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thelastofthefirst
01-17-2014, 06:06 PM
Good Day,

I just reached the ( what i think ) is the final battle of the game, the fight against Bellower.

Just before starting the fight, i can choose my final Party from all the best units i got to love, or so i thought.

But it seems this last mission was not intended for for my preferred party. :(

For most of the game i was annoyed i always had to have Rook forced into my battles, because he had no role i wanted him to have.

When he finally reached rank 5 ( which involved a lot of feeding him 1-health enemies ), i had him on armor-breaking duty until he would be unconscious, which was a workable solution for his forced appearance.

This party restriction thing was tolerable until now, but now it breaks my game.

I want to go into the final battle with Gunnulf, Mogr, Oddleif, Nid, Krumr, Eyvind and sure i could take Rook this final time too. These are all rank 5.

But no matter who carries the Silver Arrow, Alette is forced into the final party.

I hardly ever used Alette and had send her to the bench as soon as possible, she is rank 1 with 1 kill.

Now i have to go into battle with her because i cannot remove her from the party after she gets force-added just before the battle.

This makes zero sense to me because when i pick Rook to carry the Arrow, what point is it to have her in the party ? :confused:

Oddleif and Nid are far better suited to carry the Arrow, given they are my preferred longrange units, and are extremely good at dealing tons of armor damage in 1 turn which is the essence to the final battle.

To make things even worse, in my current party Iver has -3 health from his last battle, and the game refuses me to replace him for somebody else.

Basically this means i have to face Bellower with a character I would exchange if i could ( Rook ), a very injured unit ( Iver ) and a useless rank 1 archer ( Alette ), while for my playstyle much better units are idling on the bench.

Naturally i am curbed to dust in the final mission, and after 10 or so tries i have given up on it. :mad:

I never lost a single battle the whole game, sure there have been tough moments but i always managed to pull through ( which is nice in retrospect given the abysimal savepoint system ).

Does this mean because the game forces some units into the final fight i cannot finish the battle or am i missing something ?

Or is the intention that if i don't use Alette from day 1 i am supposed to loose the game ?

I really wish there would be no party restrictions at all ( other than story fights like Iver vs Bellower on the bridge) , the story is carried by choice options and not the battles themselves anyway.

I mean what point is there to have a selectable party if the Devs want me to use a specific set of units all game long ?

And why am i punished without warning on last minute for not using Alette ?

Aleonymous
01-18-2014, 09:13 AM
Hello! This has been reported here (http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?2067). It constitutes a problem sure, I agree...

Slimsy Platypus
01-18-2014, 11:52 AM
Hey there! I know exactly what you mean as an injured Iver and rank 1 alette made it feel like I couldn't complete my last play through on hard. One thing you can do to progress, is turn down the difficulty to easy and the battle becomes very easily manageable. Hope that helps!

thelastofthefirst
01-18-2014, 11:54 AM
Well thanks for pointing out that this seems to be a common problem, but still if the Devs know that Alette has to be in the final battle why didn't they make it so she is forced into the game from the start ?

They did that with Rook and Iver too, afterall, they are both forced into battle all game long and forced into the final fight.

Frustrated and unwiling to replay the whole game just for this oversight i watched the ending on Youtube and i think this might be the worst party-mechanic i ever had to deal with in any game.

It makes no sense to have her when Rook carries the Arrow, storywise Alette could stand near the battlefield and watch rook get killed after he shoots it.

I was led to believe i have a choice in having Alette along or not the whole game long, now on the very last battle i am being punished for it.

I think the Devs should either just abandon the whole 'Pick your own party'-feature or lift the party restrictions alltogether.

Because in the current state this is just an insult to those who did not know they have to drag Alette along all the time.

Combined with the very annoying and totally restrictive savepoint system the whole game now feels like a huge mispurchase, which is quite sad considering the great story and lovable artwork.

Rensei
01-18-2014, 01:31 PM
The final battle is not about winning, but about certain actions (break 5 armour on Bello, shoot him with arrow and kill Bello) as far as party goes You need Rook with maxed str and the +3 glove, level 2 Nid and some breakers.

I agree though that we should be able to finally create an all-star team and send it at Bello, no gimmicks, just a tough mofo that needs to be outwitted.

Mhorhe
01-18-2014, 05:07 PM
The final battle is not about winning, but about certain actions (break 5 armour on Bello, shoot him with arrow and kill Bello) as far as party goes You need Rook with maxed str and the +3 glove, level 2 Nid and some breakers.

I agree though that we should be able to finally create an all-star team and send it at Bello, no gimmicks, just a tough mofo that needs to be outwitted.

That's a really odd and specific way of looking at things :confused: It assumes either Rook or Alette are rank 5, have maxed str, and you're willing to use the gloves on them. Furthermore, it assumes your archer will not lose any Str to Bellower's bellows before placing the shot.

Needless to say, besides this very specific situation, having 3 characters imposed on us for the final battle - especially in a game where for the longest time you can't really be sure of anyone but Rook surviving.. - is.. not the best way to go about things :D

I had a rank 2 Alette and a rank 4 Rook.. it was a chore, I'll tell you that much.

Bastilean
01-19-2014, 03:05 AM
That's a really odd and specific way of looking at things :confused: It assumes either Rook or Alette are rank 5, have maxed str, and you're willing to use the gloves on them. Furthermore, it assumes your archer will not lose any Str to Bellower's bellows before placing the shot.

Needless to say, besides this very specific situation, having 3 characters imposed on us for the final battle - especially in a game where for the longest time you can't really be sure of anyone but Rook surviving.. - is.. not the best way to go about things :D

I had a rank 2 Alette and a rank 4 Rook.. it was a chore, I'll tell you that much.

Bello was easy. There is a +3 Armor break item I equipped on her. I put that on Alette and had 3 armor break on her. If she is level 1 just equip her bracelet.

Rook is awesome, if only because he can get 2+ party members attacking at the same time. He is a complete rofl-stomper with good armor break as described by the OP.

Iver is just as strong after he gets his arm ripped off, but you have to make sure you respend his level up points, because he is basically a hybrid class after his mender surgery and needs those points redistributed. How you didn't notice by now is beyond me. His max health/strength is actually 2 points higher than when he carried a shield. His main drawback is his max armor break went down by 1. Also, I don't like sending a cripple into battle: it feels wrong. Give the man a purple heart and send him home.

Someone mentioned Nid. Nid has better stats at lvl 1 than Alette had at level 4. Wow. Yeah I used her too.

I really wanted to use Gunnulf, because he is magical when he lays the wood, but he was wounded in the previous fight and I accomplished it without him. Hakon was a big help in the laying the wood.

Not sure why you would want Eyvind. He is practically useless in the battle against bello. Keep in mind your main aim is to focus fire on Bellower not kill all his minions. After I reduce the strength of the 18 strength slag down to 10 I assume the extra enemies keep Bellower from one shotting my party members each turn.

I agree that Alette should not be forced into the last fight. I do hope there is a different ending if I have rook carry the arrow. This seems astonishingly rail-roaded otherwise.

Aleonymous
01-19-2014, 04:12 AM
I don't mind Alette & Rook being in the final battle, but there should be some story event that makes it so.

Taking up a suicide mission hardly seems like the place where a father would wanna bring his daughter along :) If Rook gives the arrow to Alette, it's OK that he comes along; it makes sense, but, not the other way around. In the latter case (Rook has the arrow), I'd have put Alette as the 7th team member who somehow "sneaked" along with the 6 commandos. Perhaps she can be AI-controlled (attacking the Dredge of course) if we don't want her messing up our queue.

thelastofthefirst
01-19-2014, 08:58 AM
Iver is just as strong after he gets his arm ripped off, but you have to make sure you respend his level up points, because he is basically a hybrid class after his mender surgery and needs those points redistributed. How you didn't notice by now is beyond me.

You did not understand or did not read all of my post.

I am very well aware of the ripped-off arm and its effects, but he has minus 3 health ( AKA being wounded for 3 days ) from the battle just before the final one.

I cannot let him camp for 3 days to heal the damage, there is no camp option.

This has nothing to do with restributing points or his ripped-off arm, he is simply wounded in a game-mechanic manner.

The enemies will almost always go for armor on high-armor units which makes sense, but now they are attacking his health right away.

And i always used Eyvind to repair the armor of the Tank(s), which so far worked extremely well considering i only have items that draw aggro on my tanks and lower aggro for my supporters/archers.

People seem to say it is doable with a fully ranked Alette and healthy Iver, while those of us who did not rank Alette and have a wouned Iver have problems with it.

That clearly shows that the final battle was designed for a specific set of units and playstyle, or atleast nobody in Q&A ( if there were any, considering the savepoint system ) did their job right.

This all reminds me a bit of how in "Deus Ex : Human Revolution" you have all those different choices in playing it stealthy or just shoot everything up, but the bosses were incredibly unbalanced for stealth characters because of the focus on raw firepower against them.

Grimreapo
01-19-2014, 10:02 AM
I think I am in the same boat as the OP, though the game I used Rook and the Insane Spearman as my main armour breakers but after I said that Rook would take the arrow (I hardly used Alette, so why would I bring her to the final battle?) and that means that my main armour breaker, the guy who I used from the start of the game to break amour will get taken out by Belltower and the second phase is hard as I lack any armour damage dealers in the party as the other one who got damaged in an earlier fight. Throw in weak morale I'm not sure how I can win using this line up:
185

I really like the game but I know that if I could ditch Iver and Alette I think I could stand a chance but I cant get rid of them and whilst Demon's/Dark Souls also had a system where a single from of income paid for leveling up and items at least in those you could revisit areas for more Souls unlike here has 3 MAJOR things that Renown has to be invest in and you get so little of it...

Lochlan
01-19-2014, 03:58 PM
I don't think Iver is mandatory...at least he wasn't for me (maybe it is dependent on previous choices?). I used Rook, Alette, Tryggvi, Mogr, Hakon, and Griss.

Rensei
01-19-2014, 04:45 PM
That's a really odd and specific way of looking at things :confused: It assumes either Rook or Alette are rank 5, have maxed str, and you're willing to use the gloves on them. Furthermore, it assumes your archer will not lose any Str to Bellower's bellows before placing the shot.
Like I said - I do agree the fight could have been planned differently and actually challenging and would like to be able to pick the best out of my two teams and test them out.

However still I think it's silly to assume the main character would not be required to participate in the final battle - I was expecting Hakon instead of Alette, and was attempting pacifist Alette achievement, so it got me off guard, but it was more of an annoyance and hardly game breaking.

Grimreapo
01-19-2014, 06:01 PM
I don't think Iver is mandatory...at least he wasn't for me (maybe it is dependent on previous choices?). I used Rook, Alette, Tryggvi, Mogr, Hakon, and Griss.

I wish he was, I really do but the game says I need him (full screen so you can see):
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1135x709q90/203/zuwb.jpg
Its so annoying as somehow I can get the bell tower down to phase two and down to 5 strength but the line just falls apart and Alette gets one shotted by any dredge unit, I am finding how to get some damage from her but Iver is just dead weight and when he is not being stunned locked from the screams he dies to pretty much anything...
:(

Abishai
01-19-2014, 06:35 PM
I wish he was, I really do but the game says I need him (full screen so you can see):
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1135x709q90/203/zuwb.jpg
Its so annoying as somehow I can get the bell tower down to phase two and down to 5 strength but the line just falls apart and Alette gets one shotted by any dredge unit, I am finding how to get some damage from her but Iver is just dead weight and when he is not being stunned locked from the screams he dies to pretty much anything...
:(

Iver was not in my final fight.

Abishai
01-19-2014, 06:37 PM
I didn't have Iver in my final fight.

Mhorhe
01-20-2014, 02:19 AM
Bello was easy. There is a +3 Armor break item I equipped on her. I put that on Alette and had 3 armor break on her. If she is level 1 just equip her bracelet.

Rook is awesome, if only because he can get 2+ party members attacking at the same time. He is a complete rofl-stomper with good armor break as described by the OP.

Iver is just as strong after he gets his arm ripped off, but you have to make sure you respend his level up points, because he is basically a hybrid class after his mender surgery and needs those points redistributed. How you didn't notice by now is beyond me. His max health/strength is actually 2 points higher than when he carried a shield. His main drawback is his max armor break went down by 1. Also, I don't like sending a cripple into battle: it feels wrong. Give the man a purple heart and send him home.

Someone mentioned Nid. Nid has better stats at lvl 1 than Alette had at level 4. Wow. Yeah I used her too.

I really wanted to use Gunnulf, because he is magical when he lays the wood, but he was wounded in the previous fight and I accomplished it without him. Hakon was a big help in the laying the wood.

Not sure why you would want Eyvind. He is practically useless in the battle against bello. Keep in mind your main aim is to focus fire on Bellower not kill all his minions. After I reduce the strength of the 18 strength slag down to 10 I assume the extra enemies keep Bellower from one shotting my party members each turn.

I agree that Alette should not be forced into the last fight. I do hope there is a different ending if I have rook carry the arrow. This seems astonishingly rail-roaded otherwise.

Uh.. thanks? I think? I dunno? I wasn't looking for a tutorial on how to win the fight/play the game, nor was I moaning about difficulty. And you seem to have been skimming a bit - both the OP and my post. Yes, I had the +3 break item, except (as I had said) Alette was r2, and it was useless for Bellower purposes to use it on Rook. No, the magical bracelet does not magically turn an R2 Alette into a useful character, no. Yes, Rook is awesome - he's also just as awesome if you don't use up more Renown on him than R3, since his maxed special isn't anymore special than at rank 2, and for the rest he works as an archer mighty fine (I was trying to keep my caravan alive)

You seem to be laboring under a misapprehension that other builds are not suited to this battle. It should not be like that.



Like I said - I do agree the fight could have been planned differently and actually challenging and would like to be able to pick the best out of my two teams and test them out.

However still I think it's silly to assume the main character would not be required to participate in the final battle - I was expecting Hakon instead of Alette, and was attempting pacifist Alette achievement, so it got me off guard, but it was more of an annoyance and hardly game breaking.

Main character, yeah, sure, no issues there. But 3 characters? And it's not about being game breaking - though it is annoying - but rather about the fact it should be a lot more flexible. Dead Gods know, we get little enough flexibility in planning our party anyway.

hreinnbeno
01-20-2014, 03:31 AM
I think Alette is supposed to be in the final battle for some reason (probably because it is easier to code that way and say Dad no). While Iver is not. I believe that is a part of bug that causes that after einartoft (at least for my) if Iver and Rook were put in my lineup I couldnt get them out. Only reason that I didnt have Iver in last fight was because the program automatically took him out. But I would have put him in I wouldnt have been able to take him out.

Aleonymous
01-20-2014, 04:24 AM
Guys, guys... Rook, Alette & Iver are the three main characters of the game! That earns them the "right" to be in the last battle. I don't have a problem with that, I just wished that the supporting story-line (dialogues, events) "softly forced" those three in. Why would you wanna bring second-roles, like that prick Ludin, Tryggvi the "exclusive" or generic units like Gunnulf or Griss?

hreinnbeno
01-20-2014, 04:44 AM
Guys, guys... Rook, Alette & Iver are the three main characters of the game! That earns them the "right" to be in the last battle. I don't have a problem with that, I just wished that the supporting story-line (dialogues, events) "softly forced" those three in. Why would you wanna bring second-roles, like that prick Ludin, Tryggvi the "exclusive" or generic units like Gunnulf or Griss?

The truth is though. There is a bug going around that forces you to take Rook and Iver in all matches (because it was not my first run). In my second run after Einartoft, you couldnt take Rook or Iver out of the team. Even in the heroes tent in the camp. + I didnt need to take Iver in both of my runs to the final battle.

Rensei
01-20-2014, 04:59 AM
Uhhh Iver was not required for the last fight in ANY of my 3 games - different difficulties, times played (my experimetal 800days long run ^_^) and decisions each time. I watched someone stream the final and he also had only Rook and Alette "forced" (people really suck at saga tactics btw - he took a good two hours on Bello, and still didn't look like he was gonna make it when I left).

Grimreapo
01-20-2014, 07:30 AM
Uhhh Iver was not required for the last fight in ANY of my 3 games - different difficulties, times played (my experimetal 800days long run ^_^) and decisions each time. I watched someone stream the final and he also had only Rook and Alette "forced" (people really suck at saga tactics btw - he took a good two hours on Bello, and still didn't look like he was gonna make it when I left).
Well I posted an link that showed that that I HAD to use a heavily wounded Iver in the final battle, he is literally dead weight as he cant do any damage nor can he tank worth a damn, I been working so hard on belltower that I keep on getting him to low health but I just lacked a 2nd form of DPS other than Alette as I know I could do the battle if I replaced Iver with any archer then I could win...


Guys, guys... Rook, Alette & Iver are the three main characters of the game! That earns them the "right" to be in the last battle. I don't have a problem with that, I just wished that the supporting story-line (dialogues, events) "softly forced" those three in. Why would you wanna bring second-roles, like that prick Ludin, Tryggvi the "exclusive" or generic units like Gunnulf or Griss?
That sounds totally arbitrary but fine and if that is the case then why cant they get healed up before the final battle by a mender if you HAVE to take them? The whole system of injures and level up is all about cycling through your team mates just in case something goes wrong...

Aleonymous
01-20-2014, 07:53 AM
why cant they get healed up before the final battle by a mender if you HAVE to take them?

Oh, didn't you notice that it's a harsh world, out there? :D Why can't they all get Rank-5 magic-items just for that last battle, if they HAVE to be there?

Mhorhe
01-20-2014, 08:56 AM
Guys, guys... Rook, Alette & Iver are the three main characters of the game! That earns them the "right" to be in the last battle. I don't have a problem with that, I just wished that the supporting story-line (dialogues, events) "softly forced" those three in. Why would you wanna bring second-roles, like that prick Ludin, Tryggvi the "exclusive" or generic units like Gunnulf or Griss?

For one, that's debatable in my opinion - especially since the game does not (and a good thing too) telegraph that 2 out of those 3 will be alive/around for the last battle. Especially after Onef's rendition of the Red Wedding, I considered anything and everything possible.

For another, why limit the possible tactics for the final battle by forcing 3/7 slots?

For a third, one of the (small) bones I have to pick with Banner Saga is the limited way in which we can adjust our party during the campaign. You get 1 of each class, maybe (well except Thrasher Bros, and Strong Arm/Warhawk at the very end) with default stats set in stone. Not a good thing for replayability..not at all. This situation (of the final battle) is just more of that. Irksome.

Note that I thoroughly enjoyed both Rook and Iver, they're awesome (it helped that I could not get rid of them if I wanted to :D ) Alette, eh, not so much, both gameplay-wise and character-wise.


Uhhh Iver was not required for the last fight in ANY of my 3 games - different difficulties, times played (my experimetal 800days long run ^_^) and decisions each time. I watched someone stream the final and he also had only Rook and Alette "forced" (people really suck at saga tactics btw - he took a good two hours on Bello, and still didn't look like he was gonna make it when I left).

Just because it didn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen to anyone. I for one got the same bug as hreinnbeno, as in I couldn't remove Rook and Iver from my party at any time.

I.. don't understand why you'd state that generalization here, or even make it in the first place. I don't know who streamed that final, but it doesn't mean he's suddenly representative of the average people playing Banner Saga.


Oh, didn't you notice that it's a harsh world, out there? :D Why can't they all get Rank-5 magic-items just for that last battle, if they HAVE to be there?

Not nearly the same thing. You have a number of characters exactly because you're expected to have characters wounded and you can cycle them around, it's a gameplay mechanism. Except, suddenly, you can't..

Aleonymous
01-20-2014, 09:28 AM
Not nearly the same thing. You have a number of characters exactly because you're expected to have characters wounded and you can cycle them around, it's a gameplay mechanism. Except, suddenly, you can't..

I, for one, am perfectly fine with the game having Alette, Rook & Iver as the lead characters, and so it feels only natural that they are required to lead that final fight. That rotation-thing you guys mention is acceptable when it concerns random fights here-and-there... But would you have Aragorn rotated out of that Mordor-gate battle if he happened to be "slightly" injured? It's supposed to be his fight!

To clarify things, I wouldn't mind bringing whoever to the fight (e.g. having Oddleif or Nid carry that silver arrow) as long as it is justified by the story. My problem with that restriction is not I have to bring Alette, Rook & Iver, neither that they can't be healed... My problem is that this is not well explained by the story, it doesn't feel obligatory. If it did feel obligatory (i.e. bringing Al, Rook & Iv, in whichever state they were), we wouldn't have you guys complaining about it, would we? :)

roder
01-20-2014, 09:46 AM
yep I agree. if you said no to Alette, there should be an option for her not to come on the suicide mission at all. Doesnt make sense that Rook is worried so he wont give the arrow to Alette, but lets her tag along anyway.

as for Iver, i do agree this is his fight as well. for all we know he might be the reason bellower swung around and started chasing after them instead. but if he is heavily wounded (2 compounded injuriies) it definitely sucks to face bellower with him. but i guess that is the penalty for injuries :P

Mhorhe
01-20-2014, 12:28 PM
I, for one, am perfectly fine with the game having Alette, Rook & Iver as the lead characters, and so it feels only natural that they are required to lead that final fight. That rotation-thing you guys mention is acceptable when it concerns random fights here-and-there... But would you have Aragorn rotated out of that Mordor-gate battle if he happened to be "slightly" injured? It's supposed to be his fight!

To clarify things, I wouldn't mind bringing whoever to the fight (e.g. having Oddleif or Nid carry that silver arrow) as long as it is justified by the story. My problem with that restriction is not I have to bring Alette, Rook & Iver, neither that they can't be healed... My problem is that this is not well explained by the story, it doesn't feel obligatory. If it did feel obligatory (i.e. bringing Al, Rook & Iv, in whichever state they were), we wouldn't have you guys complaining about it, would we? :)

Not only does it not feel obligatory, story-wise it's actually counter-intuitive. Because Juno states that the reason she chose Rook for it was because Rook would be one who would make it because he would do anything to get back to his daughter.

Then, he suddenly decides taking said daughter with him into the maws of almost certain death. Uh. Wut.

As for the lead characters.. to each his own, but lead =/= (necessarily) LEAD. As for your LOTR analogy, Aragorn is not charging the Black Gate because it's his fight, and that's that.

Aragorn, Gandalf, and the cream of the Gondor army make a very visibile advance against Mordor to keep the eye of Sauron fixed on themselves and thus blind to the stealthing hobbits. Aragorn is essential here being the heir of Elendil and carrying the reforged Narsil and etc etc etc.

By comparison, Juno is sending what's basically a commando thrust to the throat. Efficiency is the only thing that matters, since she can't shield too many from the Dredge. She needs Rook, because reasons. For the rest, the most stalwart killers of Dredge, with/without Rook's choice of party.. and especially not Alette, since she's the stated reason Rook is going to pull through. So not only Alette should not be Rook's choice (as explained above) but she also can't be Juno's choice because of these twin reasons.

And yet.. alas :)

Lochlan
01-20-2014, 12:33 PM
The truth is though. There is a bug going around that forces you to take Rook and Iver in all matches (because it was not my first run). In my second run after Einartoft, you couldnt take Rook or Iver out of the team. Even in the heroes tent in the camp. + I didnt need to take Iver in both of my runs to the final battle.

Yup, looks like I am now having that problem in my current run. I feel like it's caused by fighting on the bridge three days in a row, but we would have to compare choices to figure that out.

Zebidia
01-20-2014, 01:35 PM
Yup, looks like I am now having that problem in my current run. I feel like it's caused by fighting on the bridge three days in a row, but we would have to compare choices to figure that out.

Hi all. I think this is simply a question of game balance. I went through the whole campaign on normal and while some of the fights were tough and I was down to my last couple of fighters at times, generally it struck the right balance of being challenging without being frustrating. I'd like to add that I find the games injury function to be a very successful one for that reason. But balance ended with the last fight where I have been wiped out in the second fight ad nauseum.

Regardless of the details of who you levelled up and how,the last fight simply shouldn't be such a step change of difficulty. Its a pity really because I thought the Devs had done a great job of balancing the game until that point.

I could keep replaying it until I finally win it but after eight fights and the same "you have failed" screen its segued from entertainment to perdition. My demoralised party doesn't seem to quite have the abilities that an ever regenerating, fight sequence jumping killer steel beastie requires. Equally I don't want to start all the way at the beginning again with an eye on customising characters to be able to win that last fight. Surely if your party was good enough to make it that far without a defeat, they should have been good enough to finish it. Apparently not. Damn shame I really liked the game up until that point.

Grimreapo
01-20-2014, 01:42 PM
Yup, looks like I am now having that problem in my current run. I feel like it's caused by fighting on the bridge three days in a row, but we would have to compare choices to figure that out.
Well I stayed on the bridge for 3 days as well, if its any help...

Rensei
01-20-2014, 03:07 PM
The more feedback I see here the more I wonder what did the beta team do all this time?

Mhorhe
01-20-2014, 03:58 PM
Well I stayed on the bridge for 3 days as well, if its any help...

And that makes 3 of us :)

Rensei
01-20-2014, 07:39 PM
Just because it didn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen to anyone. I for one got the same bug as hreinnbeno, as in I couldn't remove Rook and Iver from my party at any time.
Never claimed the thing I saw was what everyone will or should see. I just wanted to report how it looked on my side, possibly help nailing the bug. I am really not as terrible person as You, apparently, want to see me.


I.. don't understand why you'd state that generalization here, or even make it in the first place. I don't know who streamed that final, but it doesn't mean he's suddenly representative of the average people playing Banner Saga.
Sorry if it sounded offensive - wasn't meant to be. So far the majority of people visiting this forums were the ones, who had at least few Factions battles under their belt - seeing/hearing someone play Saga and being clueless about it was something new (fun, but a bit painful to watch).
By "people" I merely meant "some people" not "all the people that are not Rensei".

Valen-
01-20-2014, 10:13 PM
Yup, looks like I am now having that problem in my current run. I feel like it's caused by fighting on the bridge three days in a row, but we would have to compare choices to figure that out.

I back that up, make it 4. Seems like a bug to me.

ruprecht
01-21-2014, 12:29 AM
The end of the game completely ruined it for me.

Playing the game through for the first time, with zero knowledge of anything, and not being able to finish it based on the choices that I made along the way is horrible.

Absolutely horrible; I can't believe that I spent $20 on this.

Psilos
01-21-2014, 12:30 AM
With some trial and error I figured how to completely curb stomp Belower with Siege archer, Sky Striker, Rook, Alette a random varl and a strong arm. Basically I positioned my group in a square with archers at the front so that Belower does not push them back. Lay down an arrow trap to stop the first big dredge to move, move up with siege archer to armour break at 9 (base 3, with the +3 item and 3 exertion) have Rook move up and fire the arrow. Done with correct placement and some luck in the turn order (not sure whether it changes or not) I managed to finish the first phase without taking any real damage.

The second phase was basically just moving up and spamming Belower with ranged armour break, as he moves every time you hit him none of his henchmen get a chance to attack and by the time he walks around and reaches your group he should have 0 armour left. At that point he was conveniently positioned in front of the level 3 arrow trap I laid, pushed him in it with Iver and with pierce he took a total of 63 damage (20 from first arrow, then 21, and 22, killing him three times over).

With this technique a low rank Alette should not be too much of a problem if your other archers are ranked up.
Hope this help.

Mhorhe
01-21-2014, 01:19 AM
Never claimed the thing I saw was what everyone will or should see. I just wanted to report how it looked on my side, possibly help nailing the bug. I am really not as terrible person as You, apparently, want to see me.

My apologies, I did not mean to sound so offensive about it. I do not see you as a terrible person at all, merely as a fellow Banner afficionado :)



Sorry if it sounded offensive - wasn't meant to be. So far the majority of people visiting this forums were the ones, who had at least few Factions battles under their belt - seeing/hearing someone play Saga and being clueless about it was something new (fun, but a bit painful to watch).
By "people" I merely meant "some people" not "all the people that are not Rensei".

No no, it wasn't offensive, it just sounded slightly odd placed there. It could be read in a number of ways, some of them not too pleasant, but you really did not seem the type.

In any case I never meant that some people = people not Rensei, I'm sorry if it read that way.

Grimreapo
01-22-2014, 01:48 PM
At last a patch, now I can remove Iver and finish Belltower as I've been waiting for days!
*loads Banner Saga*
Wait... NO! NO! Still not letting me get him out of the party!
189

Ugh... I am half tempted to restart the game but I'll wait just in case anyone wants to check my save...

Rensei
01-22-2014, 04:13 PM
Bellower!
Belltower were the bad guys from DeusEx:HR.
As in bellows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellows) not a tower with a bell on it.

Grimreapo
01-22-2014, 04:53 PM
Bellower!
Belltower were the bad guys from DeusEx:HR.
As in bellows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellows) not a tower with a bell on it.
But then why would this humble gentleman say its Dongcity for Bellower?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1uIZJQkYOI
Unless they mean... ooooh now I get it....

Rensei
01-22-2014, 05:26 PM
Mostly because some Twitch chat confused kid apparently didn't know about puncture ability and thought 17 damage was something to write home about.

bob the builder
03-23-2014, 12:54 PM
By that logic, what if you levelled Krumr all game long and had him die right before the final battle? Or Egil, or half of all the other characters that can die at certain points after you've presumably built your team strategy around them? That is just as unfair, but it's part of the game's story of punishing consequences and the uncertainty of war. Alette wouldn't let her father go into the final battle alone, neither would Rook let his daughter go in alone if she was the arrow bearer.

Gameplay wise, the arrow bearer is out after the first, easy part of the boss battle, so you really only have to deal with one unwanted character in the second part. Alette can still break armor just fine (if absolutely necessary, go back to an earlier save and get her 2 kills so she can level up) and the puncture ability is excellent against Bellower.

Aleonymous
03-24-2014, 06:58 AM
Here's some thoughts of mine, on the topic, copy-pasted from the steam-forums:


Yes, Alette and Rook must be in the final battle. In a previous version (probably a bug), Iver was also forced in that group. A lot of people have whined about that. I was puzzled at first, too, but I then got over it.

Although it does make sense for all three of them to be there (being the main characters of the game), I believe the story doesn't "support" these forced-members too well. Lets see how:

Iver is generally a strong character, whom you surely have leveled enough, so he's very likely to be wanted around... Except if he's injured from previous battles! (Hard difficulty). This problem could be fixed if Juno somehow healed-up everybody before the final-fight...
Alette carrying the arrow means that Rook, her father, has every right to be coming along... Even if injured. Rook is also quite strong, and usually fairly leveled up. This choice-path is the most "sound", in my opinion.
Rook carrying the arrow means that Alette, his dear daughter, has every right NOT to be coming along, unless she somehow sneaks up or somethings. Moreover, many people didn't like putting her into fights (to get that "Innocent" achievement too), so it's very likely that she's not leveled enough for the fight. All in all, this last "choice-path" is the least well supported by the story. I'd fix it by having Alette sneak up with the group fighters, and only appearing/fighting in the 2nd part of the final battle, when you're left with only 5 characters.