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Amaror
01-15-2014, 02:22 PM
Let me start by saying that i do enjoy the game and think that the devs did a very good job

BUT:
A lot of very important things are never shown or explained and it ca be really frustrating.

Story(Decisions):
Now this game is very heavy on decisions and it's really really frustrating how unclear they can be. I am not that far into the game and it already happened a few times that i chose a decision, thinking it meant something different.
This i an absolut no go for a story - heavy game like this. On top of that, when i want to rectify the mistake i always have to play the entire chapter again. That's really annoying.
Let me give 2 examples.

In one sequence you beat up a guy that doesn't want to follow you. Later he then asks to join your guard. You are presented with 3 choices. The other two were both really rude so i thought the answer "Guard me, You" meant something like: "Awesome, you really want to protect me?". I chose it and my character basically mocked him and he left. A simple tooltip saying "Refuse him" would have made everything perfectly clear.

In another sequence you see a village attacked by dregh. Your mate then advises you to lure them out and the game presents you with the options to charge into the town or don't. But when you say you don't want to charge into town, the game thinks you just want to go away and you don't engage the enemy. This is rediculous! The guy is giving me advice and i don't get the choice to follow it?! Again simple tooltips saying "Engage" "Don't engage" would have made everything perfectly clear, but instead i am ragequiting because i don't want to replay the same chapter another time.
I am not a fan of save - scumming, so i don't really mind the save system, but either allow more saves or make decisions perfectly clear. It's just frustrating as it is now.

Mechanics:
Another thing, but not as important as the first one, is that a lot of the mechanics are not made clear.
The ability descriptions are really really bad. Not one of them told me without a doubt what the ability actually does. You can't descibe them in just one sentence, it's not understandable. Don't say "Attacks enemy with +1 str and ..." but rather "Damages target and enemies around him." And give additional damage stats after that. Not everything in one sentence.
Also i noticed that differend weapons can to different things, like spears do a lot of damage against un - armored targets. And Axes hit the enemies behind the attacked enemy, too. I don't think this is every explained in the actual game.

Dysp
01-15-2014, 03:53 PM
Part of the fun of the decision system is that you don't always know what's going to happen. If you were explicitly told the outcome of each decision, then it wouldn't be that interesting. I found that the best parts of the story in the game were from when I made bad decisions.

Generalized example:
Option 1 (add character to party)
Option 2 (kills character)
Option 3 (kills team member B)

If you knew you were going to lose a unit from a decision beforehand, then you'd probably never take that option.

Slimsy Platypus
01-15-2014, 04:09 PM
I certainly agree Dysp that we don't need to be told our outcomes, but in the cases (like war) right now players have no idea what they are choosing because it's simply unclear what "charge in" means (and that is one among many of the examples I can think of where the text does not accurately represent the action that follows). The OP's accidental city bypass is a prime example.

RabbitBee
01-15-2014, 04:13 PM
I think the point is more - You can't get an accurate sense of the tone you're meant to be saying each option in. "Guard me, you?" could be meant with either sarcasm OR surprise but its not clear in that particular case. For example Dragon Age added symbols to their dialogue system to indicate how each option will be said.

I ended up doing the same thing for that choice, however the choice I made prior was more passive, so when it came to choosing "Guard me, you?" he decided he would prove himself in the next battle, and he's now a member of my party.

I don't think it needs to be spelled out, but tone is only implied and its not always super obvious what it's supposed to be.

Rymdkejsaren
01-15-2014, 04:29 PM
I agree that some dialogue choices could use clarification, and it should be easy to do without giving away the total end result. I have also been disappointed at times with a result that did not entirely make sense to me.

Cystennin
01-16-2014, 03:58 AM
Amaror, among the two examples you mentioned the first one (with the potential varl champion) was perfectly clear to me. And I'm not even a native English speaker. The skeptical tone here is perfectly recognizable, you just have to think about what you read. As for the second example (the dredge-infested village), I found it a bit unclear as well. I wasn't too keen on fighting in close quarters, since Mogr didn't advise it, but I didn't expect my whole army to just stroll by and onwards, leaving a pack of bloodthirsty fiends in the rear. For now, however, I don't consider this to be a major issue, since the manner in which the choices are presented in TBS is generally very entertaining and thought-provoking.

Slimsy Platypus, in fact, every war option (like "Charge in!", "Formations" etc.) has a confirmation screen following your choice, where the effects are concisely described. I personally haven't yet found a reason to use anything apart from "Charge", but I think I have an idea as to what other options do.

roder
01-16-2014, 04:45 AM
@Cys, i actually had no clue, I played mostly "Formations" because I felt it was safer for my army to do that instead of charge in all the time. I did not know it was about my party of 6 charging in, not my entire army, until like halfway in the game, when i tried different options, then it made sense.

Amaror
01-16-2014, 05:40 AM
Part of the fun of the decision system is that you don't always know what's going to happen. If you were explicitly told the outcome of each decision, then it wouldn't be that interesting. I found that the best parts of the story in the game were from when I made bad decisions.

Generalized example:
Option 1 (add character to party)
Option 2 (kills character)
Option 3 (kills team member B)

If you knew you were going to lose a unit from a decision beforehand, then you'd probably never take that option.

I am not saying that we should be given the outcomes, but just what the decision means and what our character intends to do.
I played a bit further and didn't get any more confusing decisions but they should still fix the ones that are confusing.
I don't want to know what happens from a choice, but what the choice means.
I want to know if "Keep your distance" means "Lure them out" or "Run like a little bitch"

Equlan
01-16-2014, 05:47 AM
@Cystennin: About the war options, you're right there's a confirmation screen. However, it ought to be relatively simple to clarify the first screen. Besides that, the first time you reach the war screen, you don't know there is a confirmation screen.
It might not be a huge issue, but it definitely is an issue, and one that should be both pretty easy to fix, while also being (in my opinion) somewhat symptomatic of a general issue with the game.
Many choices are perfectly clear, but many others are pretty murky in my opinion.

Leartes
01-16-2014, 07:30 AM
Actually I don't think most choices are unclear. If you are nice to everyone they might well backstab you. If you are angry with everyone they might dislike you. If you are greedy and take risks you might lose sometimes. If you are cautious stuff is usually fine, but not optimal in most cases.

What is not so clear to me is, what do I get by having more people (apart from eating more stuff). And how many supplies should I buy with renown to savely make it to the next town? It'd be nice if on the map you could see the expected travel distance to the next town (ignoring small camps etc).

Equlan
01-16-2014, 07:44 AM
@Leartes: I disagree, but I think you're sligthly misunderstanding what I mean (if you were replying to me at all). I'm not asking for the consequences to be clear in advance. Not at all, that would be boring.
My problem is that there quite often are choices, where the intent of each option is unclear. I'm at work currently so I can't provide a lot of good examples. But the one about entering a dredge-infested village or moving around it was one. And I've felt similarly in many other cases.
I don't want to be told in advance that I will be moving around the village without a fight. But I do want to be told in advance, that that is what I am choosing to attempt.
But currently this is not clear to me in many cases. In many others it is, but that doesn't help in the cases where it isn't ;)

Cystennin
01-16-2014, 07:52 AM
Equlan

Besides that, the first time you reach the war screen, you don't know there is a confirmation screen.
That is very true. Having burned myself with rash decisions before, I spent several minutes wondering what each option would do. Had no clue I could re-think it.

Leartes

It'd be nice if on the map you could see the expected travel distance to the next town (ignoring small camps etc).
They kind of have that already. I mean, you can simply look at the map and measure the distance by sight. Granted, during the first travel you have no estimate, but the camps and supply-replenishing events are so frequent at this time, that you can get by with minimal provisions.

Krull
01-16-2014, 08:26 AM
Hello sir,
I rather did not read further because I am afraid that more spoilers will pop up, but for me, the reaction:

"Awesome, you really want to protect me?"

Is pretty self explanatory. It is an obvious mocking and thus the way how that foe reacted should be expected. Well of course that you can't expect the action which followed but come on, if you choose the worst answer, don't expect honey from that person..

Rensei
01-16-2014, 10:36 AM
I agree the descriptions were not always clear, but I'd much rather guess what exactly is going to happen (and face the consequences of guessing wrong), then have to deal with "top - good, mid - neutral, bottom - renegade, left - end it, right - dig deeper" bullshit. This is one of the things that killed Dragon Age 2 for me.

Kletian999
01-16-2014, 01:39 PM
Amaror: Mechanics: Those observations you made aren't hidden, they are spelled out in the stat descriptions of the heroes of their passive power. Archers get a bonus to armor broken targets when they don't move, any Warrior class creates an echo with his regular attack. Abilities are described as doing 1+str damage because of the Str/armor calculation that normally dictates damage.