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Aleonymous
04-08-2014, 02:24 AM
I believe that most of the achievements of the game are a little too easy to get, thus reducing their worth.

18 of them are "Kill one enemy with that unit"
9 of them are "Visit that Godstone"
12 of them are something actually difficult to accomplish

So, apart from the last category, I'd replace the other categories with something more challenging. This would also help replayability of the game, for some of those OCD fans of the game (like myself).

For the unit-related achievements
They would all require you to use the Rank-3 version of the respective active ability and do something special with it. This might also help new-players actually try to learn the unit abilities... Here's my suggestions:


Hunter: Deal 30+ STR damage to the marked prey, by 3 of your allies
Warden: Spend your last 3WP rallying an ally, while you are at 1STR
Mender: Kill 3 enemies with an arcing spark (or deal 30 STR damage)
Spearmaster: Kill an enemy having him bleed at least 4 STR points
Skystriker: Kill an enemy dealing 15+ STR damage
Eagle Eye: Pierce 5 enemy units killing at least 3 of them
Siege Archer: Kill 3 (or more) units with Slag and Burn explosion
Bowmaster: Kill an enemy dealing 15+ STR damage at a range of 9 tiles
Warhawk: Kill 4 enemies with one swing (or deal 40+ STR damage)
Warmaster: Kill 3 enemies with a single attack (or deal 30+ total STR/ARM damage)
Warleader: Forge-Ahead an ally at least 12 tiles away, while you are at 3STR
Strongarm: Knock an enemy through 3 or more units
Provoker: Malice a 20+ STR enemy, from 3 tiles away, and survive the attack
Shieldmaster: Deal at least 12AB, surviving 3 or more enemy attacks
Raidmaster: Survive a 20+ STR attack, while you are below 5STR
Backbiter: Run through 4 enemies, killing the target one.
Thrasher: Kill a unit dealing 9 STR/ARM damage, while you are below 5STR
Grudgewielder: Kill 3enemies in one fit of Guts, while you are below 5STR


For the Godstone-related achievements
I'd "bind them all" with getting the items from the mini-quests that trigger when you visit the Godstones. For example, getting the "Godscale" (from Marek Godstone) or the "Puzzle Box of the Twin Rivers" (from Dundr Godstone) items...

What do you think?

http://cdn.steamcommunity.com/economy/image/lgt2hjgC27PgcRXHFhzNVy5HvDd8ctXzNL_G3fL6hfBfAEF9YR 6doUCoCTkwfIPdI1KlJCkwl-s_stvF8_mE91IEUj1_Fo6jQfVFPyk2ndppAftwf2TKsWHqmY_k ucGsB1kGJi8Y16AWs19gO2DBnHZSrnd1P82pM-ydi-nvkqwQHV91

John
04-08-2014, 08:43 PM
Those are some good ones. Whenever you are ready, why not post a new thread that contains a Poll so that people can vote for them?

Aleonymous
04-09-2014, 08:00 AM
Sadly, I don't think we could gather more than 10 votes in such a poll, as things are here/now :( So, I am just hoping that discussion here could make you guys consider something like that for the following games.

Besides, I assume that it's gonna be a little troublesome to write/debug the "module" that monitors all battle actions (well, only rank-3 abilities, ok) to identify when any of the above conditions has been met, so as to award the achievement :)

balnoisi
04-09-2014, 09:30 AM
i am all in for more/better achievements, you got my vote.

stoicmom
04-09-2014, 10:31 AM
you got my vote :D

Aleonymous
04-09-2014, 11:11 AM
After the overwhelming support (thanks bal & sm! :D), I've revised the unit-achievements a bit.

Any suggestions about how to improve/balance them?

The main problem seems to be with non-offensive (i.e. "support-natured") actives, e.g. Warden's Rally & Warleader's Forge-Ahead. Raidmaster and Provoker abilities were a little tricky to define, but they seem better (I tried to put together a difficult scenario using a lot of conditions). Finally, Spearmaster's achievement seems a little poor; I thought about using it in-combos with { Battering Ram, Malice, Guts}, but that makes it complicated and ally-dependent...

John
04-09-2014, 02:20 PM
One thing to watch out for, is that the description/condition needs to be simple to write, read, and understand. It seems to me that 'while you are ...' clauses on the achievements are things to avoid.

A cool achievement might be to Malice an enemy onto a Rain of Arrows though.

quartex
04-09-2014, 03:38 PM
This is a good idea Aleo, at the least it's good brain storming for chapter 2. I remember all the wacky achievements people came up with before Banner Saga was released. Obviously many of them would be too complicated to implement.

Aleonymous
04-09-2014, 04:23 PM
It seems to me that 'while you are ...' clauses on the achievements are things to avoid.

Funny; I actually thought that this particular clause was one of the simplest! You know, in something along the lines of:


{ActiveAbilityRank==3} AND {...too complicated clause(s)...} AND {ActingUnitStrength<=5}

I start to believe that most of my suggestions would fall into the "too complicated clause(s)" category! :o


A cool achievement might be to Malice an enemy onto a Rain of Arrows though.

Combos are cool indeed, so that they can be an achievement-category on their own! Malice+RoA and Ram+Impale are the best ones.

Kletian999
04-10-2014, 12:49 AM
I don't think "While you are below 5 Str" is a meaningful criteria for achievements where str doesn't increase power damage, it just adds some arbitrary luck to even attempting it.
Thus I would do:
For Thrasher, you should just say- kill a unit with Rank 3 Flail with 3 ally support damage. Suggested name: Group Therapy.
Grudgewielder- kill 3 units with a single Rank 3 Guts. Suggested Name: Had a Bad Day.

Same argument for the pure supports. Using the power at low STR is not more worthy of praise than in the opening moves:
Suggestions
Warder: Give 6-9 WP to the same ally unit. This unit must finish the battle alive. Suggested Name: Sycophant.
Warleader: Joke idea: Forge ahead your whole team so initiative is normal again (Full Circle). Real idea: Use Forge ahead during Pillage and win with that extra turn (Daylight Savings Time)

The Survive achievement suggestions:
Provoker: Malice a unit that cannot attack you on its afflicted turn. (Neener Neener)
Shieldmaster: Deal at least 12AB from RtF effect in a battle. (Slow Learners)
Raidmaster: Survive a 24+ STR attack. (That's gonna leave a mark)

Other:
Strongarm: Cause 6 points of break/damage from terrain/unit collision (Bad Trip)


I think the rest are on target, but here's some fun names.
Hunter: Deal 30+ STR damage to the marked prey, by 3 of your allies. (Dogpile)
Mender: Kill 3 enemies with an arcing spark (or deal 30 STR damage) (Chain Lightning)
Spearmaster: Kill an enemy having him bleed at least 4 STR points (Red Carpet)
Skystriker: Kill an enemy dealing 15+ STR damage (Fought in the Shade)
Eagle Eye: Pierce 5 enemy units killing at least 3 of them (Kebab)
Siege Archer: Kill 3 (or more) units with Slag and Burn explosion (BBQ)
Bowmaster: Kill an enemy dealing 15+ STR damage at a range of 9 tiles (Surprise!)
Warhawk: Kill 4 enemies with one swing (or deal 40+ STR damage) (Elbow Room)
Warmaster: Kill 3 enemies with a single attack (or deal 30+ total STR/ARM damage) (Bowling Trophy)
Backbiter: Run through 4 enemies, killing the target one. (Line cutter.)

Aleonymous
04-10-2014, 02:54 AM
I don't think "While you are below 5 Str" is a meaningful criteria for achievements where str doesn't increase power damage, it just adds some arbitrary luck to even attempting it.

I suggested those extra clauses just to make the achievements more difficult to get. It's not "arbitrary luck".

Your names were really funny, indeed, although they might not fit in the game's "theme" too well :) Here's my favorites:

Had a Bad Day (Guts)
Bad Trip (Battering Ram)
Red Carpet (Impale)
Slow Learners (Bring the Pain)
Surprise! (Bird of Prey)
Group Therapy (Bloody Flail)
That's gonna leave a mark (Stonewall)

Kletian999
04-10-2014, 11:16 AM
I mean, the STR of your character is ultimately not in your control (Barring being full or shooting yourself in the foot), and I feel the conditions of the achievement should reflect your player skill and not your opponent playing along. Having the extra strength doesn't make the tactical moves easier either. With a Str limit in place, theoretically, the exact same moves would reach the achievement or not based on whether your opponent used his archers on your unit.

I would consider that a "Luck based mission"/"Fake Difficulty" to quote my favorite website.

I figured the achievement names are best when funny, and I can't do humor in Icelandic :D

But I found a better name for Raidmaster (Every Scar is a Story)