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Thread: How skillful must you be to enjoy TBS?

  1. #1
    Junior Member Anurak's Avatar
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    How skillful must you be to enjoy TBS?

    Today I understood something as I was losing my second game. I suck at this game. I think my win/loss count is 22/7 (with 2 loses from disconnects) or close to that, but in each game I make decisions I regret 10 seconds later and somehow I feel I win because my opponents make mistakes instead of my own skill. I guess it is comforting seeing that the opponents do some silly mistakes too, but I am frustrated with my decisions half the time. Does anyone else feel like that?
    The game is amazing though and playing in expert mode will take a long time before someone can claim he has mastered it. I could be wrong though, since I see some players with winning streaks of 40+ and I am thinking I must be really stupid to not be able to get over 5 wins in a row.

  2. #2
    Superbacker piotras's Avatar
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    Many of those with large kill-streaks played the game during the beta, so they have a head-start when it comes to the learning curve

    Like any game, you can learn it, so don't give up! Find me on Steam (piotras) happy to give you some pointers. Also, did you go through all of these?

    https://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthread.php?874
    https://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthr...-Better-Player

    It's hard to say why you find it a bit difficult without seeing what sort of moves you do, but maybe you just haven't got the hang of things specific for this game, it plays differently than other strategic turn-based games. Only because you regret your moves doesn't mean that you're bad at the game, very often you're left with only 'bad' choices and it's hard to tell how things will develop down the line.

    To sum up, go through some of the fan-made tutorials and rethink your build and try to get an idea how you are planning to win games (before you actually hit the versus button). Good luck!

  3. #3
    If you realize your doing something wrong your learning and youll prolly get alot better just remember you can see what the players can and cant do next by clicking on the enemy team, and also pay attention to the order of the turn, and youll be fine.

  4. #4
    Backer Jawbone78's Avatar
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    I really struggled at first - I'd say out of my first ten games I lost nine. But it's started to come together now. I'd estimate I've been winning a little more than half of my games lately (I don't bother checking my stats ), mostly because I've started to figure out what the units are good for.

    My best advice is to pay attention to how your opponent is beating you.

    Also, have a specific goal in mind for each unit on a match level. For example, my shieldmaster is great at standing in the middle and soaking damage, and at cutting through other guys armor. He rarely survives a match, and he rarely picks up a kill, but he always leaves enemies ripe for the kill. I have archers and a warrior whose job is to finish them, and it's been working alright for me.

  5. #5
    Just re-read the OP. You probably realize you're actually quite good, right? A win-loss of 22-7 (or 22-5) is excellent! During beta, I was always around 2-1...and I've never considered myself bad at the game...

    Anyway, once most of your matches are with folks whose elos are above 1200, fewer of your mistakes will go unpunished so you'll be forced to raise your game.

  6. #6
    Junior Member eduran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anurak View Post
    Today I understood something as I was losing my second game. I suck at this game. I think my win/loss count is 22/7 (with 2 loses from disconnects) or close to that, but in each game I make decisions I regret 10 seconds later and somehow I feel I win because my opponents make mistakes instead of my own skill. I guess it is comforting seeing that the opponents do some silly mistakes too, but I am frustrated with my decisions half the time. Does anyone else feel like that?
    The game is amazing though and playing in expert mode will take a long time before someone can claim he has mastered it. I could be wrong though, since I see some players with winning streaks of 40+ and I am thinking I must be really stupid to not be able to get over 5 wins in a row.
    It's kind of the opposite for me. Anytime something works out as planned I feel like a tactical genius. Sure, I have 'why the hell did I just do that, I am so stupid' moments. My guess is anyone has them. But most of the time I feel pretty good about them, too, because I am not going to make this particular mistake again (well, hopefully).
    The only thing I find frustrating is when I lose a game and do not understand why. Altough that has not happend since I started to record my games and do post-game analysis of losses. Recently I began to nit-pick on my wins to find mistakes. Helps a lot in future games and I even get to relive some of the awesome-genius-moments

  7. #7
    Junior Member eAZy's Avatar
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    I always find that people give themselves completely unrealistic goals when playing competitive games, regardless of the game being played. In fpses, a lot of my friends complain that they don't have at least 2.0 kill to death ratios, or over 60% win % in Dota2. I've always found this absolutely ridiculous to complain about. especially when you've just jumped into a new game.

    Do people realize that in order to get those 40 game winstreaks, 40 other people are getting losses? Everytime you up your killstreak in an fps, someone's goes down, and likewise in Dota. Anyone can be on the receiving end of a loss, regardless of how good they are. This is not a game where everyone can be on massive winstreaks, obviously, and this holds true for all competitive games.

    Frankly, I find it quite worrisome that people in this game are so concerned about winning and losing that a single loss in dozens of games causes such a stir. It creates a negative environment for new players when all they hear is how much ELO a top player has won or is in danger of losing, sometimes even causing them to dodge other players in the queue.

    I don't think this is a good example for new players, and personally, I just have fun playing. I've beaten some of the people on the front page of the ladder, and I've also lost to completely new players. 'Twas all in good fun for me.

  8. #8
    Superbacker piotras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eAZy View Post
    Frankly, I find it quite worrisome that people in this game are so concerned about winning and losing that a single loss in dozens of games causes such a stir. It creates a negative environment for new players when all they hear is how much ELO a top player has won or is in danger of losing, sometimes even causing them to dodge other players in the queue.

    I don't think this is a good example for new players, and personally, I just have fun playing. I've beaten some of the people on the front page of the ladder, and I've also lost to completely new players. 'Twas all in good fun for me.
    Aye! Fully agree, rank-whoring is what kills any game for me!

  9. #9
    Backer Slimsy Platypus's Avatar
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    Eazy / Piotras - couldn't agree more with you

    When I first came into the beta I was absolutely obsessed with my Elo ranking. After driving myself crazy for a while, I came to realize that it's more fun to try new things rather than feel inhibited that a change to your roster might negatively effect your Elo. I understand that for some people the game is completely about being able to flex your electronic muscles so everyone can see how awesome you are (and that's fine). But I do think that we could evolve the design with some simple changes to help give players that know they are never going to be in the top 20 something to continue to fight for.

    With that being said, historically gaming systems that made me feel like I have had control of something very large have been epic, even when I have only been able to control a small aspect (for example Suikoden, X-COMM). Humor this idea I have for factions: Now we know various Factions are fighting for control of Strand - and certainly these Factions are composed of more than 6 members. It would be cool if our effective role was to donate experienced troops "to the cause" that would fight for our faction when we wern't logged in. Off-line fighting doesn't have to mean anything, simply that being the lore. Achievements, character skins, or things to put on your Banner (which will be coming when the Weaver's Hut gets rolled out) could be the rewards for various benchmarks of troop donations. That way, even if you lose every match, players can get a sense that they are progressing their Faction!

    Simply an idea. Obviously we have to keep in mind that Factions was originally planned to be something very simple that basicaly was a simple way to present the Saga's combat to the public (at least this is my understanding). However, its been received quite well (in my opinion) and I think Factions stands quite well on its own!
    Last edited by Slimsy Platypus; 03-03-2013 at 02:59 PM.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Anurak's Avatar
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    @eAZy: My frustration had me as the only target and not the game or the other players, because more than once I found myself blocked by my own characters. The game is more tactical than I thought at first and there are so many things to check before even moving a character. Will enemy #1 reach me next turn? Which enemy will activate before my Warrior? Should I reduce the armor of the warrior or go for his strength? Add to all that the activation order and you have so many possibilities you can feel the weight of every decision like you are a general in a real battlefield.

    I was never one to care about ELO or ranking, but I checked the stats today because I suddenly started playing against several more experienced players. I don't know if I won against a high ranked player, but my ranking was higher than I expected it to be. I was ranked close to 500 (ELO), while all the other rankings (wins, win/loss ratio, ...) were close to 1500 or even 2000. Maybe after some loses I will be matched with opponents with similar experience and performance. I do agree however that making your plan work win and winning against an opponent who was obviously more experienced feels extremely good.

    What's great about the game is that the result of the match is based on skill and not luck. The games I lost were lost because I made mistakes (usually more than one) or because the opponent had superior planing skills. The game is so fun and the only problem I have so far is the fact I have to reinstall it after playing once.

    What I am still trying to decide is whether it is best to throw the warrior in the battle as soon as possible for 1-2 quick crippling attacks, or keep him back until the enemies are low on strength. Also, do I place him near the center of the formation or at the sides so that he can move more freely and be targeted by less attacks? Any tips on this subject from your experience?
    Last edited by Anurak; 03-03-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  11. #11
    Definitely agree with Piotras and eAZy. Honestly, back when I was in the top 10 (for that brief moment when I was on break but my son not yet born), I found the game not to be quite as fun as it is now, when I'm unlikely to crack the top 20 in any category. Every game was full of anxiety, since my win-streak and ELO were constantly imperiled. Nowadays, I win much more often than I lose (the advantage of early beta training), but I also don't stress out about the thing as much. It is, quite simply, FUN. (Even though every loss is itself a chance to see what my opponent did right, how I can counter them, or how I can adopt their tactics.)

    I know this jars with the attitudes of certain forms of competitive gameplay, where the tension of risking one's self-worth on every game adds to the experience, but it's been a much more healthy way of approaching the game. Heck, even when I lost two or more games per game I won, I loved the sense of progress and developing strategy. As Dwarf Fortress reminds us, losing is fun!

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