PDA

View Full Version : The Banner Saga Mysteries and Unresolved plots List!



Nelson Rosenberg
01-20-2014, 10:22 AM
This has started in a thread in Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/app/237990...7377737863308/) but I figured the devs and the fans would have an easier time finding it here =)

For now it was created by me and I added a couple questions from a Steam user named WoodMan (Thanks!). Hope you like it and contribute with it!

Well, here is a list of things we would like to see addressed further on in chapter 2 and 3.

[SPOILERS] Obviously, but still, here is the warning.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Why did the sun stop? Where the gods responsible for moving the sun or the same thing that killed them also stopped the star?

- Who was Unnar? He had god-like powers.

- What happens to the dredge child?

- What happens to the frost child? Why did she spoke in a strange language? Couldn't the menders understand her? And how can she detect the Dredge?

- What happened in the caravan event just before Ridgehorn where Mogr runs after some ravens, jumps of a cliff and start flying right before bursting into flames? Was that an illusion? Caused by whom or what? And why only Hakon and Mogr experienced it but decided to keep it between them? Was that an omen?

- What is the serpent? Who sent it? It mentions it is just the hammer to the blacksmith.
- Is the giant serpent the sun god? (I believe one of the godstone stories said that some believe the Sun god is a giant serpent, and we also see the sun stopping as this serpent appears).
- It doesn't claim to be a god but it did say it came to eat the "tapestry" of the world but "The Darkness" came instead and now it can't eat it the way he wanted.

- What is the Darkness? What is causing it? If the serpent is meant to be the end of the world and it is incomplete (Why? Was it Juno?) who is causing the Darkness?

- Why are the Dredge invading? What are their motives? Are they really just running away from the Darkness?

- In fact,WHAT ARE the dredge? Are they using armor or is that their actual bodies? Who created them (Gods?), for what purpose (to unite men and Varl?), and why can they reproduce? Do they have a complex society? Are they really mindless and savage like the Varl think? Or is Iver the only one that knows more and the truth about the Dredge?
- Since Slingers seen to be a new type of Dredge tht was previously unknown, what are those blue "grenades" they throw made from? Is that magic? Alchemy?
- Speaking of Slingers, could the reason they have never been seen before is that they are the female of the species and never went to war? But now that they are running away they have to go with the males. The one you find dead with the baby is mentioned as a slinger, so adding to them running from the darkness, they brought their females and babies (which adds a kinda freaky point, if you see the slingers, a lot of them have some sort of bundle on their backs, maybe Dredge infants?!)

- Why did Bellower chase the caravan? Was he after Eyvind or Iver? Was he the husband of Raze?

- Are the gods really dead? And why? How did they die? Signs of the gods being alive can be seen in Unnar; in the pin with the dredge child; the winds that stop in one of the godstones and maybe in the worshipping dredge in Stravh's godstone.
- How does the world look with the gods actually "communicating" with it?

- Did Ludin killed Vognir? Why?

- What happened to Ubin's gold? You can try to recover it and send it to Strand. (Is this important? Gunnulf would give his life for it.) If you don't try to recover it Ludin will steal it and it's mentioned you can try to reclaim it later. Will this become important?

- What happened to Sigbjorn? He left my party when entering Boesgard. (Is this a bug?). Also, I told the Ravens about him and the mead, will he be punished?

- What happens to the Varl at Einartoft? What happens if I destroy the bridge right away? And if Iver destroys the bridge only after 3 days, does the delay change anything? What about if you try but surrender and don't destroy the bridge at all? Fasolt lives? (This is thought to be a bug. Should he die no matter what you do?) What is the Varl fate if I just leave? The outcome of the 4 scenarios is never mentioned.
- If Einartoft falls, who will become the new Varl king: Krumr, Iver, Hakon?

- What happened with Hakon's caravan after they left Einartoft? They where heading for Arberrang, how did they ended up in Boesgard? How did they find Juno?

- Hakon also mentions the damage the serpent did. What exactly was that damage and why is the serpent doing it?

- If Bellower was responsible for about every dredge incursion since the fall of Grofheim, where are the other Sundr? How many are there?

- Why was Rook choosen to kill Bellower? According to Juno he was the only one who had a reason and would always "come back" (from the dead?) for his daughter.

- Assuming you let Rook take the final shoot agains Bellower (as Juno intended when he was choosen), Iver mentions that Alette must stop being Alette for the time being. Why? Will the dredge hunt her? Also, who will lead the caravan if Alette goes into hiding? And what does Alette change into? She pulls her hood up and she goes back to being rank 1.

- What happened to Arberrang and the Menders while our own adventure was taking place?

- What is the relationship between Eyvind and Juno? Could mentor and apprentice be lovers? Do the menders know/aprove? It seems they try to keep this a secret.

- How are Varl born? It's mentioned that only the gods can create new Varl and now that the gods are dead, the race will disappear. The process in which new Varl are created is never mentioned and it seems very complex. Also, why are there only male Varl, making them unable to reproduce if even the Dredge can? In their race profile it states that "despite their warlike culture, they too cultivate families and are not without emotions", so are these families composed of mother and children or is it just kendr or brother-in-arms? Is that why they lack concern for women and children of other species? More information about the Varl society and familiar structure would be much welcome.
- More importantly, can their race be saved? Jorundr clearly thinks not. If their god is directly involved in the birth of new Varl, can he be revived? Can they learn to create new Varl without him - presuming anyone even survives the oncoming pair of apocalypses?

- Where did the body go during the funeral at the end scene? What do the two trees represent and why is there a moon and it's night? Is it the otherworld or maybe the realm of the gods?

- When Juno is speaking to the serpent, you can see her standing at the edge of the tower, but ther is another body of Juno laying where you first find it with Hakon. Is that a bug or is it intentional? Is Juno immortal too?

- What are the Horseborn? Will we see/battle/ally with the Horseborn?

- Will we get to know more about the water/sea spirits of the brackish sea?

- The Spindle and Skelmotskrolr's descriptions mention disappearing/hidden lands to the east, will this become a plot point? Run away from the main continent?

- Where do the Dredge go after loosing the battle outside Boersgård?

- Did Snorri (One of the 3 oldest Varl) die in the fall of Grofheim? Kurmr mentions that if he dies, Ubin will be the oldest, but Snorri's death is never mentioned.

- Considering Aletter survived, will Egil and her get closer now? Will Egil declare his crush?

- Wil we see them end of the argument between Mogun and Hogun?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uff, that is a long list. If you have anything to add, please do =)
Really hope the devs are seing this. Would love to get feedback from them.

Cheers.

Ulfrith
01-20-2014, 10:35 AM
awesome questions that i also have,i hope every choice nad question is tied and answered in chapter 2

lanegilliam
01-20-2014, 11:13 AM
Great thread!

Of particular concern to me personally is - how much will our choices transfer over into chapter two? For instance, I have the dredge child in my caravan, but not the frost child.

And in addition to all of those very fine questions, I really want to know more about the Varl.

How does their culture work? Family structure? Reproduction?

They appear to have only a single gender, and their race profile states "despite their warlike culture, they too cultivate families and are not without emotions" so there is definitely some kind of family dynamic. We've only heard about 'kendr' in the context of heirs to the throne - is it only to do with rulership, or a broader method of declaring an individual Varl as a family member? Somewhat similar to marriage, I assume, as Vognir and Hakon seemed very close and were kendr but only met in the second war, which implies that they were family by choice rather than by birth.

And speaking of birth: at first I thought that maybe since they are presumed immortal that all Varl are 'original' Varl directly created by the gods, but that cannot be the case. Older Varl such as Ubin and Krumr are referenced as being about 400, while Hakon refers to himself as "almost 200". Up until a certain point in the past, new Varl were being born. Why did they stop? Did it coincide with the death of the gods? If so, how specifically were Varl born? Did it involve a religious ritual? And if it did, would it have been undertaken by an original Varl? A pair- maybe something to do with Kender? Or would a new Varl be born into the community as a whole?

Which leads to the BIG PLOT QUESTION- can their race be saved? Jorundr clearly thinks not. If their god is directly involved in the birth of new Varl, can he be revived? Can they learn to create new Varl without him - presuming anyone even survives the oncoming pair of apocalypses?

Nelson Rosenberg
01-20-2014, 11:26 AM
Those are some great questions about the Varl lanegilliam. As far as I understand, the Varl were created by the gods and the gods created new Varl constantly, which is why there are older Varl and new Varl. Probably the first ones were killed in the wars and new ones were created to replace them. I think only Kurmr mentions fighting in the first war. This leads to the conclusion that there are not female Varl, which is supported by their usual lack of concern for woman and children.
BUT, I hear a user mentioning in Stem forums that you can see a child Varl in one of the bridge battles (I did not notice it) and this little bit of race profile you mentioned would lead to the conclusion that if they have families, there must be Varl women and children (I wasn't aware of this race profile). This is very strange indeed, let's add to the questions.

As for the kendr dinamyc I think it has to do with who takes over if you fall and as such it can be used in a number of contexts. The kendr of the king will be the next king, but the kendr of a general could be the one who leads his armies in case the general falls. I think it also has some hint of brother-in-arms kind of thing.

On the brith topic, yes, the Varl are not immortal but can become very old. They were create by the gods and are probably not born, but come to life as adults since not one of them mentions any childhood. Since the gods are dead new Varl are not being created to replace the dead ones. The precise manner in wich a Varl is create is still unknown, but we can assume it can only be done by the gods (until now).

Bastilean
01-20-2014, 11:53 AM
Good questions.

Slimsy Platypus
01-20-2014, 12:37 PM
On a more simple note: what are those blue "grenades" the Dredge slingers throw made from? Is that magic? Alchemy? :)

Nelson Rosenberg
01-20-2014, 12:39 PM
Good one Slimsy, since the Slingers are a new type of Dredge, they are probably not magic, since the mender-type dredge is already known to Iver. I would say they are probably alchemical in nature =)

illathid
01-20-2014, 02:19 PM
- Why did the sun stop? And how is it winter? It should be very hot and tidal locked, with oceans causing havoc. (Just a pet peeve)


While it is an interesting question as to why the sun stopped, I think the rest of your comment is assuming some things. Considering the mythic/fantasy nature of this world, it could be that sun was actually a large fire carried by a flying cart across the sky. So the seasons and tides could have nothing to do with the sun at all.

Surtr
01-20-2014, 04:25 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about scientific explanations for such things. It's a fantasy world, after all. Who knows what the sun really is in the Banner Saga universe! Maybe it's not a gigantic sphere of hot plasma held together by gravity. :)

One thing that left me wondering is the end scene and the burning ship funeral. Where did the ship go? Some sort of paradise?

I'd really love to know more about TBS lore!

Nelson Rosenberg
01-20-2014, 05:40 PM
While it is an interesting question as to why the sun stopped, I think the rest of your comment is assuming some things. Considering the mythic/fantasy nature of this world, it could be that sun was actually a large fire carried by a flying cart across the sky. So the seasons and tides could have nothing to do with the sun at all.

That's why I said it was my pet peeve. Regardless, I'll add a more fantastical explanation.

Also going to add a question about the end scene!

angelcatano
01-20-2014, 10:34 PM
- Why did the sun stop? Where the gods responsible for moving the sun or the same thing that killed them also stopped the star?

Seems the sun was still going for some time, yet again, at some point i remember there was a clue about the gods not being dead, but they just stopped communicating with the world (btw, does this world have it's own name?)



- Who was Unnar? He had god-like powers.

- What happens to the dredge child?

- What happens to the frost child? Why did she spoke in a strange language? Couldn't the menders understand her?

Maybe Juno would, Eyvinnd was an apprentice after all, he even says that he can't understand the writing in a god(es) stone at some point (while mentiong that Valke can understand, albeit he mentions that each Valke reads a different thing, which can be either that the words are "multisignificant" to call them somthing, or everyone that tries to read it just makes up stuff as they go :P)




- What is the serpent? Who sent it? It mentions it is just the hammer to the blacksmith.
- Is the giant serpent the sun god? (I believe one of the godstone stories said that some believe the Sun god is a giant serpent, and we also see the sun stopping as this serpent appears). (WoodMan)

I think the serpent, in his metaphor, called Juno the Hammer, and he was the blacksmith, Think he meant to say something like "you are insignificant, stop asking questions"



- What is the Darkness? What is causing it? If the serpent is meant to be the end of the world and it is incomplete (Why? Was it Juno?) who is causing the Darkness?

- Why are the Dredge invading? What are their motives? Are they just running away from the Darkness?

Seems to be the case, that they are just running (they say this when you find the Mother Dredge with the baby dredge



- In fact,WHAT ARE the dredge? Are they using armor or is that their actual bodies? Who created them (Gods?), for what purpose (to unite men and Varl?), and why can they reproduce? Do they have a complex society? Are they really mindless and savage like the Varl think? Or is Iver the only one that knows more and the truth about the Dredge?
- Since Slingers seen to be a new type of Dredge tht was previously unknown, what are those blue "grenades" they throw made from? Is that magic? Alchemy? (Slimsy Platypus)

I think they are some sort of stone golem/giant, but seem to have extra armour (I do like the feature that they "splinter" when hit hard for armour and damage nearby dredge
And seems they haven't seen them before because they might all be female (The one you find dead with the baby is mentioned as a slinger), so adding to them running from the darkness, they brought their females and babies (which adds a kinda freaky point, if you see the slingers, a lot of them have some sort of bundle on their backs, maybe Dredge infants?!)



- Why did Bellower chase the caravan? Was he after Eyvind or Iver? Was he the husband of Raze?

- Are the gods really dead? How did they die? Signs of the gods being alive can be seen in Unnar; in the pin with the dredge child; the winds that stop in one of the godstones and maybe in the worshipping dredge in Stravh's godstone.
When you go to the final godstone with Juno, they mention that that particular god was of fortune and trade, and that he traded with the gods the weapons they used to kill each other, hope to know more about the dead of the gods too, but this was the only clue I saw/found during gameplay... And guess Unnar might be a god, or another godly creation (Think wizards in Tolkien's universe)



- Did Ludin killed Vognir? Why?

- What happened to Ubin's gold? You can try to recover it and send it to Strand. (Is this important? Gunnulf would give his life for it.) And who are they collecting taxes for? It is not for the king Jorundr

Gunnulf seems a bit of a simpleton, so maybe he was just focused on his mission (to protect the treasures).... And yes, the treassure and taxes where for King Jorundr, Ubin mentions it



- What happened to Sigbjorn? He left my party when entering Boesgard. (Is this a bug?). Also, I told the Ravens about him and the mead, will he be punished?


Think there are conditions to have him stay, but haven't verified it myself



- What happens to the Varl at Einartoft? What happens if I destroy the bridge right away? And if Iver destroys the bridge only after 3 days, does the delay change anything? What about if you try but surrender and don't destroy the bridge at all? Fasolt lives? (This is thought to be a bug. Should he die no matter what you do?) What is the Varl fate if I just leave? The outcome of the 4 scenarios is never mentioned.
- If Einartoft falls, who will become the new Varl king: Krumr, Iver, Hakon? (WoodMan) [QUOTE]
That question can be solved with another play through :P or you can just reload from that point of the story :D think you are just kicked out of Einartoft, but afaik, if you destroy the bridge (or attempt to destroy it), King Jorund mentions that the alliance of Man and Varl is over, so this would be an interesting point to develop in Chapters 2 and 3. I've kept fasolt in one of my playthroughs, I battled on the bridge the first two days, and on the third, I tried to destroy the bridge (But surrendered to the varl when confronted)... the bridge wasn't destroyed, Jorund gets angry and kicks us out, but Udin still comes and joins (and brings varls, including Fasolt). And seems the Dredge start following your party (as you asked before, this is not fully explained, perhaps Iver's fault for killing Raze and the baby Dredge, which I assume they where Bellower's family)

[QUOTE=Nelson Rosenberg;26845]
- What happened with Hakon's caravan after they left Einartoft? They where heading for Arberrang, how did they ended up in Boesgard? How did they find Juno?

- Hakon also mentions the damage the serpent did. What exactly was that damage?

Håkon mentions that there was a split on the earth one mile wide, that's why they took the detour. They randomly (or by fate?) find Juno half frozen on their way to Boersgård (And Juno got lost, blocked or simply couldn't get safely to Sigrholm).
Also as an extra, it's from these splits that some of the Dredge are "pouring out", as mentioned by Eyvinnd (I Think) that the menders sent the Sundr to the depths of the earth



- If Bellower was responsible for about every dredge incursion since the fall of Grofheim, where are the other Sundr? How many are there?

- Why was Rook choosen to kill Bellower? According to Juno he was the only one who had a reason and would always "come back" (from the dead?) for his daughter.

- Assuming you let Rook take the final shoot agains Bellower (as Juno intended when he was choosen), Iver mentions that Alette must stop being Alette for the time being. Why? Will the dredge hunt her? Also, who will lead the caravan if Alette goes into hiding? And what does Alette change into? She pulls her hood up and she goes back to being rank 1.


Yes! also her description changes (unfortunately, it changes to a bugged code, just like Iver after he loses his arm)



- What happened to Arberrang and the Menders while our own adventure was taking place? (WoodMan)

- What is the relationship between Eyvind and Juno? Could mentor and apprentice be lovers? Do the menders know/aprove? It seems they try to keep this a secret.

- How are Varl born? It's mentioned that only the gods can create new Varl and now that the gods are dead, the race will disappear. The process in which new Varl are created is never mentioned and it seems very complex. Also, why are there only male Varl, making them unable to reproduce if even the Dredge can? In their race profile it states that "despite their warlike culture, they too cultivate families and are not without emotions", so are these families composed of mother and children or is it just kendr or brother-in-arms? Is that why they lack concern for women and children of other species? More information about the Varl society and familiar structure would be much welcome. (lanegilliam)
- More importantly, can their race be saved? Jorundr clearly thinks not. If their god is directly involved in the birth of new Varl, can he be revived? Can they learn to create new Varl without him - presuming anyone even survives the oncoming pair of apocalypses? (lanegilliam)


Think this was answered somewhere else, but Ill type it anyway: I don't think all varl where created at the same time, so the god taht created them kept making more. And as mentioned in another answer in this lengthy post: maybe the gods just stopped talking with the people of earth



- Where did the body go during the funeral at the end scene? What do the two trees represent and why is there a moon and it's night? Is it the otherworld or maybe the realm of the gods? (Surtr)

Well, If you see the wikipedia article on Valkyrie (which is reminded by Valke) you can see some of the afterwordly stuff taht might be inspiration/clue for this :)



And the last but one of my favourites:

- Did Snorri (One of the 3 oldest Varl) die in the fall of Grofheim? Kurmr mentions that if he dies, Ubin will be the oldest, but Snorri's death is never mentioned.

Uff, that is a long list. If you have anything to add, please do =)
Really hope the devs are seing this. Would love to get feedback from them.

Cheers.

And my own questions: Will we see/battle/ally with the Horseborn?
Maybe get to know more about the water/sea spirits of the brackish sea?
The Spindle and Skelmotskrolr's descriptions mention disappearing/hidden lands to the east, will this become a plot point? run away from the main continent?
Where do the Dredge go after loosing the battle outside Boersgård?

I'm sure most of my questions have been asked already, but will have a new playthrough this week and maybe will come out with more questions :D

netnazgul
01-21-2014, 12:52 AM
I'll also drop my 5c to the fire:

Which arm did Iver lost after battle with Bellover?

If you notice, the thing with 2d graphics and how it's drawn into the game shows it either left or right depending on where and when the image shows (it could be even both in a single combat cause animation are mirrored)

Aleonymous
01-21-2014, 03:17 AM
My question: The suffix "-singer" in the Stonesingers (a.k.a. Dredge-menders) comes from the verb (a) "sing", as in carrying a tune/song or (b) "singe", as in scorch with fire?

lanegilliam
01-21-2014, 03:24 AM
My question: The suffix "-singer" in the Stonesingers (a.k.a. Dredge-menders) comes from the verb (a) "sing", as in carrying a tune/song or (b) "singe", as in scorch with fire?

I would think it's the first - the musical one. One of the Varl... I think it was Iver? Said something like "One thing you need to know about the Dredge is that they start using their weapons like a tuning fork, you need to hit them hard". That, and the tuning-fork shape they tend to make with their weapons seems to suggest that their concept of magic - and maybe culture overall - is music-centric. Which is interesting.

asafe
01-21-2014, 06:27 AM
Really good questions!
I'll address the ones I "know" from playing the game.

1. "Frost child" - There's a few events with her, nothing that concludes her story, I for one didn't even remember finding her but she did appear a few times during my journey as an event I had to deal with. At one point and this seems to point to her origin, she stops and is visibly shaking and terrified, she draws a tent on the ground and she repeats some word I think she used in a previous event, she is also pointing to the forest.
I chose to take some warriors and go in that directions and I happened to slaughter a whole camp of dredge.
Can't remember what the reward was and there was no combat scene, just text description.

P.S - Very curious about the Dredge Child too.

2. "The Serpent" - He doesn't claim to be a good but he did say he came to eat the "tapestry" of the world but "The Darkness" came instead and now he can't eat it the way he wanted. (or something like that :-) )
There's a lot of unexplained things regarding him, Probably need to go back and read the encounter with him.

3. "Dredge invasion" - They are not invading! they are running away! apparently from either "The Darkness" or "The serpent" or both.

P.s - I agree completely with your questions about the Vral and Dredge origins, also weird the Dredge obviously can reproduce and have females but the Vral can't and there are no female Vrals.

4. "Bellower" - I really didn't get "Bellower" or the whole "Sundr" thing, who are they? what is their place in Dredge society? It is mentioned "Bellower" can't be killed... why? are all "Sundr" like that?
How does it make sense considering they can reproduce? (Note Ivar killed a sundr that were holding her dead child)

5. "Gods" - some hints where made to them being alive just not interfering or communicating with the world.
Although... how does the world look with the gods actually "communicating" with it?

6. "Ubin's Gold" - Depends on your actions, it's either left there, you return it (you lose some Vrals if you decide to leave them to collect the gold and return it to 'some city, can't remember), there's also the option of amounts of it being taken by Lundin and his men and some of your Vral, you can slap him and get it back. (didn't have any other consequence as far as I know)

7. "Sigbjorn" - I was annoyed he just left my party, especially after I gave him a powerful trinket, thinking he is with me to stay.
I really didn't like the fact you can lose items so easily when a character leaves or dies according to the story, there's also usually no warning when that happens and very little explanations.
I tried playing that part a few times, including telling the ravens about him, I infer from the text that he is killed by the raven leader if you tell them about him. (but I got a lot of supplies for it! :-) )

8. "The Serpent's damage" - we see the serpent is tearing the earth when he moves, destroying mountains and shifting land, I also remember some mention of a place that now has a deep chasm there because the serpent went through there, I think Hakon is the one who mentions it.

9. "Rook killing Bellower" - It can also be Alette depending on your choices, what Juno said about Rook is related to taking him with her to the God Stone in order to get the shards, she said he looks "quick" and "able" and she knows that even if things go wrong and she dies he will do anything in order to see his daughter again and get back to her. Basically saying, if she is killed at the god stone he wouldn't die fighting or runaway, he would take the shards back to Boesgard because Alette is there.

Very good questions, hope I helped shed some light.
Still a lot more unexplained and I would love to know too! :-)

Nelson Rosenberg
01-21-2014, 06:51 AM
Seems the sun was still going for some time, yet again, at some point i remember there was a clue about the gods not being dead, but they just stopped communicating with the world (btw, does this world have it's own name?)


There are lots of clues about the gods not being dead, but to the people in the world, they are so, what made they think that is the real question? And I don't think it has a name, but it sure should!



I think the serpent, in his metaphor, called Juno the Hammer, and he was the blacksmith, Think he meant to say something like "you are insignificant, stop asking questions"
If I remember, the words of the serpent where "Do you ask the hammer what the blacksmith is doing?" Which implies that the serpent is the hammer. It would be kinda weird if the serpent said that Juno was the hammer, as she is trying to stop the serpent (hopefully!)



I think they are some sort of stone golem/giant, but seem to have extra armour (I do like the feature that they "splinter" when hit hard for armour and damage nearby dredge
And seems they haven't seen them before because they might all be female (The one you find dead with the baby is mentioned as a slinger), so adding to them running from the darkness, they brought their females and babies (which adds a kinda freaky point, if you see the slingers, a lot of them have some sort of bundle on their backs, maybe Dredge infants?!)

That is very good! It would explain why the slingers where never seen before and would add a rather dramatic touch to the story. I'll add this to the questions. =)



When you go to the final godstone with Juno, they mention that that particular god was of fortune and trade, and that he traded with the gods the weapons they used to kill each other, hope to know more about the dead of the gods too, but this was the only clue I saw/found during gameplay... And guess Unnar might be a god, or another godly creation (Think wizards in Tolkien's universe)

Yes, it is very likely that Stravh created the weapons that the god killed themselves with, but the questions remains why he created and why the gods used it. Is Stravh some Loki-type god and if so why didn't he survived the death of the other gods?



Gunnulf seems a bit of a simpleton, so maybe he was just focused on his mission (to protect the treasures).... And yes, the treassure and taxes where for King Jorundr, Ubin mentions it

Maybe I missed this.




That question can be solved with another play through :P or you can just reload from that point of the story :D think you are just kicked out of Einartoft, but afaik, if you destroy the bridge (or attempt to destroy it), King Jorund mentions that the alliance of Man and Varl is over, so this would be an interesting point to develop in Chapters 2 and 3. I've kept fasolt in one of my playthroughs, I battled on the bridge the first two days, and on the third, I tried to destroy the bridge (But surrendered to the varl when confronted)... the bridge wasn't destroyed, Jorund gets angry and kicks us out, but Udin still comes and joins (and brings varls, including Fasolt). And seems the Dredge start following your party (as you asked before, this is not fully explained, perhaps Iver's fault for killing Raze and the baby Dredge, which I assume they where Bellower's family)

I did play all the scenarios (and the one Fasolt lives is still thought to be a bug as he dissapears when Hakon return) but I was asking about the future outcome or what is happening while the caravan is in Boesgard =)



Håkon mentions that there was a split on the earth one mile wide, that's why they took the detour. They randomly (or by fate?) find Juno half frozen on their way to Boersgård (And Juno got lost, blocked or simply couldn't get safely to Sigrholm).
Also as an extra, it's from these splits that some of the Dredge are "pouring out", as mentioned by Eyvinnd (I Think) that the menders sent the Sundr to the depths of the earth


Yes I remember, but I was hopping for a little more information or motive for the serpent to do that. It hardly seems like destroying the world a couple of mountains far away =P It still is kinda strange to me that Hakon's caravan took such a detour and why they ended at Boesgard. Maybe Juno had a hand in this. And just now something strange ocurred to me. When Juno is speaking to the serpent, you can see her standing at the edge of the tower, but ther is another body of Juno laying where you first find it with Hakon. Is that a bug or is it intentional? Is Juno immortal too?




And my own questions: Will we see/battle/ally with the Horseborn?
Maybe get to know more about the water/sea spirits of the brackish sea?
The Spindle and Skelmotskrolr's descriptions mention disappearing/hidden lands to the east, will this become a plot point? run away from the main continent?
Where do the Dredge go after loosing the battle outside Boersgård?

I'm sure most of my questions have been asked already, but will have a new playthrough this week and maybe will come out with more questions :D

I shall add your questions. I think I remember something about the Horseborn, but it slipped my mind at the time. Are they another race? Can you elaborate on that? Where are they mentioned?

Nelson Rosenberg
01-21-2014, 06:59 AM
I'll also drop my 5c to the fire:

Which arm did Iver lost after battle with Bellover?

If you notice, the thing with 2d graphics and how it's drawn into the game shows it either left or right depending on where and when the image shows (it could be even both in a single combat cause animation are mirrored)

This is probably just the effect of 2d graphics. The same thing occurs in Street Fighter 3d Strike with Oro. =)

Nelson Rosenberg
01-21-2014, 07:08 AM
Really good questions!
I'll address the ones I "know" from playing the game.

1. "Frost child" - There's a few events with her, nothing that concludes her story, I for one didn't even remember finding her but she did appear a few times during my journey as an event I had to deal with. At one point and this seems to point to her origin, she stops and is visibly shaking and terrified, she draws a tent on the ground and she repeats some word I think she used in a previous event, she is also pointing to the forest.
I chose to take some warriors and go in that directions and I happened to slaughter a whole camp of dredge.
Can't remember what the reward was and there was no combat scene, just text description.

P.S - Very curious about the Dredge Child too.



Yes, the frost child is a very big mistery for me. How can she detect the dredge like that?



2. "The Serpent" - He doesn't claim to be a good but he did say he came to eat the "tapestry" of the world but "The Darkness" came instead and now he can't eat it the way he wanted. (or something like that :-) )
There's a lot of unexplained things regarding him, Probably need to go back and read the encounter with him.

I liked this explanation of the serpent! Will add it to the questions.



3. "Dredge invasion" - They are not invading! they are running away! apparently from either "The Darkness" or "The serpent" or both.

P.s - I agree completely with your questions about the Vral and Dredge origins, also weird the Dredge obviously can reproduce and have females but the Vral can't and there are no female Vrals.

We can infer the dredge are not invading but running away, but they are doing a lot of fighting for someone just runnin with maybe wife and children =) Also, why do they worship Stravh?



4. "Bellower" - I really didn't get "Bellower" or the whole "Sundr" thing, who are they? what is their place in Dredge society? It is mentioned "Bellower" can't be killed... why? are all "Sundr" like that?
How does it make sense considering they can reproduce? (Note Ivar killed a sundr that were holding her dead child)


The Sundr are descripded as the lords of the dredge. Maybe generals or just very powerfull and unique dredge. Not all of them are immortal, just Bellower it seems and no explanation why. Iver did kill one of them.




5. "Gods" - some hints where made to them being alive just not interfering or communicating with the world.
Although... how does the world look with the gods actually "communicating" with it?


Very good question!




9. "Rook killing Bellower" - It can also be Alette depending on your choices, what Juno said about Rook is related to taking him with her to the God Stone in order to get the shards, she said he looks "quick" and "able" and she knows that even if things go wrong and she dies he will do anything in order to see his daughter again and get back to her. Basically saying, if she is killed at the god stone he wouldn't die fighting or runaway, he would take the shards back to Boesgard because Alette is there.

That's what I thought too, but is it all? Many of the party members would certainly get the job done even if Juno fell. And Juno is prone to speaking in riddles. Can we really take what she says literally is the questions =)

angelcatano
01-21-2014, 08:15 AM
I think the most important question is: If all slingers are female... Why do they all seem to sport a Moustache that would ridicule all men and varl? :P

But in seriousness : Damn! I didn't get that second event with Frost Child! I got the one where she mentions "Edj", which I presumed (and now assumed) she meant Dredg

Yes, I also think Fasolt living might be a bug, he did disappear in Boersgård, but It was just after I suffered the Dredge breaking into the city (had 0 soldiers and varl left) so wasn't sure what happened really

And there's one mention of the Hunter God (think the first one after Skoldr (Rook's village)) that he used to hang out in the form of a wolf and sometimes as a man, guess this was one way for the gods to interact?

And the Sundr, they are mentioned as the equivalent of Dredg Menders, so maybe they have a similar role? they seem to give Str to their allies in battle (whereas mender only replenishes armour). Maybe they too weave their own banners and keep a record of their history?

And maybe Dredge are as aggressive just out of rite? maybe their god told them to do it and, even in an allegedly godless world, they still want to follow through? Maybe Stravh is still alive and he's the one that brought the darkness? D:

There's a confusing piece of information,because in one part I think I read about the Dredge being made so human and varl would stop fighting, but in another part I read that they where made by a god that was jealous of the other god's creations... Maybe this is all a plot from Stravh to take over the world?

And the horseborn are mentioned a few times in conversations, and in the map you can read about them (in most of the southern features of the map), they seem to be Centaurs (Think there's an item... boots made out of horseborn feet!)

Nelson Rosenberg
01-21-2014, 08:40 AM
I think the most important question is: If all slingers are female... Why do they all seem to sport a Moustache that would ridicule all men and varl? :P

But in seriousness : Damn! I didn't get that second event with Frost Child! I got the one where she mentions "Edj", which I presumed (and now assumed) she meant Dredg

Yes, I also think Fasolt living might be a bug, he did disappear in Boersgård, but It was just after I suffered the Dredge breaking into the city (had 0 soldiers and varl left) so wasn't sure what happened really

And there's one mention of the Hunter God (think the first one after Skoldr (Rook's village)) that he used to hang out in the form of a wolf and sometimes as a man, guess this was one way for the gods to interact?

And the Sundr, they are mentioned as the equivalent of Dredg Menders, so maybe they have a similar role? they seem to give Str to their allies in battle (whereas mender only replenishes armour). Maybe they too weave their own banners and keep a record of their history?

And maybe Dredge are as aggressive just out of rite? maybe their god told them to do it and, even in an allegedly godless world, they still want to follow through? Maybe Stravh is still alive and he's the one that brought the darkness? D:

There's a confusing piece of information,because in one part I think I read about the Dredge being made so human and varl would stop fighting, but in another part I read that they where made by a god that was jealous of the other god's creations... Maybe this is all a plot from Stravh to take over the world?

And the horseborn are mentioned a few times in conversations, and in the map you can read about them (in most of the southern features of the map), they seem to be Centaurs (Think there's an item... boots made out of horseborn feet!)

I also didn't get the one where she warns about the Dredge, only the "Edj" one (Edj sounds like how a child would say Dredge if he/she can't quite pronunce difficult words yet =P).

I'm not sure the Sundr are menders. Iver mentions the Stonesingers are menders for the Dredge, but I can't recall the same being said about Sundr, only that they are lords.

I do like the theories about Dredge and Stravh, it would bring the Saga to epic proportions!

I'm also kind of sad and ashamed that I missed an entire race =P I remember they being mentioned but I guess it just didn't really stick to my mind. Now i'm even more curious! Thinking about it, one of the godstones said that after the humans where created a god wanted to try creating a race so he mixed parts of animals and humans. I assumed this was the Varl but it could be more than one race.

netnazgul
01-21-2014, 10:49 AM
This is probably just the effect of 2d graphics. The same thing occurs in Street Fighter 3d Strike with Oro. =)
Yeah, I know, but that doesn't answer the question :D

Nelson Rosenberg
01-21-2014, 11:37 AM
Yeah, I know, but that doesn't answer the question :D

Hahaha yeah, you're right. Well, it SHOULD be the left arm, as it was the shield arm. You can see it clearly when he falls after the attack from Bellower. If at any point he appeared missing the right arm that would probably be a bug and it wouldn't be a bad idea to warn the devs =) (I personaly didn't notice)

netnazgul
01-21-2014, 12:04 PM
Hahaha yeah, you're right. Well, it SHOULD be the left arm, as it was the shield arm. You can see it clearly when he falls after the attack from Bellower. If at any point he appeared missing the right arm that would probably be a bug and it wouldn't be a bad idea to warn the devs =) (I personaly didn't notice)
When in the battle - his top-left/bottom-left direction animations are mirrored to top-right/bottom-right (as is with any other character). The most noticeable feature about this is how Warhawk spins his Tempest - you can see him doing it either clockwise or counter-clockwise depending on where he is directed (but target selection for Tempest is always clockwise).

Also some dialogue portraits are mirrored to show a character facing different directions

Nelson Rosenberg
01-21-2014, 12:14 PM
When in the battle - his top-left/bottom-left direction animations are mirrored to top-right/bottom-right (as is with any other character). The most noticeable feature about this is how Warhawk spins his Tempest - you can see him doing it either clockwise or counter-clockwise depending on where he is directed (but target selection for Tempest is always clockwise).

Also some dialogue portraits are mirrored to show a character facing different directions

Exactly, just a problem with how 2D games reuse mirrored sprites =)

Slimsy Platypus
01-21-2014, 01:12 PM
Regarding the horseborne: there's some concept art and info on them here: http://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?1094-Mini-Compilation-of-Known-Unit-Info

The guys at Stoic have said we can expect to encounter them in chapter 2!

Nelson Rosenberg
01-21-2014, 05:45 PM
Great find! I didn't know about this concept art!

angelcatano
01-22-2014, 03:53 AM
Ah, nice to see some conept art for the Horseborn :) looks nice, and yes! completely forgot about the Berzerker in Boersgård, Wonder if chapter 2 will start at the same time the boats are ready, and if you'll follow another band's movement (we used to have two groups in Chapter 1, but they are together by the end).

Kezza921
01-22-2014, 07:37 AM
I do have one question about the plot...what on earth is with the dream that Hakon and Mogr have? you know the one with the birds?

I am hoping questions will be answered in a sequel...

angelcatano
01-22-2014, 07:59 AM
I have another question!! What in fæn happens before Ridgehorn? There's a weird event where you stop after the caravan demands a stop (didn't matter I just stopped for 5 days to recover :P) ...
(yes, i'm writing this as the event just happened to me on my current run)
Mogr leans by a tree, fiddling with a crust of bread... he says "we shold follow those birds (ravens on top of ridgehorn"... then, no mater what you chose, the text reads about him running towards the birds, tumbling over the cliff. He starts gliding through the air flapping his arms. he swoops towards ridgehorn and bursts into flames, plummets towards (Ridgehorn) tower, which then crumbles...

Fade out and you are being awoken in a set up camp, and then Mogr ask you if you saw what happened..." you both agree to keep it to yourselves"

this is a very weird event, is it foreshadowing? did the devs forgot to add something else? D:

Nelson Rosenberg
01-22-2014, 08:08 AM
I have another question!! What in fæn happens before Ridgehorn? There's a weird event where you stop after the caravan demands a stop (didn't matter I just stopped for 5 days to recover :P) ...
(yes, i'm writing this as the event just happened to me on my current run)
Mogr leans by a tree, fiddling with a crust of bread... he says "we shold follow those birds (ravens on top of ridgehorn"... then, no mater what you chose, the text reads about him running towards the birds, tumbling over the cliff. He starts gliding through the air flapping his arms. he swoops towards ridgehorn and bursts into flames, plummets towards (Ridgehorn) tower, which then crumbles...

Fade out and you are being awoken in a set up camp, and then Mogr ask you if you saw what happened..." you both agree to keep it to yourselves"

this is a very weird event, is it foreshadowing? did the devs forgot to add something else? D:

Indeed! I completly forgot about this. It was so weird. I wasn't expecting any kind of illusions in the game up until that point and magic does not seem to be so common in the bannerworld. Will add!

Noble
01-22-2014, 12:07 PM
I have another question!! What in fæn happens before Ridgehorn? There's a weird event where you stop after the caravan demands a stop (didn't matter I just stopped for 5 days to recover :P) ...
(yes, i'm writing this as the event just happened to me on my current run)
Mogr leans by a tree, fiddling with a crust of bread... he says "we shold follow those birds (ravens on top of ridgehorn"... then, no mater what you chose, the text reads about him running towards the birds, tumbling over the cliff. He starts gliding through the air flapping his arms. he swoops towards ridgehorn and bursts into flames, plummets towards (Ridgehorn) tower, which then crumbles...

Fade out and you are being awoken in a set up camp, and then Mogr ask you if you saw what happened..." you both agree to keep it to yourselves"

this is a very weird event, is it foreshadowing? did the devs forgot to add something else? D:

When this happened I was still thinking of what Yrsa said, "Be careful... I'm a witch." I kind of figured she was toying with Hakon, but after that I started to think she and Ludin's varl bodyguard (the name escapes me) were planning something sinister. When you're in the forest surrounded by dread, it's possible for her to go missing -- but I don't think she died. I don't trust them, and it's definitely one of the things I'm hoping to see resolved in Book 2.

Lochlan
01-22-2014, 05:59 PM
I have another question!! What in fæn happens before Ridgehorn? There's a weird event where you stop after the caravan demands a stop (didn't matter I just stopped for 5 days to recover :P) ...
(yes, i'm writing this as the event just happened to me on my current run)
Mogr leans by a tree, fiddling with a crust of bread... he says "we shold follow those birds (ravens on top of ridgehorn"... then, no mater what you chose, the text reads about him running towards the birds, tumbling over the cliff. He starts gliding through the air flapping his arms. he swoops towards ridgehorn and bursts into flames, plummets towards (Ridgehorn) tower, which then crumbles...

Fade out and you are being awoken in a set up camp, and then Mogr ask you if you saw what happened..." you both agree to keep it to yourselves"

this is a very weird event, is it foreshadowing? did the devs forgot to add something else? D:


Indeed! I completly forgot about this. It was so weird. I wasn't expecting any kind of illusions in the game up until that point and magic does not seem to be so common in the bannerworld. Will add!

Try telling Fasolt to forget about Ridgehorn after that dream. You'll see more stuff like that.

angelcatano
01-22-2014, 10:03 PM
Try telling Fasolt to forget about Ridgehorn after that dream. You'll see more stuff like that.

Yes, that is also very interesting "Let's go to Ridgeheim..." "Ridge....horn"... and him feeling like in a dream at that point. Interesting, mayhaps it was the Mender's trying to get some help?

also, probably a bit Off Topik: Never quite noticed that Dredge Grunts Carry what appears to be frying pans on their backpacks :P

EmblaWinterblade
01-23-2014, 09:39 AM
To me it became quite obvious what happend to the sun the moment Alette's body floated into the darkness. The sun has not stopped, the planet has! Or at least slowed down, that explains why the days seem to not end and why there is a creeping darkness.

Since the place is already cold even when in sunlight for long the side of the planet thats away from the sun must be to cold to sustain life and forces the dregde to flee south. This is most likly to be linked with "the death of the gods" i think, but since the darkness is spreding it means that the planet has not completly stoped either, which also hints at that some gods might still be alive or sleeping somewhere.

When collecting the silver ore it is said that the gods killed themselves, maybe they did it to stop the planet/sun and prevent the worm to eat it all?

Nelson Rosenberg
01-23-2014, 09:49 AM
Try telling Fasolt to forget about Ridgehorn after that dream. You'll see more stuff like that.

Can you elaborate on that Lochlan? I can't remember if you can refuse to go to Ridgehorn and what happens if you do? You get more dream-like sequences? Then that seems really to imply that Juno was messing with the minds of the Varl (even in death?) to get them to save Eyvind and her.

Thanks!

Nelson Rosenberg
01-23-2014, 09:50 AM
To me it became quite obvious what happend to the sun the moment Alette's body floated into the darkness. The sun has not stopped, the planet has! Or at least slowed down, that explains why the days seem to not end and why there is a creeping darkness.

Since the place is already cold even when in sunlight for long the side of the planet thats away from the sun must be to cold to sustain life and forces the dregde to flee south. This is most likly to be linked with "the death of the gods" i think, but since the darkness is spreding it means that the planet has not completly stoped either, which also hints at that some gods might still be alive or sleeping somewhere.

When collecting the silver ore it is said that the gods killed themselves, maybe they did it to stop the planet/sun and prevent the worm to eat it all?

That is a very good theory EmblaWinterblade. I was also very puzzled by the moon at the end but I have my doubts that place was the darkness that is approaching. It looked more outerwordly than that. =)

Yellow
01-23-2014, 10:35 AM
To me it became quite obvious what happend to the sun the moment Alette's body floated into the darkness. The sun has not stopped, the planet has! Or at least slowed down, that explains why the days seem to not end and why there is a creeping darkness.

Since the place is already cold even when in sunlight for long the side of the planet thats away from the sun must be to cold to sustain life and forces the dregde to flee south. This is most likly to be linked with "the death of the gods" i think, but since the darkness is spreding it means that the planet has not completly stoped either, which also hints at that some gods might still be alive or sleeping somewhere.

When collecting the silver ore it is said that the gods killed themselves, maybe they did it to stop the planet/sun and prevent the worm to eat it all?

This is a good theory, i give you that ;)

rofltehcat
01-23-2014, 11:24 AM
My take on the snake:
It is a mix of Nidhöggr and Apep. Nidhöggr eats the world because he gnaws at the roots of the world tree whereas the egyptian Apep snake swallows the sun every night.
Because the sun has stopped moving it has basically lost its meaning and can't fulfill its duties. It says it cannot destroy (eat?) the world because of the darkness. If the sun is constantly up on one side of the planet, of course the other side is in eternal darkness.
The sun god is also described as being sometimes seen as a giant serpent. So the serpent may be a vassal/avatar of the sun god and now that the gods are dead/silent/asleep and the sun has stopped it basically has an existential crisis ;P


One thing I wonder about: With the sun no longer moving, why is it still winter? Is it just because we are in the zone with a flat enough angle so the snow doesn't smelt? In that case the area near the equator would be scorched, meaning the heroes might run straight into other caravans fleeing from the drought/heat. Possibly the horseborn?
So they might still have to fight for their lives once the Dredge stop (assuming they stop in a "moderate climate zone"). They also will be just one caravan of many different ones, people fleeing not just from the north but also from the south and pressing into bearable climate zones (Arberrang?).

balnoisi
01-23-2014, 03:51 PM
I have another question!! What in fæn happens before Ridgehorn? There's a weird event where you stop after the caravan demands a stop (didn't matter I just stopped for 5 days to recover :P) ...
(yes, i'm writing this as the event just happened to me on my current run)
Mogr leans by a tree, fiddling with a crust of bread... he says "we shold follow those birds (ravens on top of ridgehorn"... then, no mater what you chose, the text reads about him running towards the birds, tumbling over the cliff. He starts gliding through the air flapping his arms. he swoops towards ridgehorn and bursts into flames, plummets towards (Ridgehorn) tower, which then crumbles...

Fade out and you are being awoken in a set up camp, and then Mogr ask you if you saw what happened..." you both agree to keep it to yourselves"

this is a very weird event, is it foreshadowing? did the devs forgot to add something else? D:

Gandalf and Eyvind find themselves in a very delicate situation in Ridgehorn. Gandalf searches for help and finds Hakon and his caravan. The Grey Wizard himself tells Rook in one of the late chapters of the story that one of his powers is influencing the mind of others, and so he did. He chose ravens for very pagan reasons, just look at his picture.

oh i meant Juno, don't know how that happened ... :rolleyes:

loveboof
01-23-2014, 06:45 PM
I have another question!! What in fæn happens before Ridgehorn? There's a weird event where you stop after the caravan demands a stop (didn't matter I just stopped for 5 days to recover :P) ...
(yes, i'm writing this as the event just happened to me on my current run)
Mogr leans by a tree, fiddling with a crust of bread... he says "we shold follow those birds (ravens on top of ridgehorn"... then, no mater what you chose, the text reads about him running towards the birds, tumbling over the cliff. He starts gliding through the air flapping his arms. he swoops towards ridgehorn and bursts into flames, plummets towards (Ridgehorn) tower, which then crumbles...

Fade out and you are being awoken in a set up camp, and then Mogr ask you if you saw what happened..." you both agree to keep it to yourselves"

this is a very weird event, is it foreshadowing? did the devs forgot to add something else? D:
I interpreted this as the Menders way of drawing your party towards them - Juno was a master of mind control, and Hakon is compelled to head towards them regardless of where he actually wants to go...

Isbjoern
01-23-2014, 07:41 PM
I'm so glad I stumpled upon this thread! I'm in agreement with so many of you: I can't wait to find out more about the Varl (among so many items of Banner Saga lore)... It's great to see people being as fascinated about this game and it's rich background as I am.

Thanks Slimsy Platypus for sharing the link for the Horseborn concept art. This was a great new insight!

Rensei
01-23-2014, 08:33 PM
During dialogue before Ridgehorn, You (playing as Hakon) can choose to go straight to the capitol only to discover Your tongue twisting and actually saying Ridgehorn.

Like others already pointed out it looks like menders (Juno?) were summoning help this way.

It happens again sometime before the final battle - Hakon's team recovers Juno for the second time and escorts her to Rook and others instead of following Varl king's orders.

lanegilliam
01-23-2014, 10:17 PM
9. "Rook killing Bellower" - It can also be Alette depending on your choices, what Juno said about Rook is related to taking him with her to the God Stone in order to get the shards, she said he looks "quick" and "able" and she knows that even if things go wrong and she dies he will do anything in order to see his daughter again and get back to her. Basically saying, if she is killed at the god stone he wouldn't die fighting or runaway, he would take the shards back to Boesgard because Alette is there.

That's what I thought too, but is it all? Many of the party members would certainly get the job done even if Juno fell. And Juno is prone to speaking in riddles. Can we really take what she says literally is the questions =)

I'm not even through catching up with this thread, but holy crap I just thought of something.

What if she didn't mean coming back from the godstone? What if she was implying coming back from the dead? I know it's a bit of a stretch but it does seem fittingly mythological.

...It almost makes me wish he had died in my game, instead of Alette.

Speaking of which, do we know if the specs of the last game played are going to hold over to the sequel? Because if so, my boyfriend and I are probably going to end up fighting over who gets to replay the first game trying to replicate our decisions before going into the second... my only real complaint was that we couldn't both have our own save states and had to play one after the other.

Bastilean
01-23-2014, 11:44 PM
I'm not even through catching up with this thread, but holy crap I just thought of something.

What if she didn't mean coming back from the godstone? What if she was implying coming back from the dead? I know it's a bit of a stretch but it does seem fittingly mythological.

...It almost makes me wish he had died in my game, instead of Alette.

Speaking of which, do we know if the specs of the last game played are going to hold over to the sequel? Because if so, my boyfriend and I are probably going to end up fighting over who gets to replay the first game trying to replicate our decisions before going into the second... my only real complaint was that we couldn't both have our own save states and had to play one after the other.

Really like this theory!

EmblaWinterblade
01-24-2014, 03:38 AM
That is a very good theory EmblaWinterblade. I was also very puzzled by the moon at the end but I have my doubts that place was the darkness that is approaching. It looked more outerwordly than that. =)

Thank you:)
The purple place make me puzzled to, but i have a hope that it is the afterlife, where the gods are, and that Ghost-Alette can help us from there by reviving gods or something.

Aleonymous
01-24-2014, 03:46 AM
What if she didn't mean coming back from the godstone? What if she was implying coming back from the dead? I know it's a bit of a stretch but it does seem fittingly mythological.

Yes, interesting theory! Juno seems to have no problems with coming back herself... So, perhaps it wasn't such a bitter ending after all? :)

Nelson Rosenberg
01-24-2014, 10:41 AM
I'm not even through catching up with this thread, but holy crap I just thought of something.

What if she didn't mean coming back from the godstone? What if she was implying coming back from the dead? I know it's a bit of a stretch but it does seem fittingly mythological.

...It almost makes me wish he had died in my game, instead of Alette.

Speaking of which, do we know if the specs of the last game played are going to hold over to the sequel? Because if so, my boyfriend and I are probably going to end up fighting over who gets to replay the first game trying to replicate our decisions before going into the second... my only real complaint was that we couldn't both have our own save states and had to play one after the other.

Great catch lanegilliam. If you take a closer look at the list you will see that I already gave it a nod ;)

"- Why was Rook choosen to kill Bellower? According to Juno he was the only one who had a reason and would always "come back" (from the dead?) for his daughter."

I would like to known the differences in the end if Alette dies. Does Rook goes into hiding too? Does he change like Alette?

Nelson Rosenberg
01-24-2014, 10:44 AM
On another note, did all of you guys let Alette take the shot? What terrible fathers! =P

Aleonymous
01-24-2014, 11:11 AM
did all of you guys let Alette take the shot? What terrible fathers!

Haha, I was wondering when this would be brought up, indeed. When she told me "Can I take the shot, daddy, please?" I wanted to tell her "Get outta here!" :D

Eurydice
01-24-2014, 11:47 AM
Frost girl? How did I miss the Frost girl?
Oh well, time for another playthrough!

I must say I really like the notion that the menders are subtly "guiding" all these protagonists together for some kind of last stand. I had missed some of these... tongue-twisting dialogue options, so I'm glad for threads like these!

My question is: if Bellower hates Iver so much for killing his Sundr lady-friend, then why does he not finish him off? He runs away after the appearance of the mender, does that mean that:
a) the mender is a real baddass and Bellower is scared of him (but then why do we need a silver arrow?)
or
b) there is another reason that Bellower spared Iver. Maybe the same reason he was chasing the caravan in the latter chapters. What is he really after?

Also, what did Egil do to the gods in a past life that made them curse him with the worst luck since Oedipus? THAT's what I want to know.

Rensei
01-24-2014, 12:31 PM
Bello run from the bridge after the appearance of the huge, world-ending, mountain-shattering, oddly well-mannered snake, not the mender.

Seeing as how dredge value their own stoneshapers, they must know and recognize the power of a mender, then again Bello is like a dredge honeybadger - he just doesn't care. Huge, world-ending, mountain-shattering, oddly well-mannered snakes are however a different case.

Eurydice
01-24-2014, 01:05 PM
Bello run from the bridge after the appearance of the huge, world-ending, mountain-shattering, oddly well-mannered snake, not the mender.



Ah, yes! You are correct, forgot about that tiny detail. Tiny, world-ending detail.

I laughed at the dredge honeybadger comment... :D
"Zapped by lightning from the sky? Bellower doesn't give a sh*t! Armour comes right back up, he doesn't care!"

Surtr
01-24-2014, 02:22 PM
That would be an interesting explanation for the ending. It would be cool to see the place with the moon and the trees and actually have an adventure there with Rook or Alette, depending on who dies in the Bellower fight. From a real-life mythological point of view, it would be perfectly acceptable to have such an afterlife experience. We have plenty of mythological examples of heroes who journeyed into some realm of the dead, did something important there, and then returned to the world of the living. Coming back to life is not unheard of either.

loveboof
01-24-2014, 05:43 PM
I've just had a massive revelation about the ending!

I played through the last bit again to see how it would pan out with Rook dying instead of Alette (probably what is meant to happen story-wise) and realised that the crescent shape isn't the moon at all. It's an eclipse! That perfectly explains the darkness falling over the land.

It also occurred to me that Rook/Alette cross through the darkness in their burial boat to arrive at some sort of spirit world(?), which could be a bit of a hint about what is coming for everyone after the darkness passes... death. Who knows ;) lol

Aleonymous
01-25-2014, 05:42 AM
Here's my rendering of the final scene (currently features as my desktop background), minus some Purple Haze in the bottom, for the sake of conversation and reference.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99633386/TBS_Ending_AleoReComposition_1.jpg

Rensei
01-25-2014, 06:33 AM
Darkness? What darkness?

The sun has STOPPED. While visible. It is still visible. They can tell because they can see it up there not moving.

"Several days ago the sun simply came to a stop in the sky."
On the very first day Ubin is waking up at dawn - at least he hopes its dawn, hard to tell with the sun not moving.

At least that's how I understood it...

The eclipse/moon is happening in the netherworld, where the silver arrow bearer went (and from where we will save them because that's a cool thing to do).

loveboof
01-25-2014, 06:47 AM
Hmm... Well there is darkness creeping across the world too - is that not what the dredge are running from? I guess I'll have to replay the game to pick up on those little details I obviously missed first time round. (Still looks like an eclipse to me lol)

Thanks for posting the final scene up Aleonymous :)

Surtr
01-25-2014, 08:30 AM
That scene is so beautiful! Thanks for posting it.

I'd love to explore that world in the sequel. I hope we've guessed the plot correctly! :)

balnoisi
01-25-2014, 10:09 AM
hmm just guessing but if the "sun stopped in the sky" that would mean that particular earth stopped rotating. and that would certainly cause all kind of disasters worldwide, huge earthquakes the kind of that can create the open cracks in the land Hakon tells Rook he has seen on his way to Boersgard.

because if i understand it properly dredge are underground creatures, they could be pouring out of cracks in the land escaping disasters that render their subterranean kingdom a hell ( if it already wasn't one in the first place ). perhaps it started a while ago, could the dissapearance of the Frostveller lake be related ?

of course all this would be irrelevant if this fantasy world is actually a flat patch of leather or stands on the top of a turtle. but you know, the low-fantasy setting calls for it.

angelcatano
01-26-2014, 01:31 AM
Also, what did Egil do to the gods in a past life that made them curse him with the worst luck since Oedipus? THAT's what I want to know.

Hahaha, maybe he is a God in human form, but suffered from amnesia, and his destiny is to die so he can rise again and save humanity from the darkness! :D (ok, probably not...)

Another thing that I just noticed (playing bits during some down time) when with Juno, the serpent says "The gods are silent and before me stands one who knows not what they have done", Guess this is a bit of a clue onto the Gods probably not being dead, maybe they just fell asleep? :D

The egg white that has become dark? the sky (sun being the yolk?)

And yes, the biggest mistery is the Dark place at the end of the game! GIVE ME ANSWERS STOIC!!!!

EmblaWinterblade
01-27-2014, 07:50 AM
omg it just came to me, what if the female varl where Huldr? http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulder

Corvino
01-27-2014, 11:52 AM
I think rofltehcat may have a point about the Serpent and Niddhoggr, the serpent/dragon that gnaws at the root of Yggdrasil the World Tree in Norse Mythology. Niddhoggr has been seen as a possible herald of Ragnarok, a vast battle between the Gods in which the world is at the same time destroyed and remade. Ragnarok is often understood as some kind of "end-of-the-world" or Apocalyptic scenario which would fit well the what we know of the Banner Saga.

During Ragnarok the various Gods, Giants and Monsters fight and many are killed. The ground splits and sinks beneath the sea, only to re-emerge new and fertile at the end of the battles.

However there are a lot of key events prophesied about Ragnarok - most of which involve Gods. If all the Gods are dead then how can they play out their roles in the Prophesy/Saga? Could this be the source of the Serpent's confusion?

Other parallels between Ragnarok and the Banner Saga:
1) A race of Fire Giants (?Dredge) will invade, their leader is called Surtr (?Sundr).
2) Jormungandr, another great serpent/dragon, will battle Thor leading to both of their deaths. Jormungar in some sources causes the land to breach (the serpent breaking mountains?).
3) Wikipedia says the Poetic Edda mentions the Sun becoming black and the stars disappearing. There is also mention of the wolf Fenrir eating the sun. Could this relate to the coming darkness?
4) Standard end-of-the world type stuff. Brother killing brother, no man will have mercy on another, a wind age, a sword age etc.

TL;DR version: I think there are strong parallels between Ragnarok and the events of the Banner Saga so far, but we may need the Gods to get involved for the world to end and be reborn as it should.

balnoisi
01-27-2014, 01:52 PM
good summary Corvino. most of that mythology serves as inspiration to TBS, but i wouldn't be surprised if they tweak most of it, so we can expect events and characters to take different directions i am sure.

roder
01-28-2014, 01:35 AM
some other ones that I think should be considered:

-the old man event, you take him into your caravan, and afterwards another event occurs where he increases your supplies and disappears (I think he was some God in disguise, but that is my own theory)

-the Dredge and the God they worship, what is the relationship, did the silver have any magical properties, is Bellower really tricked into thinking he was dead. will we see him rise again in Chapter 2
-also what is the relationship with Dredge and serpent, when they first saw it at the Iver vs Bellower encounter they were also bowing to it

-Since either Rook or Alette is dead in chapter 1 (depending on your choice), will we see them in chapter 2 as the main characters, or will the focus shift entirely to another set of characters (Iver, Hakon, Mogr) or even new character parties

-Will keeping Egil alive be an ongoing challenge throughout chapter 2 and 3 xD haha this is for my own personal amusement

CSRosewood
01-28-2014, 03:10 AM
In case it wasn't mention yet, the Frost child doesn't have the ability to sense Dredge. In fact, I believe her prior experience which leaves her stranded and dying along with a slew of corpses is a result of a Dredge encounter. When she is talking, she is trying to warn Rook of the dredge encampment she knows exist down the road but her poor speech bars her with an audio means to do so. She says, "Edj. Edj. Edj." Looks like gibberish the first time I saw it but after reading it out load a couple of times it dawns on me, 'edj' sounds a lot like 'dredge' if you remove the 'dr' at the beginning. It's probably because she's too young to have master proper pronunciation.

CSRosewood
01-28-2014, 03:21 AM
And as far as Bellower and the other Sundr. Bellower is a Sundr but not all Sundr are immortal as implied when Bellower first shows up, and is described as "... the immortal one." I would quote the entire sentience but I'm not 100% certain as to it's exact wording, it goes more along the lines of this, "Of all the Sundr that could have shown up, why the immortal one?" Which implies that Bellower is immortal but also implies that other Sundr aren't necessarily defined with this trait. Whether 'the immortal one' is a singular, meaning Bellower is the only immortal, or a broad description referring to those that are immortal which still isolates a group of Sundr as having this trait. I can not determine if it is one or the other yet. In fact I'm not certain that the word Sundr is used in that exact moment but the context of the sentience I'm quoting is in context of Sundrs.

Corvino
01-28-2014, 07:52 AM
I just had an interesting find browsing the Something Awful thread on The Banner Saga. One of the Devs is posting using the username Chewbot, and has a couple of interesting things to say. Regarding why people think the Gods are dead:

"It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."

angelcatano
01-28-2014, 12:57 PM
I just had an interesting find browsing the Something Awful thread on The Banner Saga. One of the Devs is posting using the username Chewbot, and has a couple of interesting things to say. Regarding why people think the Gods are dead:

"It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."

As I said in a post before, the serpent tells Juno something like "The gods are silent and before me stands one who knows not what they have done", this makes me wonder if they are ereally dead, or maybe, in preparation for Ragnarok(ish) they have stopped communicating with the beings on the world.

Also: Playing I noticed some Varl Infants/Younglings in the Bridge, which could give a clue of how long have the gods been missing, probably not for too long

http://s14.postimg.org/9vi64l6q7/2014_01_26_marked.jpg

Nelson Rosenberg
01-29-2014, 10:10 AM
I think rofltehcat may have a point about the Serpent and Niddhoggr, the serpent/dragon that gnaws at the root of Yggdrasil the World Tree in Norse Mythology. Niddhoggr has been seen as a possible herald of Ragnarok, a vast battle between the Gods in which the world is at the same time destroyed and remade. Ragnarok is often understood as some kind of "end-of-the-world" or Apocalyptic scenario which would fit well the what we know of the Banner Saga.

During Ragnarok the various Gods, Giants and Monsters fight and many are killed. The ground splits and sinks beneath the sea, only to re-emerge new and fertile at the end of the battles.

However there are a lot of key events prophesied about Ragnarok - most of which involve Gods. If all the Gods are dead then how can they play out their roles in the Prophesy/Saga? Could this be the source of the Serpent's confusion?

Other parallels between Ragnarok and the Banner Saga:
1) A race of Fire Giants (?Dredge) will invade, their leader is called Surtr (?Sundr).
2) Jormungandr, another great serpent/dragon, will battle Thor leading to both of their deaths. Jormungar in some sources causes the land to breach (the serpent breaking mountains?).
3) Wikipedia says the Poetic Edda mentions the Sun becoming black and the stars disappearing. There is also mention of the wolf Fenrir eating the sun. Could this relate to the coming darkness?
4) Standard end-of-the world type stuff. Brother killing brother, no man will have mercy on another, a wind age, a sword age etc.

TL;DR version: I think there are strong parallels between Ragnarok and the events of the Banner Saga so far, but we may need the Gods to get involved for the world to end and be reborn as it should.

This was probably the inspiration and my guess is that the serpent was supposed to bring Ragnarok, but the gods died and the darkness beat her to it =) Just want to known why!

Nelson Rosenberg
01-29-2014, 10:13 AM
I just had an interesting find browsing the Something Awful thread on The Banner Saga. One of the Devs is posting using the username Chewbot, and has a couple of interesting things to say. Regarding why people think the Gods are dead:

"It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."

Now I REALLY wanna see a CG scene of the gods dying! Hope we get lots of flashbacks to this scenes. Speaking of the devs, they are awfully quite. Anyone has any words regarding the future of the game? Did it go well in sales so the devs have more money for chpater 2 and such?

Surtr
01-29-2014, 10:16 AM
The gods may be silent, but that doesn't mean they are dead. That whole darkness thing is probably somehow related to the silence of the gods. It seems to me that the serpent has very limited knowledge, like it really has only one purpose for its existence, the devouring of the world, and the spreading darkness has made it almost as confused as the mortals are about the situation. In any case, fascinating stuff! Hard to wait for the sequel. :)

Guest #10358
01-31-2014, 04:05 AM
It has been mentioned but no one has posted a proof so far, so let me do it:
http://i.imgur.com/cFS3twx.jpg

balnoisi
01-31-2014, 02:20 PM
It has been mentioned but no one has posted a proof so far, so let me do it:


angelcatano posted a screen capture just four messages before yours. perhaps it does not display but you can open it in a browser tab. anyway you really wanted it to be seen right ?

Guest #10358
01-31-2014, 02:51 PM
angelcatano posted a screen capture just four messages before yours. perhaps it does not display but you can open it in a browser tab. anyway you really wanted it to be seen right ?

Sorry, I didn't see that, it's not opening. And yeah, I really wanted it to be seen, because I couldn't believe my eyes when the varl-kid suddenly appeared. Nothing more than a small detail on the side, something you usually wouldn't notice.

angelcatano
02-01-2014, 12:01 AM
Sorry, I didn't see that, it's not opening. And yeah, I really wanted it to be seen, because I couldn't believe my eyes when the varl-kid suddenly appeared. Nothing more than a small detail on the side, something you usually wouldn't notice.

Hahaha, yeah, seems to be the same background :cool: think I saw some others in the bridge as well besides the one that I screen capped. Also saw some humans amongst the varl warriors, but guess that's not as exciting as a varlbarn (my norse language-based word for varl infant :o ... my other suggestion is ungvarl :D )

ungvarl
02-08-2014, 05:57 AM
Hahaha, yeah, seems to be the same background :cool: think I saw some others in the bridge as well besides the one that I screen capped. Also saw some humans amongst the varl warriors, but guess that's not as exciting as a varlbarn (my norse language-based word for varl infant :o ... my other suggestion is ungvarl :D )

Hah! Had to register just to compliment you on the names. Both sound right and have amazing connotations. In fact, ungvarl was so good that I took it as a username, even though I am neither very young nor a bachelor. varlbarn is especially appropriate as it kind of sounds like varlborn, which would make sense to non-nordic audiences.

Poison_Berrie
02-28-2014, 09:30 AM
On the topic of Sundr:
I remember Juno mentioning that the Valke(Valka?) and the Sundr are somewhat similar. The Valke, though, can die of old age and new ones are born. The Sundr don't die of old age and (thus) grow stronger with time, but there can't be anymore of them.
There's some stuff about them only showing up in the second Dredge war, which makes me wonder where they came from in relation to the other Dredge (who are implied to be born).

Also how freakish is it that Bellower is apparently immortal to the point that the metal with which gods killed each other can only hurt it and all they can do is trick him into thinking he can be killed.

In regards to the dreams of Hakon and Mogr: That's Juno's doing, no doubt. I think it's mentioned that this is a power that the Valke can have.

When Iver tells Alette to stop being Alette for a while, I thought it was either to get her to return to Boersgard (rather than her trying to vainly help her father, right there) or as to imply to start mourning her father.

Aleonymous
02-28-2014, 12:56 PM
In regards to the dreams of Hakon and Mogr: That's Juno's doing, no doubt.

I'd like to note that Juno's mantle is made of black-raven feathers. The raven-motif is also used in the iconic title-screen of the game.

Pies
03-16-2014, 01:04 AM
"It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."

On the map, the interactive symbol representing the constellations in the upper-left corner tells us that before the gods went silent, the constellations could be interpreted as shapes representing the various gods. After the gods became silent, the constellations were nothing more than a mix of stars with no patterns. This would have been confirmed by people who had lived through the transition, both Varl and Man alike.

I'm wondering if the great serpent isn't an aspect of the sun god, but was instead imprisoned/created by the gods and released upon their deaths. It seems to imply that it's simply a tool with a predetermined purpose, especially with the "you do not know what the gods have done" line, as if it was deliberately sent to consume the tapestry of the world.

Arnie
03-17-2014, 11:57 AM
This is the most fascinating thread I've ever read on the site. It's really cool to read about your theories, both correct and incorrect. When they are incorrect I learn a lot about why you think the way you do and understand it now.
I won't weigh in on any of this, but think once chapter 3 is complete a full book disclosing the world of The Banner Saga could be a cool project.
Clue: You're only "scratching the surface" of the fiction.

Aleonymous
03-17-2014, 12:59 PM
I won't weigh in on any of this, but think once chapter 3 is complete a full book disclosing the world of The Banner Saga could be a cool project.
Clue: You're only "scratching the surface" of the fiction.

Speaking of which, there was a small discussion the other day on the chat, about what the name of this wold is. So that we don't refer to it as "The world of The Banner Saga" :D You should at least give us that little bit of info...!


13-03, 18:44, raven2134 : does the TBS realm/world actually have a name?
13-03, 18:44, raven2134 : seems thats something thats slipped under the radar
13-03, 20:39, Guðmundr : I've asked Arnie a couple times, but he somewhat mysteriously avoided my question both times...
13-03, 20:47, StandSure : That's because it's "Arnsylvania".
13-03, 23:56, Guðmundr : Haha, or "Arnieheim"
14-03, 07:15, netnazgul : why isn't it Alexgard?

Arnie
03-17-2014, 01:39 PM
Speaking of which, there was a small discussion the other day on the chat, about what the name of this wold is. So that we don't refer to it as "The world of The Banner Saga" :D You should at least give us that little bit of info...!

Yes, that is an interesting question, Aleo. I love how Carrots says "Seems thats something thats slipped under the radar." I'm amazed more people have never asked this.

Arnie
03-17-2014, 01:40 PM
Oh yeah...the only point I will weigh in on is the question of whether the gods are dead. Our game starts with 'The gods are dead' and we mean it. :)

raven2134
03-18-2014, 06:51 AM
Oh poo :p. And here I was hoping the prophesy perhaps meant otherwise.

Surtr
03-19-2014, 05:27 AM
Okay, thanks for making that clear! Still leaves a million other things unanswered though. You should work harder to bring us the next game in the trilogy! :D

netnazgul
03-25-2014, 12:43 AM
Okay, thanks for making that clear! Still leaves a million other things unanswered though. You should work harder to bring us the next game in the trilogy! :D
Like they haven't been working hard enough :p

Arnie
03-25-2014, 09:22 AM
Like they haven't been working hard enough :p

We've actually been laying low.
Building our energy.
Waiting.
Lurking.
Like a dragon ship, moored in a fjord ready to pounce on it's prey...and we just took the oars out.

bob the builder
03-25-2014, 10:45 PM
Oh yeah...the only point I will weigh in on is the question of whether the gods are dead. Our game starts with 'The gods are dead' and we mean it. :)

But then when that chick talks to the giant serpent, he seems to suggest that they are not dead. Quite confusing what you just said!

netnazgul
03-28-2014, 03:18 AM
Don't believe serpents

Arnie
04-02-2014, 10:39 AM
Someone post here the exact wording of the serpent scene you're referring to where it's eluded to that the gods are not dead. Odd for a dev to ask, but I, like you, would have to load it up to find out. :)

YaK
04-02-2014, 04:24 PM
Messing with the gamefiles i found a conversation between Hakon and Ubin, probably happening in Ridgehorn, but i didn't rember to experience it in game.

Could anyone confirm if it's there or not?

However it talks a bit on ohters Sunder (naming them)

Here you could fint the cnversatoion:

http://writer.inklestudios.com/stories/gbv2

Aleonymous
04-03-2014, 03:48 AM
Messing with the gamefiles i found a conversation between Hakon and Ubin, probably happening in Ridgehorn, but i didn't rember to experience it in game. Could anyone confirm if it's there or not? However it talks a bit on ohters Sunder (naming them). Here you could fint the cnversatoion: url]http://writer.inklestudios.com/stories/gbv2[/url]

Interesting finding, Yak. I've not come upon this conversation. The JSON-filename for this one is saga1\convo\part1\cnv_chat_narrator2.json.z; these "cnv_chat" files are those mini-chats that can be had with most caravan-members, when you seen their circular portraits while in camp-mode. Frankly, I remember only one of those "chats" with Ubin. Perhaps if you camp right after the falling-treasure-cart event, this would spring up?

Anyway, we're keeping some of the Sundr names here: Eyeless, and Braggart, and Bellower, and Walker. Any speculation on what their powers are? Judging from their nicknames, of course...

natej11
04-10-2014, 01:34 AM
Interesting finding, Yak. I've not come upon this conversation. The JSON-filename for this one is saga1\convo\part1\cnv_chat_narrator2.json.z; these "cnv_chat" files are those mini-chats that can be had with most caravan-members, when you seen their circular portraits while in camp-mode. Frankly, I remember only one of those "chats" with Ubin. Perhaps if you camp right after the falling-treasure-cart event, this would spring up?

Anyway, we're keeping some of the Sundr names here: Eyeless, and Braggart, and Bellower, and Walker. Any speculation on what their powers are? Judging from their nicknames, of course...

Eyeless: leader of the stonesingers? Juno's counterpart on the enemy side. Possible extra powers and a more dangerous passive.
Braggart: similar to a noncom officer, maybe? Unlike Bellower's brute force and unkillability maybe he focuses more on strengthening his allies, particularly the melee ones, as well as high armor for soaking up hits and vicious break so he can be in the thick of the battle turning the tide.
Walker: Braggart's slinger counterpart? Maybe an ability for extra range and high strength so she devastates from behind the lines.

These would be their battle abilities. As for out in the real world events, I could see Walker leading raids, Braggart taking the fore in major battles and sacking major cities, and Eyeless coordinating the war behind the lines as tactician and general. Of the three Eyeless would probably be the target you'd have to fight through the others to get to.

But that's just supposition.

Aleonymous
04-10-2014, 02:44 AM
Eyeless: leader of the stonesingers? Juno's counterpart on the enemy side. Possible extra powers and a more dangerous passive.
Braggart: similar to a noncom officer, maybe? Unlike Bellower's brute force and unkillability maybe he focuses more on strengthening his allies, particularly the melee ones, as well as high armor for soaking up hits and vicious break so he can be in the thick of the battle turning the tide.
Walker: Braggart's slinger counterpart? Maybe an ability for extra range and high strength so she devastates from behind the lines.

These would be their battle abilities. As for out in the real world events, I could see Walker leading raids, Braggart taking the fore in major battles and sacking major cities, and Eyeless coordinating the war behind the lines as tactician and general. Of the three Eyeless would probably be the target you'd have to fight through the others to get to.

But that's just supposition.

Eyeless sounds like an Arch-Stonesinger to me too; I'd expect magical abilities. Braggart... I'd imagine something similar to the Provoker. Or, maybe, having an ability that boosts his stats (or makes them seem boosted), for one turn or more? Bragging has a generally negative connotation, so maybe its a negative passive (like Splinter). Walker could be an exceptionally long-striding unit, e.g. moving 6 tiles +Exertion. As for Bellower, well... he bellows! :)

NuclearShadow
05-11-2014, 04:49 PM
I would like to point out that the "sun stopping" would be a sign that the people of the world are unaware that their planet rotates and are of the primitive mind that the sun is the object that rotates similar to our history. So the sun did not stop the planet either ceased to rotate or has slowed down to a extreme degree causing days and nights to last huge amounts of time. This would also explain the darkness "coming" as the planets rotation being much slower would make night appear as it is creeping forward while on the other side of the planet the day would be just starting. So the darkness that sends the dredge south out of fear is simply night, the game makes mention of them seemingly being starving too, going after a deer early in the game and a ox during the treasure wagon event. They aren't attacking because they are evil, they are attacking because they are desperate and hungry likely running out of resources on the dark side of the planet.

This of course raises a question of what caused the planet's rotation which very well may be the serpent being the most likely cause, as it hints it was meant to kill all life and we saw how powerful it and how it's able to effect the planet so easily smashing giant mountains like nothing. Perhaps it can burrow underground and effect the planet's speed. It also appears to think the Dredge would ruin its "destiny" of killing all life before it can and despite its power seemingly is not a fighter by nature and was meant to kill the planet slowly like a hand over someone's face smothering them out.

I think my theories hold up and may be spoilers to come.

Aleonymous
05-14-2014, 04:16 AM
Interesting theories, NuclearShadow :) I would be wary of introducing scientific explanations to a fantasy world, but they do serve sometimes.

The only small "hole" in your theory is that the darkness (i.e. the long/ever-lasting night [that follows the long/ever-lasting day]) is reported to be spreading from the north, and not from east, as one would expect in a system where the sun moves from east-to-west.

The Dredge being pushed south by starvation is already talked about in the game. However, they don't seem to be relying on green-life (which is affected by day/night cycles) since they are supposed to be living underground and in the frozen northern wastes... So, what do the dredge feed on? And, why are they so ever-hostile (on sight) against human and Varl?

Finally, I agree that the Serpent plays a very important role in the "world-management" of The Banner Saga. I am not sure if it is evil. I think it should just be thought of as a force of nature or destiny...

CSRosewood
05-14-2014, 04:44 AM
I had similar ideas that you mention. However, I think the serpent is a reference to the one that describes one of the gods as a serpent in the sun. So, of course, a creature that lived in the sun would have no concept of darkness. Therefore, the night frightens him and he can't reek havoc the way he wants to.

Fazolt
05-22-2014, 07:11 PM
I would just like to add my own little theory (don't know whether or not this has been covered yet) but every time you stop and inspect a god stone in the game something positive happens, you get an item or some other form of help. Because of this I do not believe the gods are actually dead, possibly temporarily defeated. To prove this I would point out the event at god stone Marek, I believe it was, correct me if I'm wrong, in which you are given fish scale armor if you allow your caravan to wait at the god stone and collect the seemingly ominous fish scales. Rook even ponders that the caravan is being influenced by some foreign power, and that even he now desires a scale, though this seems ominous, it actually turns out to be rewarding. When all the scales are collected your caravan makes a fish scale coat for you. And if I remember correctly and this was in fact god stone Marek at which this event occurred, Marek is the god of the sea and fish, and his stone is located in the Nordfelling wastes, a land once covered by water. As it seems to me that this stone has the power to influence both you and your villagers, and helps you when you accept it's influence, I can only conclude that Marek is alive and wishes you well.

Aleonymous
05-25-2014, 01:25 PM
I would just like to add my own little theory (don't know whether or not this has been covered yet) but every time you stop and inspect a god stone in the game something positive happens, you get an item or some other form of help. [...] I can only conclude that [god] is alive and wishes you well.

That's an interesting theory. Stoic have been quite harsh about this "The gods are dead" fact, so it might prove a big plot-twist if they are found to be alive and lounging somewhere at their leisure :) Especially that Loom Mother, who's supposed to be the arch-deity among them. We'll have to wait and see!

Here's a list of the items acquired at the Godstones in the order by which you meet them:

Bjarken Rune -- Hridvaldyr
Five Ring Necklace -- Denglr
Gullinfyri -- Radormyr
Godscale -- Marek
Farthingjord -- Hadrborg
Puzzle box of the Twin Rivers -- Dundr
Vadrun Silver Brooch -- Ingrid
Tistelberry -- Bjorulf (needs Hogun alive)
Stravhs' Whetstone -- Stravhs

Check the wiki for more info on items (http://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/Items) and godstones (http://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/Godstones)

Fazolt
05-26-2014, 11:25 AM
Expanding on the dream Hakon and Mogr have about the ravens leading them off a cliff, I would add that it is possibly an analogy that bears relevance to the Raven mercenary group. It might as well have something to do with Yrsa, whom before the dream burns a Raven whilst Hakon talks with her.

danisab
05-29-2014, 10:44 PM
I tried to post once but it seems like it didn't come through. :(

I think these speculations are great. The part I liked the most from the game was the setting/plot after all. One thing I haven't seem being mentioned is about the tapestry, the snake and the menders. We know that the Snake said to Juno it was supposed to eat the tapestry of the world but atm is unable to do so since the Sun stopped. We've seem some theories regarding the Gods and what may have been their role in all of this. But what is this tapestry? If I'm not mistaken, when you talk with Eyvind about his powers he says he does so by manipulating the tapestry of the world and that he is special in doing that. So, what exactly is that? Is it the "fountain" of magic? The very fabric of reality in a string theory? Why the Snake can't eat it while Eyvind seems to be able to still manipulate it? His lightning arc animation seems to also involve strings in some way. Maybe the darkness or whatever the dredge are running from explains this?^

Secondly, about the snake: I think the Loom Mother has a bigger part in all of this. Why we haven't been to her Godstone? These were made by the Gods - as implied in game. Is she "banished"? Also, it wouldn't be the first time a creator God wants to destroy its creations. Happened all the time lol Could the Snake be her harbinger of destruction? It also seems that the game is making numerous references to Ragnarok (races being in the brink of extinction, gods going down, world devourer snake et al). Is there any new parallels we could make?

About the Gods; I think they are, indeed, dead. But I also think they're coming back from the dead. It's not unusual to hear about underworlds where the Dead inhabit in mythologies. Even Gods can go there, after all. The Titans in greek myths, Hel in to the Norse, Osiris, etc. The Gods could be dead but also be actively trying to come back to life. That may explain why the Godstones still show signs of "divine power". These could be conduits to these Gods powers and still "work" even though they have fallen. Because these seems ominous tips that they aren't gone for good. And the snake - which keep popping up in my text - said she was talking to Juno - who thought the Gods dead - someone who has no idea of what they have done. Why's that? Is she ignorant of what caused their death or is she oblivious to the true nature of what happened? If the person who said the thing about "gods falling down from the sky" is really a dev and is to be trusted, this could lead us to the plane of existence were the bearer of the silver arrow went to. We seemed to be in a place in which stars were really prominent. But, as said, I do think they are dead. Especially since the people of the world seem pretty confident about it.

"Clue: You're only "scratching the surface" of the fiction." Arnie said that not long ago in this thread. I think this is another 'clue' into going downwards AKA hel. The Gods have, indeed, fallen from the stars. They are now in the Depths, where the dead 'live'. There are water spirits. And we've seem that there's an afterlife on this universe. Especially since nor Rook/Alette did something special. They were dead and seemed to reach the next life in the boat, as everyone who was properly sent off. And about the theories of rook being sent because he will come back to Alette in any way: I think that this was only regarding going to the Godstone, when Juno said she choose him just in the case of things going awry; he would find his way back to the city to go on with the plan. Not necessarily t he would come back from the dead. She didn't even imply that Rook could be dead from the shooting.

About the Dredge: Aren't they kinda human? It seems that they have a "biological" body behind their armor, or at the very least, a face.

And the think that intrigues me the most - must be my Iberian side: I'm pretty sure we don't know about lots of places from the World. In the map, south to the Horseborne lands, the landmass extends itself to unknown legends. Also, what about the item Calabilla? It states that this is foreign, and its motifs and execution seem very meso-american to me. Could it be overseas? After all no one came from "the other side" of the ocean yet. And I don't think this could be somewhere from the lands we known. Then, what does this means? The whole thing must be going down there too. And Meso-american cultures also had a lots of snakes.

After all, I think Mother Loom will play a really big role in the coming chapters. She is the creator force of life and the world, and it seems to be fading away. She is suspiciously deprived of a Godstone so far, which usually reveal some interesting aspect on the nature of these Gods. And Unnar could be Banner Saga's own Tom Bombadil!

Aleonymous
06-02-2014, 08:48 AM
Very nice theory-crafting danisab :) We'll see how close to the mark they hit, when the trilogy is concluded and all that there is to be said is revealed! I am gonna comment/expand on some of your points:

Loom Mother & Tapestry: The thread/pattern/tapestry motif is quite common in fiction (and religion) as a means to simplify the meanings of 'fate' and 'destiny', as a result of innumerable interweaving of different persons or events or story-branches. This tapestry is hence directly related to 'prophecy', i.e. the future of the world. I believe the "Loom-Mother" is set as an arch-deity because she is most directly related to the "Tapestry" which is, as I said, a record of "what's meant to happen" in the game-world. I am not sure if the Loom-Mother makes part of the dead gods. However, I believe her godstone was not met (yet!) because she plays a far more important part than the rest of gods, so there's more in store for her!

Serpent & Tapestry: Now, (a) what is the serpent, (b) why does it want to devour the Tapestry and (c) why it can't do it, are questions that I have no clear answer... It seems that the Serpent is something 'exterior' to the world, so it can't be called "good" or "bad", it just goes about its business. It seems not to care/know about the gods, but it is aware of the Valka, so maybe (as you said), the Menders & the Serpent have some things in common through their 'attachment' to the Tapestry. What is the Serpents role? Maybe it's just a mechanism that is supposed to destroy the world ("what is meant to be"), so that it may be born again. Something like the "perpetual circle" religions, usually depicted by a serpent eating its own tail.

Gods being dead: As the game-world's people (and the devs) have said multiple times, that stands as a pure-and-clear fact; no questioning it! What's really annoying is why there is no indication about when they died and how they died, or at least the events that lead to that (some small part of that is explained by Juno at the Stravh's godstone). Now, whether or not they can be "resurrected" or something, is not really mentioned, so it might just happen!

"The other side" is where Rook/Alette 'went' after his/her death, in the cinematic sequence in the end of the first game. A really mysterious place, obviously shrouded in darkness (in contrast to the bright "sun stopped in the sky" real-world), but also with myriads of stars and a moon/sun eclipse like thing... Oh, and those two glowing trees! I don't know what to make of this, realy...

That said, I really hope Stoic have a rigorous structure of their world's fiction, and they're not throwing assorted mysteries here-and-there to create a feeling of profoundness to be explored/elaborated later! :D

Arnie
06-23-2014, 10:13 PM
That said, I really hope Stoic have a rigorous structure of their world's fiction, and they're not throwing assorted mysteries here-and-there to create a feeling of profoundness to be explored/elaborated later! :D

Haha...you know us better than that, Aleo! Nosir, we've had the end from the beginning the whole time. This was designed as one story with a beginning, middle and end. Stay tuned.

Aleonymous
06-24-2014, 03:58 AM
We've had the end from the beginning the whole time. This was designed as one story with a beginning, middle and end. Stay tuned.

That's with I loved Tolkien's Silmarillion so much. Because I read it after The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings which had hinted at all those mysteries and had created this feeling of profoundness in his fantasy-world. Tolkien, like you, had already outlined all the back-stories that made the "body of legends" that is Silmarillion before he started writing the other two books that have a much tighter story-arc. So it was natural for him to "spice" them with bits of legend/lore. The problems start to arise when things already published don't glue well together or are conflicting with what you want to write next ("explore/elaborate later")...

Yngvar
06-25-2014, 05:52 PM
The other side looks like a dreamlike representation of Yggdrasil's roots.

The serpent reminds me of the creature Uroboros, a worm according to the Nordic mythology.

http://sia2.subirimagenes.net/img/2014/06/26/140626125910918682.jpg (http://www.subirimagenes.net/i/140626125910918682.jpg)

Aleonymous
06-26-2014, 03:23 AM
The other side looks like a dreamlike representation of Yggdrasil's roots.

The serpent reminds me of the creature Uroboros, a worm according to the Nordic mythology.



Indeed! There are "black roots" in the final sequence, and the funeral-boat is traversing thought them to come and stand between the two trees. Uroboros is our Serpent, then, no doubt about that!

btw -- A very nice image, Yngvar.

Wuodan
07-04-2014, 11:54 AM
The other side looks like a dreamlike representation of Yggdrasil's roots.

The serpent reminds me of the creature Uroboros, a worm according to the Nordic mythology.

http://sia2.subirimagenes.net/img/2014/06/26/140626125910918682.jpg (http://www.subirimagenes.net/i/140626125910918682.jpg)

I'm afraid you might be mistaken, at least as far as the name is concerned, the creature you are referring to is known as "Jörmungandr" in the northern germanic mythology or the "Midgardschlange" as we say down here. It shares some characteristics with the graeco-egyptian "Ouroboros", but is a different being entirely.

Aleonymous
07-05-2014, 03:50 PM
I'm afraid you might be mistaken, at least as far as the name is concerned, the creature you are referring to is known as "Jörmungandr" in the northern germanic mythology or the "Midgardschlange" as we say down here. It shares some characteristics with the graeco-egyptian "Ouroboros", but is a different being entirely.

Hmm, maybe Níðhöggr (wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidhogg) is the same thing as Jörmungandr (wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rmungandr)? It seems not, even though the two creatures are similar... By the way, Ouroboros (wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros)) is a greek word meaning "he who eats his tail" (Ουρά=tail and -βόρος=-eater).

Fazolt
07-06-2014, 08:55 AM
Nidhöggr is a dragon who gnaws on the roots under Niflheim at Yggdrasil's base. He releases the dead during Ragnarök, and rises to join the battle (or at least as much is assumed). Jörmagundr is Loki's son, technically a giant, giants are capable of taking different forms, and often have a preferred form, and a humanoid form, Jörmagundr though seems to have only his form as a serpent, by Angrboda, whom upon birth is tossed into the sea. Eventually Jörmagundr becomes so large he encircles the world far enough that the only way to grasp the world is by eating his own tail, if he lets go the world will sink into the sea, as it does in Ragnarök due to the fire released by Surtr.

Fazolt
07-06-2014, 08:57 AM
Lastly, an Ouroboros is simply any symbol, image, or representation of a serpent consuming it's tail, most frequently noted in literature, or mythology, it's what you might call a motif in literature.

Fazolt
07-06-2014, 09:03 AM
Lastly, in response to Danis, the dredge have a body under their armor, it is a thick obsidian skin-like substance. They also seem to require food, the same as humans, as noted by their raiding of villages, and by the dredge who stole Rook and Alette's supplies in chapter 2.

Yngvar
07-07-2014, 01:20 PM
Uroboros, or whatever his name variation is, is just a symbol not -but still could be- a leifmotiv.

There are some common traits through our different cultural roots, from Mediterranean to North Sea and back again.

Nidhöggr is our serpent then and Jörmagundr is just another name for the old circle of endless life known as Uroboros and so.

Thanks for the light, Fazolt.

shigad
07-26-2014, 05:37 PM
Those are some great questions about the Varl lanegilliam. As far as I understand, the Varl were created by the gods and the gods created new Varl constantly, which is why there are older Varl and new Varl. Probably the first ones were killed in the wars and new ones were created to replace them. I think only Kurmr mentions fighting in the first war. This leads to the conclusion that there are not female Varl, which is supported by their usual lack of concern for woman and children.
BUT, I hear a user mentioning in Stem forums that you can see a child Varl in one of the bridge battles (I did not notice it) and this little bit of race profile you mentioned would lead to the conclusion that if they have families, there must be Varl women and children (I wasn't aware of this race profile). This is very strange indeed, let's add to the questions.

As for the kendr dinamyc I think it has to do with who takes over if you fall and as such it can be used in a number of contexts. The kendr of the king will be the next king, but the kendr of a general could be the one who leads his armies in case the general falls. I think it also has some hint of brother-in-arms kind of thing.

On the brith topic, yes, the Varl are not immortal but can become very old. They were create by the gods and are probably not born, but come to life as adults since not one of them mentions any childhood. Since the gods are dead new Varl are not being created to replace the dead ones. The precise manner in wich a Varl is create is still unknown, but we can assume it can only be done by the gods (until now).

also the varl culture don't understand females, as you can see iver killed raze when she "looked pathethic" as he said.

shigad
07-30-2014, 10:55 PM
about dredge infants or whatever, did you notice that dredge slingers dont have pants but skirts
also you can easily see the dredge body. in this picture for example you can see his mouth, cheeks, chin, and yellow eyes
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bannersaga.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/68/Grunt_icon.png/64px-Grunt_icon.png?version=ae9bacaa828827a067acab5fb15 d4c86

Aleonymous
07-31-2014, 06:37 AM
about dredge infants or whatever, did you notice that dredge slingers dont have pants but skirts
also you can easily see the dredge body. in this picture for example you can see his mouth, cheeks, chin, and yellow eyes
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bannersaga.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/68/Grunt_icon.png/64px-Grunt_icon.png?version=ae9bacaa828827a067acab5fb15 d4c86

Connecting the pieces of the "slinger puzzle", once we found out they were female dredge, was quite easy :) I am not sure what parts of what we see of dredge is their armor and what is their actual body... Another mystery!

shigad
08-03-2014, 02:30 PM
i see simly a grey-brown skinned man with yellow eyes wearin a helmet at this picture. can't you see it? can't you see his lips? can't you see those age details at his cheeks? just beetween the nose-sield and the side of the helmet.

shigad
08-03-2014, 02:31 PM
simply*

shigad
08-03-2014, 02:43 PM
look at those:
1/ http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bannersaga.gamepedia.com/c/ca/Dredge.png
there you can see that his fingers has folds, like human fingers
2/ http://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/File:Scourge_icon.png
in that one you can even see his teeth, and edge of the nose.
3/ http://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/File:Stoneguard_icon.png
very clear view of lips and face without shadow.
4/ http://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/File:Bellower_icon.png
he has a lot of age details, you can see his lips.

are you convinced now that dredge are not made of armor and that we can see their actual bodies?

Aleonymous
08-04-2014, 02:16 AM
Are you convinced now that dredge are not made of armor and that we can see their actual bodies?

Well, yeah, but, I didn't say that they were like hollow suits-of-armor inhabited by a yellow-eyed spirit :D What I meant to say is whether this armor can be discarded, or is it actually part of their body, e.g. like the turtle's shell.

shigad
08-10-2014, 04:46 PM
oh! now i get it

Guðmundr
08-10-2014, 07:32 PM
Well, yeah, but, I didn't say that they were like hollow suits-of-armor inhabited by a yellow-eyed spirit :D What I meant to say is whether this armor can be discarded, or is it actually part of their body, e.g. like the turtle's shell.

This is an interesting discussion!

Dredge armor is almost always quite geometric, with lots of straight lines and flat surfaces, which doesn't seem very organic to me. I also just noticed that the Stonesinger (http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bannersaga.gamepedia.com/1/1f/Stone_singer_master.png) (which I assume is not a separate species from the rest of the dredge, just as the menders are fully human) armor appears to be made of the same material as the rest of the dredge armor, but interestingly, there are clearly several layers of clothing between their skin and the armor.

I'm curious if we'll ever get to see a dredge that isn't dressed for battle :P

shigad
08-11-2014, 03:09 PM
for the same topic:

A. stronger melee dredge have blue/white symbol instead of the grey/brown one. can be part of their body? (perhaps kind of they are getting stronger at one stage of life, and on that stage their armor changes a little bit)
B. about species, some of the dredge are bigger, maybe there ARE SubRaces to the dredge race.
little bit different than the topic:
C. at chapter 7, when going to sthravs (is it the right name?) godstone you see a lot of dredge looking at two stonesinger doing kind of god worship or some sacrificing, which leads to the dredge have religion

natej11
08-17-2014, 02:40 PM
I wonder if the dredge are similar to trolls in World of Warcraft, where random trolls are born as berserkers that are freakishly large and misshapen. Another possibility is that the large dredge are males and the smaller stoneslingers are females, which would make sense if the stoneslingers haven't been seen before and the entire dredge nation is fleeing the north.

Aleonymous
08-19-2014, 07:05 AM
Dredge armor is almost always quite geometric, with lots of straight lines and flat surfaces, which doesn't seem very organic to me. I also just noticed that the Stonesinger (http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bannersaga.gamepedia.com/1/1f/Stone_singer_master.png) (which I assume is not a separate species from the rest of the dredge, just as the menders are fully human) armor appears to be made of the same material as the rest of the dredge armor, but interestingly, there are clearly several layers of clothing between their skin and the armor.

I'm curious if we'll ever get to see a dredge that isn't dressed for battle :P

The Stonesinger is peculiar for another reason: He/She seems to have an eyeless mask over her face, whereas all the other Dredge have their (yellow) eyes exposed. Perhaps this "blindness" is related to their extra-short movement range (just two tiles) and is also the cost they pay for their "magical" abilities. Finally, I do believe they are female, due to their slender frame, compared to Grunts, Stoneguard and Scourge.



1. stronger melee dredge have blue/white symbol instead of the grey/brown one. can be part of their body? (perhaps kind of they are getting stronger at one stage of life, and on that stage their armor changes a little bit)
2. about species, some of the dredge are bigger, maybe there ARE SubRaces to the dredge race.
little bit different than the topic:
3. at chapter 7, when going to sthravs (is it the right name?) godstone you see a lot of dredge looking at two stonesinger doing kind of god worship or some sacrificing, which leads to the dredge have religion

1. Yes, brighter armor-colors do seem to indicate a "stronger" Dredge version...
2. I am also very curious about that size-difference.
3. Juno observes that the Dredge hold Stravhs in reverence, but she's not sure about the reason. It surely seems like a religious ritual or something. Also, there, as well as in the Boersgard Proving-Grounds (final battle), we see a lot of the those slender, staff-bearing Dredge, that seem like female ones. Here they are:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99633386/TBS_NewDredgeTypes.png


This blue-caped one seems like a leader of sorts, being all alone in-front, and holding a large axe-like weapon (?).
Those hold short staffs and their heads are wrapped in cloth just like...
..the standard Stonesinger.
They hold long staffs and are also capped and have their heads wrapped in cloth.
What are they holding? Something like a book? They almost seem like wearing hats...



Another possibility is that the large dredge are males and the smaller stoneslingers are females, which would make sense if the stoneslingers haven't been seen before and the entire dredge nation is fleeing the north.

This is actually explained in the game, in Chapter 6 (at the Ingrid Godstone), that the slinger-dredge are all females!

shigad
08-21-2014, 05:46 PM
But, there are also dredge grunts, which are in normal human size.

shigad
12-16-2014, 05:11 PM
time to revive this thread with theories for TBS 2! :D
fst of all, dredge has blood confirmed if you had doubt of them having flesh bodies:
http://youtu.be/OGOd-oyx7bw?t=30s

Nelson Rosenberg
12-16-2014, 06:33 PM
Gosh I had completely forgot about this thread =) Feel free to update my initial list everyone!

Aleonymous
12-17-2014, 04:35 AM
time to revive this thread with theories for TBS 2! :D
fst of all, dredge has blood confirmed if you had doubt of them having flesh bodieshttp://youtu.be/OGOd-oyx7bw?t=30s

There's surely some liquid there, yes. Besides, we've seen a hint of that in TBS1 as well, when Ludin or Tryggvi "Impaled" a dredge...

Arnie
01-13-2015, 03:36 PM
On a more simple note: what are those blue "grenades" the Dredge slingers throw made from? Is that magic? Alchemy? :)

Grrr...this is the most amazing thread and I want to jump in and answer every question, like this one here. But I'm holding off hoping more and more becomes known from playing The Banner Saga 2! Once we ship 3 I'll take the kid gloves off and weigh in on it all.

Redlar
03-03-2015, 09:06 PM
I can't help but wonder if the "Darkness" consuming the world is somehow tied to the creation of the Living Banner in Arberrang. Like, maybe the Banner represents the world, and if something isn't recorded on it then that unfortunate part of the world not important enough to be sewn into it is destroyed. That might be why the Serpent reacts with contempt when he finds out Juno is a Valka and comments to the effect of "They know not what they have done," since the Banner was created by the Valka in the first place.

I also found it interesting that the Darkness was described as "The egg white turned black." Doesn't this imply that their entire world is just a yolk, something that is destined to be consumed in order to birth a new life? But something has clearly gone wrong with the cosmological cycles and now the purpose of the world has been thrown out of whack. Which isn't to say that the gods dying is part of the problem; all the gods die in Ragnarok, after all, and that's treated as normal and part of the saga.

If we do reach Arberrang in Banner Saga 2, I'm looking forward to seeing this Living Banner and learning more about the mythology of the world in general.

Aleonymous
03-04-2015, 03:32 AM
the "Darkness" consuming the world is somehow tied to the creation of the Living Banner in Arberrang.

the Darkness was described as "The egg white turned black."

Interesting theories. Where did you read about this "Living" Banner? I thought it was simply the "Great" Banner, or something. My memory doesn't serve me so well, so I have to replay the game in order to fish those particular details. The start of chapter 5, with the discussion between Juno and the Serpent, is maybe the most "juicy" part...

angelcatano
03-27-2015, 07:39 AM
YES! Coul;dn't sleep, something make me think of this thread, and OH! I see new trailer for TBS2? :D

I am very excited to see the horseborn there (missed the detail the first time I saw the trailer), I'm sure the devs had the idea of having them in the game/story for a long time, but I like to think that my wishing of that to happen also had something to do with it.

Ratatoskr
03-27-2015, 08:16 PM
If I remember correctly, and it's been a while, the whole point of the Living Banner was that it was magic and essentially updated automatically. Which would actually fit pretty well into the theory that anything not important enough to appear on the banner ends up eaten by the dark.

And I at least am quite looking forward to Arnie's eventual rant of explanations. I'm as much interested in learning about the world of the Banner Saga as I am actually playing more of the game. Damn those unanswered questions.

Nelson Rosenberg
08-27-2015, 11:05 AM
Wow, and here I was thinking the post was dead =) nice to see how many of you continued searching for clues and that the devs chipped in a little! Thanks a lot!

Now we shall start with the mysteries in TBS2!

On another note, does anyone know if I can put the list of mysteries in a public place where everyone can edit and contribute?

Aleonymous
08-27-2015, 01:53 PM
On another note, does anyone know if I can put the list of mysteries in a public place where everyone can edit and contribute?

Two alternatives come to mind: (a) a page on game-wiki presently at gamepedia, (b) an open GoogleDoc. Setting this up is easy, the problem is to find somebody to draft and edit it! If you can make a first draft, I can try to share it with one of the methods outlined.

Nelson Rosenberg
08-27-2015, 02:20 PM
Two alternatives come to mind: (a) a page on game-wiki presently at gamepedia, (b) an open GoogleDoc. Setting this up is easy, the problem is to find somebody to draft and edit it! If you can make a first draft, I can try to share it with one of the methods outlined.

I can do a GoogleDoc, no problem, but I've never done a wikipedia article. I think my first post is still a good start, compiling a lot of the questions until now.

here a Public GoogleDocs version of it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zjJ0OQARLP9V8CCE3ZIon8ybt-00ZGUh8MI6-GzjC7g/edit

Thanks a lot!

Aleonymous
08-27-2015, 02:40 PM
Awesome! :cool:

So, this latest version of your first post that you copy-pasted into that GoogleDoc is a wrap-up of all the (~130) posts, both in this thread and in the respective steam-forum thread? :eek: Lets leave it for a couple of weeks to "flourish" and them I'll move it into the gamepedia wiki as well. By the way, this weekend is PAX prime weekend, so we might hear something new for TBS2 and that might spring some forum activity as well ;)

Nelson Rosenberg
08-27-2015, 02:50 PM
Awesome! :cool:

So, this latest version of your first post that you copy-pasted into that GoogleDoc is a wrap-up of all the (~130) posts, both in this thread and in the respective steam-forum thread? :eek: Lets leave it for a couple of weeks to "flourish" and them I'll move it into the gamepedia wiki as well. By the way, this weekend is PAX prime weekend, so we might hear something new for TBS2 and that might spring some forum activity as well ;)

Gosh, no, not a complete wrap-up as I lost track of this for quite a bit and I never returned to the steam-forum, as I figured here would be a better place to post it.

I would be glad if anyone could go over the thread again and add anything that is missing.

Nelson Rosenberg
08-27-2015, 03:07 PM
Ok I think I updated the GoogleDoc with all the post from this thread. As I said I've never returned to the thread in Steam (I don't have access to it ATM), so if a kind soul could update anything new from there you would be more than welcome =)

YaK
06-17-2016, 07:42 AM
Have anyone noticed that the carvings on Ingrid's spear, at her godstones, are really similar to Triggvy's one?

Aleonymous
06-17-2016, 07:49 AM
Are they?

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bannersaga.gamepedia.com/d/d4/Ingrid.png
http://gamingtest.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/tryggvi_item.png

In Saga2, it is inferred that Tryggvi is actually a Kragsman.

YaK
06-17-2016, 08:08 AM
Well, looking in details they are somewhat similar, but not really similar. Who knows.

YaK
12-05-2016, 09:00 PM
digging in the string.json files, i found a couple of maybe "hint" on possibile/unfinished character or maybe are them just the same 'ol heroes translated in other languages?

Anyway:

"Dusi"
"Finnr"
"Hadr"
"Knutt" (Maybe the Bear of the Bearlord in the last battle in Arberrang, King side?)
"Yrsula"

Am i missing something?

Aleonymous
12-06-2016, 03:39 AM
Dusi --> The Mender Council "president" who gets attacked by Juno/Eyvind/Iver in Chapter 15.
Finnr --> I think this was the original name for the character that eventually became Dytch. His face was also different, that of an older man.
Hadr --> Is the leader of the remaining human defenders at Old Ford, met by the Ravens in Chapter 13.
Knutt --> ? (Not to be confused with Kvig, also known as the "Last One" was the last Varl made, making him the youngest, who was rescued from Einartoft sacking by Fasolt)
Yrsula --> Maybe the full (or original) name of Yrsa?


I don't know if these were all intended to be normal heroes (usable in combat) and got dumped...

nafeij
12-06-2016, 04:20 AM
Couldn't Finnr also be the man Sparr was referring to at the Irynx godstone?

Aleonymous
12-06-2016, 06:54 AM
Indeed. Here's the excerpt:


[Sparr] "We'd run a job for a man - Fefr or Finnr... Faener more like," he says, spitting at the memory. "He set us up to take the fall for some of his other deals gone bad. We got surrounded here and this bear of a varl loses his mind. Grabs a tree - a whole tree! - and starts swinging!"

I'll have to look at my archive at home to recover the portrait of that would-be-Dytch, and this name.

YaK
12-06-2016, 10:49 AM
Ha! I should have known that the Skald (our lovely moderator) could answer my questions! Anyway i remember that the last varl done was named "Kvig".

Aleonymous
12-06-2016, 11:05 AM
Anyway i remember that the last varl done was named "Kvig".

Oops, I stand corrected. Again! :o (editing my post above)

Ratatoskr
12-07-2016, 09:57 AM
So... apparently Juno and Eyvind destroyed the world. Possibly by trying to become Gods. And somehow betrayed Bellower along the way.
Anyone else dying to find out what really happened?

stoicmom
12-07-2016, 11:15 AM
Hahaha! You know it!!

YaK
12-07-2016, 12:38 PM
Personally, the "Mysteries" that interest me more are all the untold stories of Krumr. I am keeping him alive just because he always says "One day i will tell you of that time that I...", and because i love him, of course.

Ratatoskr
12-07-2016, 12:47 PM
Personally, the "Mysteries" that interest me more are all the untold stories of Krumr. I am keeping him alive just because he always says "One day i will tell you of that time that I...", and because i love him, of course.

Oh yeah, Krumr has some of the best random stories. I admit, I wouldn't mind hearing more about a lot of the minor characters.

Aleonymous
12-07-2016, 02:39 PM
Do you think that Krumr's stories are made up (you know how old people tend to "invent" stories) or did he actually experience them? Also, I was a bit sad to see Ubin take off with those Horseborn. Do you think we've seen the last of him?

Ratatoskr
12-07-2016, 03:21 PM
Personally I prefer to believe that Krumr's stories are 100% true. And I still want to know why he filled a whale with yox teeth.

I also can't believe we've seen the last of Ubin yet.

YaK
12-07-2016, 03:38 PM
Yeh, i also believe in Krumr's stories and i am pretty sure Ubin will have and important role in Saga 3. At least i hope so.

As expressed elsewhere, i would love DLCs (or maybe just a part of BS3!) in which Ubin told stories of the old days and you could have short caravan/battle flashbacks, maybe in a black&white/Sepia palette.

All the things that the scrivener has written till now should be put at good use :)

For example, Ubin telling stories to the young horseborns, while travel(l)ing with them. How he took part in the first wars, how Karl the varl ( :p ) ended up in the lake in a battle when he was a youngster or similar things.

It would be also nice if at a certain point (for example before a great announced battle) different players would tell part of their story around a campfire in the same way (of how Hakon arrived to Boersgard, one or more of Krumr's stories, something completely loony and criptic by Tryggvi or a bit of madness from Ekkill or whatever.

Maybe they could read their banners!

There is so much lore that could be "played".

Ratatoskr
12-07-2016, 03:45 PM
Yeh, i also believe in Krumr's stories and i am pretty sure Ubin will have and important role in Saga 3. At least i hope so.

As expressed elsewhere, i would love DLCs (or maybe just a part of BS3!) in which Ubin told stories of the old days and you could have short caravan/battle flashbacks, maybe in a black&white/Sepia palette.

All the things that the scrivener has written till now should be put at good use :)

For example, Ubin telling stories to the young horseborns, while travel(l)ing with them. How he took part in the first wars, how Karl the varl ( :p ) ended up in the lake in a battle when he was a youngster or similar things.

It would be also nice if at a certain point (for example before a great announced battle) different players would tell part of their story around a campfire in the same way (of how Hakon arrived to Boersgard, one or more of Krumr's stories, something completely loony and criptic by Tryggvi or a bit of madness from Ekkill or whatever.

Maybe they could read their banners!

There is so much lore that could be "played".

Oh my God. You have just given me the ultimate Banner Saga wish list. That would all be amazing. And I always want to hear more from the side characters. I've gotten really attached to most of them from just a few scattered conversations.

YaK
12-07-2016, 04:26 PM
Sincerly, not overanalazying (and it's not easy for me):

1. With Saga 2 talents, classes and items variation, the "Combat" is fine, while it could became a bit boring in the second half of first game. A plus could be being able to "respec" the characters to try different approaches to every battles, but it's really a minor thing. Let's just say the actual recipe works.

2. Art style and Music have always been awesome (more polishing is always nice, but i promised to not overanalyze).


3. Starving and caravan management are still shallow and also wars needs a lot more tuning. They lack "a purpose". The situation is better in Saga2 than Saga1, but not enough, in my opinion.


But what i would REALLY like to see, are more stories, more text, more funny dialogues, more Tryggvi, more lore, more icelandic speaks :p (like the Raider Chieftain of the first game) more complex cities events (like Boersgard, that it's not perfect, but it's really interesting) and less "filler" villages with nothing to offer apart a market and two line of dialogues.

Aleonymous
12-07-2016, 05:47 PM
...tell part of their story around a campfire...

Alas, this type of campfire happiness requires cozy darkness (e.g. a star-lit night), but the Darkness that is approaching ain't nothing but cozy it seems :p


There is so much lore that could be "played"

I'll drink to that! I wish that Stoic would make narration by scripted in-battle events easier-to-mod and more elaborate. Have you tried adding any new content on that basis? You know, somewhat like the Vedrfell fight in Chapter 1, or the chasm fights in Chapter 8.


...what i would REALLY like to see, are more stories, more text, more funny dialogues, more Tryggvi, more lore, more icelandic...

Same here, as Ratatoskr would say :) On this front, I think that Stoic might have put an upper limit on the text-size of their game, in order for it to be affordable for translation/localization.

Ratatoskr
12-12-2016, 11:35 AM
Does anyone think that the godstone in the Old Wood looks almost exactly like that weird guy in the village without a name? Just saying...

Aleonymous
12-12-2016, 12:46 PM
Yes, quite close, but I wouldn't call it "exactly"... Godstone Geirraðr (https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bannersaga.gamepedia.com/e/ec/Geirra%C3%B0r.png?version=608b74d7dc68bbdf4885c52a 71989fe5) vs. Mads Mikkelsen (https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/4udxxh/banner_saga_2_mads_mikkelsen/?st=iwmda01g&sh=f88a4231)

hailai
12-17-2016, 09:20 AM
awesome questions that i also have,i hope every choice nad question is tied and answered in chapter 2

Aleonymous
12-18-2016, 05:13 AM
awesome questions that i also have,i hope every choice nad question is tied and answered in chapter 2

Um, the second part of the game is already out. We're now looking forward to the third and final part! :)

Aleonymous
08-18-2017, 09:18 AM
(1) And I still want to know why he filled a whale with yox teeth.

(2) I also can't believe we've seen the last of Ubin yet.

Fell on this post after a few searches. So,
(1) It's "filling a dead yox with whale teeth".
(2) You were right ;)

Ratatoskr
08-18-2017, 09:24 AM
Fell on this post after a few searches. So,
(1) It's "filling a dead yox with whale teeth".
(2) You were right ;)

I was right, wasn't I? Sure glad we made that goal. Though seriously, what is it with me and whales?