress report! [Kickstarter Update #35]



John
07-08-2013, 11:05 AM
Check out the latest update on Saga progress here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga/posts

http://stoicstudio.com/uploaded/travel_2013_07_08.png

Hello and greetings again for another monthly update! This time we had planned to give you an in-depth look at the animation process in great detail by the amazing artists at Powerhouse Animations. They have been working ridiculous deadlines of their own and had to delay the update. We didn't want to keep anyone waiting, so we'll do a progress report now and a content-filled animation update soon thereafter. I know many people were hoping we'd update more frequently with smaller posts anyway.

First, Q&A as always:

Q: When is the game coming out?
A: Later this year. We used the much larger budget to make a much larger game.

Q: How long total has the game been in development now?
A: 1 year and 2 months

Q: How/where do I upload my guild crest?
A: We’ll be including crest uploads as part of the actual game, so there’s never a deadline. It will only be accessible by backers.

And now, PROGRESS!

This has been an insane month for The Banner Saga. We have a schedule we're working from, of course, and to meet this month's deadline we've been crunching harder than ever. I don't tell you this for sympathy, I say it simply because it's true, and we knew what we were signing up for. So, what did we accomplish with all this crunchery?

GOLD STANDARD
If you've followed game development before you might already know what gold standard means. Design usually involves coming up with a solid set of ideas, testing them quickly, creating placeholder systems until everything is working and is fun. After that, you create final content, figure out the way things move, polish the various systems until they're really done.

I'm very happy to say that every system in our game is now gold standard, and all of part 1 is compete. This is a significant portion of the game (I'm shy about saying exactly how much because stuff changes all the time).

Here's a list of things we've implemented since the last update:

World travel. Final art, with animated particles like blowing snow, birds, etc.
Close travel. Final art for a variety of close locations all hooked up as intended in the engine.
Randomized camp scenes. The player can camp at any point during travel, generating a randomized scene so that no two campsites look the same along the way. In camp the player can manage their units, rest, view the map and talk to allies. All of these systems are hooked up and working.
Custom combat boards. Final art for the unique combat boards used in part 1. These unique boards are used for key parts of the story, and they'll look special when you come to them.
Randomized combat boards. You'll often get into incidental fights along the way, usually due to choice you made during travel. These non-story-based fights randomly generate combat boards from a library of pieces that are mixed in matched to make standard fights have some variety.
The caravan. The traveling caravan now has final art in both world and close travel, growing and shrinking depending on how many people are in your caravan.
War. When you run across enemies in great numbers you go into "war" mode, a tactical decision where you choose how to approach a large-scale battle. This system has been hooked up with final art.
Travel HUD. The travel gui at the top of the screen is now fully functional. It tracks all your stats as you travel and the art changes as things like morale improve or degrade. The days cycle and count down and the other various buttons are all hooked up.
Conversation cameras. The portraits and camera movement for conversation are all finalized. When writing dialogue I can now choose which cameras to use to show characters that are talking. Their names and dialogue are also functional.
Conversation portraits. We have over 16 playable characters in the saga, and several more NPCs on top of this. All of these portraits are complete and hooked up in the game.
Conversation backgrounds. When jumping into conversation, the game pulls from a library of images, mixing and matching pieces to create background images that don't repeat.
Dialogue. Part one of the game now has final dialogue, both in conversation and for events that happen throughout the part. In addition, all the variables are hooked up to this dialogue so that the decisions you make actually function within the game.
Combat characters. We have many new characters that have not been seen before, and animation is finished for them.
Combat enemies. The dredge are nearly complete, but several are already in the game. We have begun the process of balancing them for single player combat.
Combat AI. Computer enemies now function, making smart decisions about what action to take. If you've played Factions you know the combat can get pretty complex. We will be working to improve AI until the game ships but at this time it is completely functional (and fun!)
Dynamic music. Austin Wintory has been doing excellent work on the score, but he's just as interested in making it emotionally engaging. Combat now takes into account your actions and dynamically generates music to match that. Certain actions in combat (first kill, winning, losing, etc) now seamlessly cue different music to emphasize this. He'll be doing an update about this in the future.
Travel score. Austin has also drawn up a lot of the music for traveling through the game. It's gorgeous!
Misc. There are tons of little things that go into putting this all together. We have transitions in place, titles screens, match resolution showing how many fighters you've lost, that sort of thing.


Sounds great, you may be saying, when do we get to see it? The plan is for the next update to show all of this gameplay. It'll also be a promotional piece and the first time people outside the studio have seen the real, functional game. We want to do it right, since it'll probably get picked up by some news sites.

However, we will be at RTX (Rooster Teeth Expo) in Austin this weekend, and showing a lot of this at our booth. If you happen to be in the area drop by!

OVERALL PROGRESS
What does Gold Standard mean for the progress of the full game? With everything in our game functioning correctly with final art, we are now working almost entirely on content. Here's a rough outline of how development goes:

Pre-production (art style, broad design ideas, type of game)
Proof of Concept (mock up of what the game would look and play like, basic rules)
Vertical slice (placeholder work on key systems that are playable, to test for fun)
Alpha (most of the game is playable in a rough state, some features still missing)
Gold Standard (a section of the game is taken to completion with final work, all systems are done)
Beta (the entire game is laid out, needs polish and playtesting)
Launch! (the game is done! Or is it?)

Developers can do this in a lot of different ways, which is why the terms above can get confusing. Is something alpha or beta? What does that even mean? Indies especially will just go along doing whatever feels right at the time, but the above is our basic trajectory. Next we'll be creating content for the remainder of the game. This is generally where production starts to move really fast, no longer burdened with having parts of the game that "can't be completed" yet.

A CONVERSATION ABOUT KICKSTARTER
Lots of stuff has been going on in the Kickstarter community lately. I'm sure many of you have noticed Double Fine's announcement about splitting up their game into two parts. They've gotten some serious heat for this. Backers of Shadowrun have heard similar things about the content in that game, with the DLC being released much later.

First of all, I want to be clear that we do not intend to do something like this for The Banner Saga. When it releases it will be a complete product. We don't have plans for DLC at this time, and we will continue to support the multiplayer component. We also intend to continue on the sequels (chapter 2 and 3) just as planned.

I would also like to talk about my personal opinion on this, and I'd love to be open and talk like a normal person instead of a PR person in damage control mode. Can we do this? Without freaking out? You can disagree with me of course, just be nice about it.

This is hard. Like, way WAY hard. When we pitched the game we were hoping for enough money to get extra animations, maybe increase the length of the game. We thought we'd get, like, 2000 backers, not 20,000. A fine problem to have, right? Haha! Except that it's actually a huge problem. The hardest problem I've ever dealt with in my life. Now I know.

We thought now we could do everything we ever wanted for the game, and got too ambitious. We thought we could make the game in six months, and I'm still not sure what we were thinking. That was stupid. I wish I could take that back, all we needed to do was put a different date there and nobody would be complaining. Whoops. We ARE still doing everything we want, and it's taking a long time. I don't feel bad about that. That was the POINT, right? To dream as big as we could?

It's interesting to think of it from someone else's point of view. For many people, letting a dev shoot for the moon is NOT the point. For a lot of people the point is I BOUGHT A GAME, WHERE IS IT? They want the biggest, best game ever made, on time, for their $10 contribution. I can see that, too. I don't really agree... but I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

If nothing else, I think the gaming community is finally getting a good picture about real game development. What would really shock people is that there is nothing unusual about any of this, except that you are finally seeing it. This is every game development story that has ever existed, except instead of the publisher dealing with it, YOU are.

Budgets of 1 to 4 million are small-to-medium sized. Our budget of $650k (in actual funding) is relatively small, half a year of production for a small team. Budgets of kickstarter projects asking for $20k... that's not enough to make a game, that's just some content. Surprise! Games you've come to expect as "standard" like Call of Duty: maybe 150 million to make, rough guess. You know how much Old Republic cost? I'm not legally allowed to tell you, actually. It's that much. Now you know.

Games take 1 year to make... if it's a casual iOS game, or an annual sequel. Medium sized games take 2-3 years. Large games take 4-5 years. Believe it or not, lots of games fall in a nebulous space between AAA and "indie", whatever that means. The Old Republic took over 6 years. Yeah, you started hearing about it 1 year before it released. It started production five years before that. For five years hundreds of people toiled on it 12 hours a day and you had no idea! Now you know! Isn't knowing about production right from the start wonderful? No, it's not. It's annoying. It takes FOREVER. That's why you usually don't hear anything until it's almost ready to ship.

Delays, content cuts, pushed back dates, plans to make revenue sooner- this is how games are developed. Bioshock Infinite, the biggest game of 2013, got delayed for half a year, AFTER pre-orders were sold. Journey took 3 years to make a 3 hour game and had to go back for more funding from Sony TWICE. That's how game development goes. They didn't know they'd need to do it. Humans are not good at estimating creative endeavors, no matter how "professional" they are.

We released a truly free demo hoping to make some extra cash for development, and got brutalized for it. But without that income and development time our single-player game wouldn't be as good. Some people will never understand this.

I've worked in games for about a decade. Some companies I worked for had their stuff together better than others. Some were a huge, hundred-million dollar, extremely delayed nightmares. Every company had delays and went over-budget. You know what a release date is? A guess. We're just guessing.

Essentially, I hope people don't freak out too much about what's happening with Kickstarter right now. It's not deceitful or underhanded. It's not a conspiracy. It's normal stuff, whether you like it or not. If Broken Age wasn't a Kickstarter game the first time you would have heard about it would be a couple months from ship, and that it was a two-part adventure game. And you would have been fine with that.

Our game is coming along better than I could have imagined, even if delayed. BECAUSE it's delayed. I'm super happy with it. Other companies have way bigger problems, but that's game development. NOW YOU KNOW. I sincerely hope everything works out the best for them, and you should too. At the end of the day, they're nice guys trying to make good entertainment for you. I, personally, will cut them all the slack in the world.

So there you have it. The games industry! The aristocrats! Maybe it'll get better someday? For now, let's enjoy our time together! (I love you).

-Alex

sfeldkamp
07-08-2013, 05:49 PM
I'm struggling to contain myself to cautious optimism about this game. The pieces sound great, I hope the sum is greater.

Regarding Kickstarter, it's really blurred the line between customer and stakeholder. A lot of projects are messaging their backers in the same way they would customers. That's not always well received by people who see themselves as something more. Lot's of lessons to be learned from this model, here's to hoping TBS will be a model to follow.

GreenDread
07-08-2013, 06:35 PM
Thanks for the great update!
Very interesting facts about game development and actually something that brings a new perspective to this whole topic of anticipation of game features and why there are still unfinished games that get released.

After all, take your time and I'm still so glad that I joined this journey :)

Isterio
07-09-2013, 02:38 AM
First of all, thank you very much for the update. It was an interesting read and I'm glad that you're confident about how everything's going. The game has me excited and I can't wait to get my hands on it. It's like waiting to unwrap Christmas presents. I trust you to deliver greatness!

I also respect the frank comment about how the game industry currently works and what your thoughts are about some of the little "kickstarter scandals". You mentioned Double Fine and Shadowrun Returns. Here are my thoughts:

In general:
You're a game developer developing games. You're in the same industry as double fine and even though you're in some way „competition“, you're in the same business and share the same environment. It's no surprise that you share that viewpoint, since the same thing could happen to you. That's why it's in your interest to defend/explain other developers on kickstarter in order to get the same understanding and support.
That said, I respect that you and them seem to have the best interest for the backers in mind. I see how the kickstarter developers try to cause as few problems for the backers as possible. You're good people with good intentions.
All the developers and the backers want, is that games can be developed more freely without the restrictions of publishers and their influence on the game in „production“. Thanks to kickstarter we're able to see awesome projects like yours. It's a dream come true. Sadly we see some problems surface, which could harm the trust of the backers in the game developers. However, I'm sure they can and will be overcome. It's just a matter of staying calm and honest (for both sides) to search the dialogue and to listen.

Kickstarter as a new kind of publisher:
It is true that there is now no more buffer/cushion between the developer and the customer. And because of the recent problems people realise that maybe the "evil" publishers had some use afterall. By taking risks and keeping some focus on organisational and economical issues, they gave some kind of stability. Alex, you yourself say that now the customer sees behind the curtain and has to get used to certain normalities that might be considered unpleasant (higher budgets needed and delays).
In the mind of many backers/gamers the developers were the victims of the publisher's greed. They were regarded as useless tyrants with mountains of cash aquired by sucking dry the gamers wallets. Now without them us gamers see that this was a blue eyed point of view. Developers also make mistakes or are even less „reliable“ because there is no publisher with the whip standing behind them and looking over their shoulders. So at least it seems.
I think that both, the developers and the players/backers have to adjust their way of thinking. The backers have to continue trusting the developer and being patient, while the developers have to be more responsible, since there is no more publisher to blame.

Double Fine:
I was very surprised reading about this. Double Fine was asking for 300k, they have received 3mio thanks to Tim Schafer and now they have money issues? That was 10 times more, than they asked for.
You must admit that this looks bad. You can't really blame the backers to say: „WTF?“
I think the problem here was that they didn't have a detailed concept/plan at the beginning. There was really no clear information about the intentions and how they would like to get there. It looks like they have made it up on the go. Other projects on kickstarter were presentet far more professional.
Honestly, it seems to me that they still don't have very much or good material that would show that the 3mio were well invested. Maybe they just didn't communicate their achievements properly yet. I don't know.
Most of the backers seem to be fine with the delay. They don't have to pay more. They just need to be more patient. As long as the game finishes and matches expectations, it's going to be fine. The panicked cry came more from the media, I dare say.
Double Fine seem to do what they can and they're at least honest. That's good, right?
Shadowrun Returns as well made a mistake and tried to find the best solution for the backers. That's how it should be. We can't expect the developers to stop making mistakes. Sh*t happens.


STOIC and Multiplayer Part Factions:
Alex, here I must scold you a little. Please be aware that your dream of your awesome game coudln't have been realised without the money from kickstarter (I assume). The backers are an ideological bunch of people and they/we are also customers. And it's always best to treat the customer like a king or at least show him or her respect. I'm not saying you don't! I just want to make a point.
The game developers used kickstarter to find investors for their ideas so that they could work freely and do realise their vision. The backers bought that vision by investing money and trust in advance. The backers want to see more GOOD games, where the best part isn't the marketing. Most backers on kickstarter, I dare say, don't like the trend of the AAA productions and certain instruments used by the publishers.
The kickstarter backers fleed from publishers with their F2P, microtransactions, DLCs, marketing blabla, gore, action, awesome buttons, auto reg health, cover systems etc.
That in mind what does STOIC do? Launching the MP demo „factions“ with a micro transaction system. And only just now you more or less told us why this was done. The signal sent by this was negative. And STOICs communication also didn't manage to explain the need/reason to calm down the mood.
My question is: Why to make it look like STOIC wants to „bleed the loyal gamers dry“, instead of talking to a bank for a loan? Lets be honest. The micro transaction system was easier and less risky. And it would have been less of a problem, if it would have been introduced in advance in a humble way. „Dear backers, we feel the need to deliver the best game possible to you and we had some great things integrated to the game. Sadly we need some more time and money to finish. We wouldn't dare expecting any more money from you, but we have a plan to raise the rest so that the game will be one step closer to perfection. Here is, what we're going to do... Don't worry, it doesn't mean we will implement anything like this in the main game or have any other bad surprises... etc.


Replying to your personal opinion:
Why is having more money a problem? I think the developers have to control their ambition a bit so that the planning works out more or less. Alex, you say yourself that delays and budget increases are normal. Why don't the developers then just calculate with have of the incoming money and take the second half as security? If there is money left, create additional content as DLCs for free or test it longer.
Isn't it better to have a finished ALMOST perfect game, instead of an unfinished PERFECT game? If it's modulized, you can still improve it afterwards, yes? The end consumer reacts more sensitive, if they're asked for more money after making a pre-payment already. Unlike the publishers, we're not (yet) used to it.
Kickstater is something great. But if the backers lose trust because of changing circumstances and problems then this great idea will fall apart. So the backers have to cut the developers some slack and in return the developers have to plan better and keep their creative spirits a little tiny bit in check. The backers don't have the power to be their controllers. So the developers need to control themselves.

I didn't mean anything in an offensive or negative way. I just tried to explain my point of view as a backer. Kickstarter is great, you guys at STOIC are great and we backers/gamers are great as well :D

Leartes
07-09-2013, 03:35 AM
Nice post Isterio. I'm not entirely sure where people got the idea that stoic wants to bleed the gamers dry. They stated really on release of factions why they did the combat demo and within a week or two they stated their further plans. Also they stated that the prizing was not set for high revenu but to open an avenue to support the dev team for everyone. I, e.g., am no kickstarter backer and I happily took the chance to donate some money via factions. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to get negative ideas out of peoples minds.

On money being a problem, if you have a plan to make a game that requires roughly 300k more money, you are happy when you get that. You are even more happy when you get 400 or 500k because now you have a safety net and you can get some more polish here and there etc. When you get 3 million you have to scrap your plan for the game you wanted to make and start from scratch (or you just split the 2.5 million you don't need as bonus among your employers). Scaling up is a huge problem as it eats some money and then, if you miss your mark you can't fix problems easily. Like if you estimate 300k is enough and you need 350k chances are good you can somehow make it. If you rescale for an estimate of 3 million and you miss the mark, then you are screwed. Doubly if you got no experience with such large budgets increasing errors.
The easiest way out is to split the large budget into lots of small sized chunks and work in your comfort zone. Lower risk, you can deliver as soon as one part is done and if the money runs out you can abort without scraping the whole project.

Just compare two games, both cost 500k to make. One is super successful post release and gets 5 million from sales. The other gets a huge kickstarter for 5 million. The money from the first game goes into development of the next game. The money from kickstarter (should) got to the game itself. Unfortunately you can't make it 10 times better with that money. Usually you can't make it 2 times better by incresing the budget tenfold.

Aleonymous
07-09-2013, 03:53 AM
For me (also not a KS-backer), the question to be posed is how should a project deal with a KS-funding that greatly exceeds its initial target. So, should they...


... say "no more money, thanks; we'll do what we wanted in the first place"?
... announce big delays, and try to "augment" the project in various different directions?
... freak-out and try to increase their man-power, outsource stuff, get loans, pillage backers?
... have planned-ahead (and provide different goals & shipping dates) for this extra money coming in ?

Obviously the course #4 seems the best one, but, all those courses mean that a compromise has to be made between: (1) improving overall project quality vs (2) respecting estimated shipping date. If a project fails on both accounts, well... :p

Leartes
07-09-2013, 04:18 AM
4. ... have planned-ahead (and provide different goals & shipping dates) for this extra money coming in ?


I don't really think you can make detailed plans for winning the lottery.

Isterio
07-09-2013, 04:22 AM
Nice post Isterio. I'm not entirely sure where people got the idea that stoic wants to bleed the gamers dry. They stated really on release of factions why they did the combat demo and within a week or two they stated their further plans. Also they stated that the prizing was not set for high revenu but to open an avenue to support the dev team for everyone. I, e.g., am no kickstarter backer and I happily took the chance to donate some money via factions. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to get negative ideas out of peoples minds.


Thank you for your input, Leartes. I must admit that I don't enterly remember the communication at the introduction of "Factions". Sorry, if I wrote something untrue. I'm rather sure that I've read the statements, but since it didn't bother me much it must have slipped my mind. However, I do think that things like that must me communicated very carefully to avoid the gathering of mobs lighting torches.

Anyway, I find your explanation about the budget interesting.

Aleonymous
07-09-2013, 04:42 AM
I don't really think you can make detailed plans for winning the lottery.

Can't you? I'd have a million plans in my head. :D

Seriously now, I think that even a little planning-ahead -- or the mere fact that you anticipated such an event -- can help big time. (1) You have laid-out a crude plan, so that its easier to start paving the way, (2) you have some "legal precedence" regarding your commitments to the backers.

I'm not sure how small/medium/indie developers feel about their project hitting x7 times their target... Are they happy/enthusiastic/motivated or afraid/overburdened/anxious? :rolleyes:

raven2134
07-09-2013, 06:33 AM
Cool responses to the thread. I like how isterio emphasizes the need for both sides to step up and for dialogue to get more extensive.

I respect his POV too, well explained.

That said I want to clarify something as a backer as well. Im sure there are backers who see it this way too. Kickstarter isn't an investment model. It's a goodwill model. I understood this from the start. Ideally in a goodwill model the donator shouldnt expect a return.

The thing is kickstarter blurs the lines because to create an incentive for people to donate, project makers have rewards. In addition, games are a further subject that blurs the lines between business IT and Art. If you look at th origins of KS, it was originally for creative/art projects, not business ventures.

The entrance of games into KS though meant you had actual business projects/models needing funding, when the spirit of their place in KS was meant to be as a creative output, with ambiguous economic and material returns.

In short, games on KS were supposed to be like other creative projects and works of art. And backers weren't supposed to become investors or customers, but patrons. The fact a wonderful creative work was born into the world out of that patronage should have been the return itself.

Clearly though, it's easy to see where this starts going off the rail, and when/how the reality check sets in.

Last, a word on project management. Its easy to say you should have done this or that, and it's really easy to comment from the sidelines. But when your actually involved in it...it often feels like Murphy's law is always in effect. If something can go wrong, it will. The skill in project management is how to keep a project going and finishing on time. Some TBS backers were unreasonably angry about the delay in the game. The point was this wasn't the same project planned for 100k, cos they needed to execute a project for 700k. And believe me, there isn't a way to plan for getting 10x what you originally projected (they had initially wanted to Ks for 50k and an even smaller game)

Just my 2 cents

Isterio
07-09-2013, 11:41 PM
That said I want to clarify something as a backer as well. Im sure there are backers who see it this way too. Kickstarter isn't an investment model. It's a goodwill model. I understood this from the start. Ideally in a goodwill model the donator shouldnt expect a return.

The thing is kickstarter blurs the lines because to create an incentive for people to donate, project makers have rewards. In addition, games are a further subject that blurs the lines between business IT and Art. If you look at th origins of KS, it was originally for creative/art projects, not business ventures.

The entrance of games into KS though meant you had actual business projects/models needing funding, when the spirit of their place in KS was meant to be as a creative output, with ambiguous economic and material returns.

In short, games on KS were supposed to be like other creative projects and works of art. And backers weren't supposed to become investors or customers, but patrons. The fact a wonderful creative work was born into the world out of that patronage should have been the return itself.

Clearly though, it's easy to see where this starts going off the rail, and when/how the reality check sets in.


I must admit that I didn't ever see kickstarter as a place to promote art. In a way my ignorance for kickstarter's motives or history shames me. That said, I'm truly not very interested in art. My passion lies with good games, which could also be seen as a sort of art. I have been to Paris, seen the louvre, centre Pompidou, been to museums, exhibitions, vernissages, classic concerts etc. And although art is good for the soul, I rather enjoy playing a good game that allows interaction. We'll I enjoyed „Dear Esther“ as well and there is no real interaction.

Some games might really be seen as art, but some clearly aren't. In my opinion indie productions resemble art more, than AAA titles. Because the AAA titles start with the questions „Is it a strong franchise? What is our target group? How do we max the sales numbers?“. That's why you usually have white male protoganists, lots of attractive young women in it and impressive visual effects. To be very blunt and by risking to offend the STOIC team (as game creators): ME3 isn't art. It's not. It's a product and it can be seen as a good game. Otherwise every mass produced Chinese product would have to be called art in a certain way.

The games on kickstarter probably tend being art because it primarily is about the realisation of a certain vision and not about primarily being a business. However, the communication in order to get as many doners/backers as possible and the presentation of the incentives suggests that it's not just for the good of the art. In some videos you hear stuff like: „Kickstarter is the way to give you the game you want. We work freely without the influence of publishers...“. That's how the games on kickstarter recruited me. It's not because I'm super cultivated and would do anything to promote art. It's because I'm a gamer and I want games with quality. For that I'm willing to do a prepayment, be trustful and patient. In the end I either expect my digital copy of the game or the money back, should it never be finished. That might sound selfish, but on the other hand I also doubt that the developers donate all the profits they get from the finished game. As I understand it, it's „tit for tat“.

The appearance of projects on kickstarter that are about games was in my eyes a movement of „let's go back to the roots. Give us your trust and money and we create something „more pure/retro“ again. I think many people see it this way. The ones who want to promote art probably donate to the tiers without digital copy of the game and higher, than 100 USD. And you get „selfish“ people like me, if kickstarter gets so much media attention.

@Stoic ... I respect you guys and I know you are going to create a great game, which I'm going to enjoy a lot. I'll most likely call it a good game and maybe even art. However, please be aware that your backers are not 100% art lovers. Some of them, like me, see themselves as kind of benevolent customer. This implies certain expectations and explains certain „harsh“ reactions to delays or other complications. But in the end the „art lovers“, you and us „customers“ just want a great game. There is no need for arguments, but for understanding each others point of view.

Sorry for the long post again :D

raven2134
07-10-2013, 03:08 AM
That's cool I think. There does seem to be a big hoopla right now surrounding KS because of the recent stuff going on with Double Fine and other game project kickstarters. I do think there is something different about games, compared to the other projects Kickstarter seems to fund. Maybe they as an organization/institution also need to reflect on how the various things they mediate for, differ from each other and may require more rigid guidelines.

Goreshank
07-10-2013, 07:03 PM
Thanks for the update. Not that my opinion matters much, but I'm happy your team is taking the extra time to make the game bigger and better. Keep working hard and updating us when necessary, and you will have no complaints from me.