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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: The Strategy of Ultimate Win

  1. #21
    I haven't played this game for long, but isn't this setup what people call "melee spam"? An old and generally cheap tactic?

    Speaking of protecting archers against melee-heavy build - I totally agree, while you can afford losing them against a mixed build, puncture is the only thing that keeps you afloat in the mid-late game when fighting a melee crowd. This seems a bit unbalanced, because it is much harder to set up a powerful puncture than just, say, run up with a thrasher and chop someone's face off.

  2. #22
    Superbacker DThrasher's Avatar
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    This build, and the variants Alex mentioned, are absolutely brutal to play against. I'm still struggling to find a strategy that counters it if I'm playing with a balanced team. I'd love to hear some ideas for counters!

    Especially having been trounced by the Canadian horde myself.

  3. #23
    It's very difficult to handle. Ideally you'd like to go after the 'Hawks, but they are maxed out on armor and life, and put in a tactical position lurking on the wings that's difficult to engage. Thrashers are a nightmare too, because even when they are low health, they are still useful with their ability, so maiming isn't as effective as it might normally be.


    The most trouble I have are against skilled players that are very good with max armor seige archers. 10 armor makes them much more difficult for thrashers burn down, and their skill and 2 armor crack means they can really wear you down as you come in on them.

  4. #24
    Junior Member kovyrus's Avatar
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    4 raiders and 2 warriors is overpowered build imho. But there is way to counter: 4 archers in the corner covered by 2 shield varls:
    AASS
    AASS
    SS
    SS
    Imho it is absolutely broken part of game that archers can stand in the corner untouchable. When I played against this build I just skipped turns because attacking this formation is suicide. But my opponent skipped turns too. Imho game should be designed in a such way that there is no such situations.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kovyrus View Post
    4 raiders and 2 warriors is overpowered build imho. But there is way to counter: 4 archers in the corner covered by 2 shield varls:
    AASS
    AASS
    SS
    SS
    Imho it is absolutely broken part of game that archers can stand in the corner untouchable. When I played against this build I just skipped turns because attacking this formation is suicide. But my opponent skipped turns too. Imho game should be designed in a such way that there is no such situations.
    Well, if you have archers yourself, you can harass the shieldbangers without going into enemy archer range. Or spam the whole thing with Siege Archer.

    Doesn't change the fact that a build should not be only counterable by a specific anti-build.

  6. #26
    lol 4 archers 2 shield would be useless against any other build though, so it's a moot point.


    One thing I see a lot of people do against me with this build is turtle and wait for me to engage. This is a really bad Idea. It concedes to me when and how the engagement is going to happen, allows me to circle and position myself perfectly, and allows me to control the center of the map with my Hawks. Basically, turltling is just hoping I make a mistake in how I engage.

    I'm not sure what the correct strat is against the build,but I know sitting back and waiting for me to perfectly position myself isn't it.


    And this build is absolutely broken. I'm now 19th on the ladder, and there's just no way I'm the 19th best player of this game.

  7. #27
    Senior Member sweetjer's Avatar
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    Yeah OMB you are spot on. People tend to hang back in fear from your type of build. As you saw, the solution (imo anyway) is to rush in, 1st hit, set up smart blocking, and field an SS! Worked when we played last time anyways also, I like your 12 str thrasher staggered set up...at first I was scared, it looked like you were just gonna steam roll over me and prevent my WM from Sundering the whole time.
    Last edited by sweetjer; 03-09-2013 at 04:06 PM.
    that which does not kill you often leaves you handicapped

  8. #28
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galactimus View Post
    I have never once purchased or used any of the following classes:

    -Backbiter
    -Raidmaster

    -Warleader

    -Provoker
    -Shieldmaster
    -Strongarm

    -Skystriker
    -Bowmaster
    -Siege Archer
    Hi.

    I don't mean to sound harsh here (and you are obviously much better at the game than me), but isn't it a bit dull to never experiment with different builds and classes?

    You have played a lot of matches and I assume they mostly develop in the same kind of way...

    Is it that you don't want to risk breaking your immense win streak? or do you just enjoy winning more than varied gameplay (in a min/max sort of way)?

    Anyway, I apologise if you are offended by this - I do appreciate you sharing your tactics with us

  9. #29
    Junior Member Galactimus's Avatar
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    No worries loveboof!

    I never played the beta so my first 50 matches were purely experimental. I found out quickly that I didn't like Archers, I loved Warriors, and I preferred to maim everything in existence. Thus I decided to field Warmasters and Thrashers. "Maiming my enemy while fielding units that have no problem being maimed." This huge advantage in the turn order is how I beat players of higher skill while I was still learning the mechanics of the game.

    I didn't care for the leaderboards at all until I found out I had a 40 game win streak. It was just a very aggressive build that I had a lot of fun playing. But most of all I'm a HUGE fan of the color scheme. If every unit type had a red color option available I'd probably be more open to experimenting with other units. *hint hint TBS marketing*

  10. #30
    Red thrashers for life bro!

    Gogo red team!

  11. #31

    Evolving out of melee

    Hey! I ran a very similar setup when I got my streak (I think I'm still around there with a 51 streak as well ^_^ ). I was mostly using 3 Backbiters, a Skystriker and 2 Warmasters, but I ran a lot of different combinations in order to level up more units and get to a point where I could build just about level 1 combination. I suppose in this way I'm very different from Galactimus because I have 1-2 of every level 1 unit in the game, and I wasn't trying most of them out only because the melee build was proving to be so successful. I'm not that good at the game either, I just basically had the luck to have most of my games when people were learning about the game and grinding renown in order to customize their armies.

    Going back to the topic, it seems a lot of people are opting to go for melee heavy armies, which makes sense given that it's a solid build that is easy to play. I'm really looking forward to seeing people use other units effectively, especially the Warleader, which I think has the potential to make other combinations stand up to an all melee army if you're smart enough (I haven't been able to, at least yet!). Hopefully more people will try out new and cool combinations soon =)

    Going to try and get another shieldmaster to level 1 now, hard to get the kills with him playing as underdog =(

  12. #32
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galactimus View Post
    No worries loveboof!

    I never played the beta so my first 50 matches were purely experimental. I found out quickly that I didn't like Archers, I loved Warriors, and I preferred to maim everything in existence. Thus I decided to field Warmasters and Thrashers. "Maiming my enemy while fielding units that have no problem being maimed." This huge advantage in the turn order is how I beat players of higher skill while I was still learning the mechanics of the game.

    I didn't care for the leaderboards at all until I found out I had a 40 game win streak. It was just a very aggressive build that I had a lot of fun playing. But most of all I'm a HUGE fan of the color scheme. If every unit type had a red color option available I'd probably be more open to experimenting with other units. *hint hint TBS marketing*
    Well fair enough! Thanks for explaining

  13. #33
    Holy crap that's a horrible build to play against. This is the first game that I've truly not enjoyed, and I've played my share of games where I killed 1-2 units. (Of course, if I recall correctly my opponent never did less than 3 STR damage in many, many bloody flails, so it could be I got slightly unlucky.)

    Of course, this is to say nothing against Canada or Galactimus. Fun is subjective. But MAN am I glad this is being nerfed through unit caps. I've played against 4 backbiters, and got beat, but it is not the same thing at all. The difference is that maiming backbiters actually decreases their effectiveness. Maiming thrashers only creates a short pause before the Warhawks start killing people, at which point the thrashers become 3 str per turn destroy-everything machines.

    tl;dr: [insert expletive of choice here]!

  14. #34
    Hey RobertTheScott,

    Can you give any insight on your tactical "Do's and Don'ts?"

    I just took apart a player who was using this set-up pretty handily and I'm not sure if I see the tactical strengths being exploited (or maybe not exploited, in this case). It's not just the red-theme, I hope?

    I actually tossed him some units to kill at the end so he could at least get some kills on his last Warhawk and some extra renown.

    I only win about half of my games, so it's not like I'm a great player.
    Last edited by Kazthefirst; 03-13-2013 at 07:06 AM.

  15. #35
    Member SeraphimLoki's Avatar
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    I just got in a fight with that guy using that "tactic". I had it all controlled. I was left with 3 archers full health and a raidmaster 8s/9h he just had a warmaster 5shield/16hp and one trasher 11/12. The warmaster died qucikly (doing minor dmg before( but trasher killed everyone in my team. Something gotto be done about it.
    @RobertTheScott
    Same here i didnt enjoy it at all, i got him blocked all the time and shoot with my archers. He just stood there and bleed my shieldmaster then i didnt even had a chance to run.
    Last edited by SeraphimLoki; 03-14-2013 at 12:23 PM.

  16. #36
    Superbacker trisenk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeraphimLoki View Post
    I just got in a fight with that guy using that "tactic". I had it all controlled. I was left with 3 archers full health and a raidmaster 8s/9h he just had a warmaster 5shield/16hp and one trasher 11/12. The warmaster died qucikly (doing minor dmg before( but trasher killed everyone in my team. Something gotto be done about it.
    This obviously has nothing to do with with the topic (4xTS/BB 2WM/WH), since your problems started at 1xWM 1xTS. You've just played the endgame badly and/or had bad stat distribution on archers.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazthefirst View Post
    Hey RobertTheScott,

    Can you give any insight on your tactical "Do's and Don'ts?"
    I suppose, based on the forums here, that my team may simply have a massive weakness against thrashers.

    I tend to run a balanced build centered around (of all things) a pair of raidmasters. They go up the center, being unhurtable and challenging the opponent. Then I have a strongarm to break up enemy formations, a backbiter (or at least I did have--and sticking with it for now) to take out high value targets (i.e. archers), and a warhawk for mopup. Filling out the group is a bowmaster, who takes advantage of the fact that my team is rather good at destroying armor.

    My last two games against the thrasher build had very different (and equally disastrous)tactics. First I kept up my formation, maimed the thrashers--and then started killing them as their 3 damage flails got very annoying very fast. I left the last thrasher alive at little health and no exertion, but when the warhawks moved in on my maimed team...he had plenty of exertion to blow on my archer and other units.

    The second game felt like it was against a less skilled player. His warhawks were far less protected--near the front lines, in fact!--and I managed to quickly maim one and shortly thereafter maim the other. To do so I had to let his axemen get hits on my own warhawk (since I couldn't play my normal formation-based game but had to rush his powerhouses), and eventually a 2 health thrasher maimed my full health full armor archer.

    In both these games, there was never a point where I felt like I was winning or had the momentum.

  18. #38
    Backer Zahar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kovyrus View Post
    4 raiders and 2 warriors is overpowered build imho. But there is way to counter: 4 archers in the corner covered by 2 shield varls:
    AASS
    AASS
    SS
    SS
    Imho it is absolutely broken part of game that archers can stand in the corner untouchable. When I played against this build I just skipped turns because attacking this formation is suicide. But my opponent skipped turns too. Imho game should be designed in a such way that there is no such situations.
    Use some raidmasters and 2 WM or WHs.

    Yeah, counters.
    Alea Jacta Est

    Banner by StandSure - thanks a lot!

  19. #39
    In that case, you could rather easily avoid to place units in the archers range, while attacking the shieldbangers with your own archers from a safe distance. Though it is a really fun-killing strategy.

  20. #40
    I think there's real potential with SS to control WHs

    I was playing against a 2WH, 3TH ,SA team with my 2WH, TH, BB, SA, SS team, and i really wash't sweating at all. The SS controlled one of the WH's movement so i can send in one of my WH earlier to deal his THs and maim his other WH. But I made a major mistake when i wanted to take off 5 armor on his un-maimed WH with my 3 exertion SA, but i press the wrong thing and did a normal 2Arm(noooooo!!), and that ultimately cost me the game.

    I am generally good with my trap placements to keep enemies guessing. The best case is forcing enemy THs to block their own WHs. With the 1 trap is a bit of gamble at times, but rank2 will be even more effective at controlling the field (multiple enemy units). But another thing is sometimes it's hard to work out where to trap in 30s let alone 2 traps (more panicky mistakes?), but is gonna be fun!

    Anyways, anyone having success with their SS?

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