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Thread: New unit ideas...

  1. #21
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Merging this with the new unit idea thread.

  2. #22
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    @ Ocean22692,

    Interesting idea! I'm sure I read somewhere that the devs actually had more plans for the Horn at some stage...

  3. #23
    Member Tatski's Avatar
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    Sadly all raider slots are taken, had an idea for a skill inspired from HoMM III Harpy for a Raider (for those who are unfamiliar with harpy in HoMM3, they return to the last tile they're on after attacking) Perhaps get extra damage/never miss bonus or +1 armor to self and adjacent unit on top of stonewall, till the next turn when he returns. This would be a subtle but interesting skill, gives you options for attacking while retaining a shield wall to an adjacent unit.
    Last edited by Tatski; 05-13-2013 at 06:14 AM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member roder's Avatar
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    Mysterious fighters recruited from beyond the corners of the realm, some wielding foreign techniques and mystical strength.

    Base Class: Mercenary
    Passive: Gains +1 extra wp on horn when your mercenary kills a unit. But gives enemy +1 horn wp when your mercenary is killed.

    Wanderer

    Desc: Wields pike
    Ability (Piercing Thrust): Attacks 2 tiles in front of it, if the attack on first tile misses, then second attack also misses.

    Scout

    Desc: Wields crossbow, has 3 tile attack range (attack requires direct line of sight)
    Ability (Poison tip): Attacks target with poisoned arrow, deals -1 hp for the next three turns.

    Heretic

    Desc: Has no basic attack, only uses ability.
    Ability (Focus): When used on enemy, marks target for -4 armor until Heretic's next turn. (unless heretic hit out of focus)
    When used on ally, marks target for +2armor/+2str until Heretic's next turn. (unless hit out of focus)

    Savage
    Desc: Wields whip in one hand, halberd in the other. Is able to attack at full str in melee range or half strength from 2 tiles away.
    Ability (Martyr): Falls on his own "sword", kills himself but gives owner +2 wp on horn and denies enemy the kill.
    Last edited by roder; 05-13-2013 at 07:52 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodereve View Post
    Heretic
    Desc: Has no basic attack, only uses ability.
    Ability (Focus): When used on enemy, marks target for -4 armor until Heretic's next turn. (unless heretic hit out of focus)
    When used on ally, marks target for +2armor/+2str until Heretic's next turn. (unless hit out of focus)

    Savage
    Desc: Wields whip in one hand, halberd in the other. Is able to attack at full str in melee range or half strength from 2 tiles away.
    Ability (Martyr): Falls on his own "sword", kills himself but gives owner +2 wp on horn and denies enemy the kill.
    Some interesting ideas there!

    The Heretic would definitely make for some new tactics - but when he's out of willpower what would he do? And I really like the idea of the Martyr (more than the Savage), but of course his ability would only work once!

    Maybe combine the Heretic and Martyr into one unit so he can kill himself when he is out of WP? lol

  6. #26
    Here are some suggestions
    Varl-Like Unit:
    "Furious"
    This is somewhat similar to the Shieldmaster's "Bring the Pain" but his active ability revolves around returning small bits of damage should he have higher hp/str than his adjacent unit when that unit attacks him.
    Archer unit:
    "Cut Throat"
    This unit works like an archer. However, her range is reduced to 3 range, but is compensated with her active ability to dish out 2 knives for double damage towards a particular stat. Note that her armor break is the maximum of 1.
    Rank 1: Regular Armor Break + 1 Direct Strength Attack (So it would be like a total of 2 Armor Break, and each knife counts as 1 damage so the total would equal to 2 strength damage)
    Rank 2: Regular Armor Break + 2 Direct Strength Attack (AB total: 2, Strength: 4)
    Rank 3: Regular Armor Break + 3 Direct Strength Attack (AB total: 2, Strength: 6)

    Another idea that I haven't seen posted yet is a cavalry unit. Basically a unit where a person rides a horse. This can be used like a vertical 2 box unit.
    Last edited by Nova Kaiser; 05-21-2013 at 12:49 AM.

  7. #27
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Hello Nova Kaiser! Interesting ideas. I liked the ranged-attacker one. Units like those will add a lot of diversity and new play-styles, but are surely kind-of tricky to balance-in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Kaiser View Post
    Another idea that I haven't seen posted yet is a cavalry unit. Basically a unit where a person rides a horse. This can be used like a vertical 2 box unit.
    Stoic have mentioned that there will be Centaur-like units introduced in Factions, but most likely after the release of the Saga#1. Such a big&powerful unit would need counter-balancing too!

  8. #28
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    The upcoming Berserker varl class and Hunter human class may well resemble those.
    Being shown with both an axe and a bow, it's pretty clear the hunter will be middle ground between melee and ranged - maybe a 1-3 range ?
    One of the actives of the Berserker ought to be a "Furious Charge", which attacks a target directly in front and pushes them back some square while following them and doing follow-up damage. Units behind the attacked unit would also be pushed and receive damage. I'm very much looking forward to that ^^

    Also, regarding Centaurs, I believe they are planned for the quite distant future - I seem to recall talk of Ep. 3 .
    EDIT : it was ep 2, actually. (source)

    Oh and thanks for reviving this thread, my mind's going on and on about new units now (and grieving again the delay of the Champion, Eagle Eye, Grudgewielder and Wardog )
    Last edited by Butters; 05-21-2013 at 02:48 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    Great, now I'm back to baseless speculation on the coming units...
    There have been a few threads about this already, but I'll throw this together anyway hecause I have nothing better to do with my time.
    (..who said "Work!" ? )
    This is based on what we currently know, which Slimsy already summarized very well here. I'll add my own speculation to it : nothing in there is official information at all, may not reflect the final quality of the product, your mileage may vary, yadda yadda you know the drill.
    Some of the images are extracted from a very low-res image that was given during the beta, so will not look any better here, sorry.

    Upcoming advanced classes :


    Grudgewielder
    Base class : Raider
    Initials : GW
    Active may be one of the following, based on naming :
    1. Makes a str attack with a bonus of +1 for each 2? armor damage the GW has received (aka "reverse puncture")
    2. Makes a str attack with a bonus of +2? for each fallen ally unit
    3. activated ability : when activated, each time the GW is dealt damage, he receives a bonus of +2? to str, which lasts until the GW's next attack. (I think I like this one best)


    Eagle Eye
    Base class : Archer
    Initials : EE
    Active may be one of the following :
    1. piercing longshot : cannot be used after moving. Hits the first target in a straight line (4 possible directions) with no range limit, for a full strength shot of 1 min dmg. Further ranks also hit the second and third target on that line and provide a str bonus on the first target.
    2. crippling shot : targets a weak spot, temporarily limiting the target's movement range while doing 1 str dmg. Please don't call it "arrow to the knee".


    Champion (previously known and "Shield Wall")
    Base Class : Shieldbanger
    Initials : CH
    Active may be one of the following :
    1. Giant Shield : while activated, provides +2/+3/+4 armor to all adjacent allies.
    2. Bodyguard : targets an adjacent ally. While active, that ally has the same armor value as the CH.
    3. Protector : targets an adjacent ally. While active, all melee attacks against that unit are redirected to the CH instead (even if the attacker is not adjacent).



    Wardog
    Base Class : Warrior
    Initials : WD
    The Wardog was planned to be the highest str unit of the game, which might put him at 18 max str !?
    Active : I have no idea...

    Upcoming new base classes
    We know that 5 new base classes will be coming with Saga, 4 of which are more or less confirmed. Assuming 4 advanced classes each, that's 20 advanced classes, bringing the total to a whopping 36 !! Even at 3, that's still 15/31 ! I can't imagine what Factions will look like with all that ^^;


    Berserker
    Initials : BK
    The third Varl class, wielding a weapon in each hand and no armor. They ought to be pretty aggressive ! Their max armor should be quite low.
    Passive :
    1. Impervious to Pain : all str damage received is naturally reduced by 1 (that would be extreme and would only work if he had very low natural armor and not too high str either)
    Advanced classes may include :
    1. Frenetic : his active, "Furious Charge", makes him advance 2/3/4 squares directly in front of him and attack/push back everything in his path, while following them and doing follow-up damage. It would be like a combination of bloody flail and push. Units behind the attacked unit would also be pushed and receive damage.
    2. Deathwisher : he can't wait to enter Valhalla and has no regard for his own life. His active will be a very powerful attack but he will hurt himself in the process.



    Mender
    Initials : MD
    They "weave the fabric of reality". We have seen art for male and female menders, but I believe it is of the SP and Menders will be one single base class. You can expect them to be squishy and be no good at melee ; they should be providing control, support, and maybe strong ranged attacks. I guess they will have a simple melee attack, which should be used only in desperate situations.
    Passive :
    1. Flowing Energies : resting gains her 2 wp instead of 1.
    2. Divine protection : each remaining wp point gives +1 armor (assuming the base total is low)
    Advanced classes may include :
    1. Priestess of Thunder : will call a very powerful attack (lightning ? Maybe as seen in the KS trailer ?) on a single tile, which will hit at the beginning of her next turn. John has been saying he's a big fan of the Dragoon from FFT and talked about the mender having such an ability.
    2. Enchantress : will provide a temporary buff to a single ally, maybe adding her own strength to that ally's.
    3. Conjurer : will create temporary obstacles, making one or more tiles unwalkable until her next turn.


    Spearman
    Initials : SP
    Pretty straightforward name. One of the key characters is shown in art with a spear ; it remains to be seen if she does belong to that class. I guess range 2 is a given, but I doubt it will be available as a passive - that seems a bit much. I assume he will have low armor break.
    Passive :
    1. Formation : the offensive alternative to shieldwall - he receives +1 str for each adjacent ally. (which could be a problem - does he die if he walks away from his buddies after being maimed ? or does he die with 1-2 health when in formation ? That sounds difficult to implement actually)
    Advanced classes may include :
    1. Longspear : ability to attack at range 2 over an ally or enemy unit.
    2. Halberd : ability to attack 2 units in a line simultaneously (more damage on the first in line)
    3. Pike : reactive ability. when active, all units walking into an adjacent square will receive an attack instantly (that includes melee units coming to hit him)


    Hunter
    Initials : HU
    By the looks of it, a melee/ranged hybrid ! Should be the class of Rook, one of the main characters of Ep1, if I get this right. I suppose they will have a range 1-4? attack, using either weapon depending on range. Very flexible unit, therefore probably not having very strong stats. Lacks the archer's puncture for high damage at range. There should be some form of advantage to attacking with the axe because without puncture taking one step back to shoot works just as well. (maybe a permanent +1 damage at range 1?)
    Passive :
    1. Skirmish : the hunter gets to move 1 tile after attacking.
    Advanced classes may include :
    1. Harasser : improves Skirmish - can use wp to move further after attacking.
    2. Quickshot : can use his ability to fire a second shot instead of moving after attacking (reduced damage? this assumes passive is Skirmish)
    3. Poacher : active is "crippling shot", which I described earlier as a possibility for the Eagle Eye -targets a weak spot, temporarily limiting the target's movement range while doing 1 str dmg.

    Mystery 5th base class !
    What else can it be ? I have used up most of my ideas already...
    There was an idea thrown around of a Beastmaster, which sounded really cool.
    Or maybe I'm wrong and male and female menders are different base classes (Menders and Priestesses or something ?).
    Last edited by Butters; 05-21-2013 at 05:39 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Tantalising bits of info/speculation there Butters...

    I've had a little break recently, but the prospect of some new units always gets my attention

  11. #31
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Very interesting (re)-wrap-up Butters. Thanks for the inspiration and the "drooling" you've caused me!

    ...Please don't call it "arrow to the knee"...
    The Eagle eye used to be an adventurer, you know...

    The Wardog has a really cool "Tony Iommi" thing going. Methinks I'll like him!

    I really can't imagine how are they gonna try to balance all those classes together! For a single-player game, it's OK; anything goes versus the PC... But on the multi-player game, it's surely gonna be a pain!
    Last edited by Aleonymous; 05-22-2013 at 05:08 PM.

  12. #32
    Junior Member Esth's Avatar
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    As I was writing this i came to the conclusion that the phrase "attack damage" should replace our current convention of "strength damage" when referencing the strength of the attacking unit for reasons I think are obvious.

    Marauder (base class)
    This guy is a lot like a raider; 4 move, similar stats. It lacks the raider armor bonus and visually lacks the shield, a bit rougher looking.
    Spoils: Gains +1 strength whenever it kills a unit.

    (advanced classes)

    1.
    Charges in a line towards target unit up to 2/3/4 tiles away. Stops in front of the first unit in its path dealing break damage to that unit.

    2.
    Throws an axe up to 3 tiles dealing 1 armor/1 strength at level 1, 2 armor/1 strength at level 2, 2 armor/2 strength at level 3 damage.

    3. Bandit Lord
    Inspires aggression in target unit within 3 tiles. For the turn, gains +1 movement at level 1, +1 movement/+1 armor at level 2, +1 movement/+1 armor/+1 strength at level 3; and if it kills, the Bandit Lord receives the benefit of Spoils.

    4.
    Axe Grab: Reaches out with its axe, pulling in the first unit in a line up to 2/3/4 tiles away and dealing attack damage.
    Last edited by Esth; 05-23-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    Hi Esth, welcome to the forums
    Some really cool ideas in there, thanks for that !

    I think another base class that is similar in basic gameplay elements (movement, stats and attack pattern) to an existing one (raider) is a tad underwhelming, but then again, how different can you get with all the other planned units ? Having 3 base classes of melee-only humans (with raider and spearman) does not seem unreasonable. And I too would like to have a "wildcard" type of character in the game ; the shady, scrubby-looking, dangerously devious type would certainly be an interesting addition (think Floki in the Vikings TV series).
    I like that passive. It is implementable without much of a problem and seems balanced enough (a tad weak, if anything).
    The axe throwing thing is definitely something I would enjoy seeing. But guaranteed 2/2 for 2 and 3/3 for 3 seem awfully OP.
    The grab thing is pretty cool too - can't help but picture Scorpio's "Get over here !" to go with that ^^ Esp. since it seems weird to reach 2-3 tiles with an axe, a chain or whip seems more appropriate. I think I'd rather see it not capable to reach through obstructions but systematically bring the target all the way in front. Maybe do 1 armor damage while pulling and then do a normal attack when the target is in range. That could be devastating combined with RoA ! * Enough to make the combo way OP, possibly. Regardless of specifics, I think more abilities allowing to directly control enemy positioning is a great idea - good stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esth View Post
    the phrase "attack damage" should replace our current convention of "strength damage" when referencing the strength of the attacking unit for reasons I think are obvious.
    Fair point, but I can't think of an example where that would have been confusing as it is.

    * thinking about all the possible synergies with possibly 30+ advanced classes makes me feel dizzy ! Dat balancing work (o.0)
    Last edited by Butters; 05-23-2013 at 11:30 AM.

  14. #34
    Junior Member Esth's Avatar
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    yes i was just thinking that the axe throw needs to be in a straight line like the others and not go through obstuctions (though even then...hmm), actually that would tie them all together with an opportunistic, "catch you out of formation" theme. also i forgot to put a range restiction on the bandit lord like the warleader has. will edit this in.

  15. #35
    hey esth, you've come up an interesting idea that made me think of an unique active ability for your base class.
    I do not have a name, but here's the description:
    Temporary strength buff attack depending on how many squares the unit moves
    Rank 1: Movement=strength damage
    Rank 2: Movement=strength damage +1
    Rank 3: Movement=strength damage +2

  16. #36
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    The number of different new ideas for special abilities and units is astounding! With all this brainstorming, Stoic will surely have a easier time "choosing" an ability mentioned here, than actually trying to figure out a "new" unmentioned one...

    PS - About 1,5 month ago I made my own unit-suggestions post at Bertez's thread.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    Looking back that thread, I realize both the longshot and furious charge ideas were originally Bertez's. I kinda appropriated them here, apologies and credit where it's due.

  18. #38
    Junior Member Esth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Kaiser View Post
    hey esth, you've come up an interesting idea that made me think of an unique active ability for your base class.
    I do not have a name, but here's the description:
    Temporary strength buff attack depending on how many squares the unit moves
    Rank 1: Movement=strength damage
    Rank 2: Movement=strength damage +1
    Rank 3: Movement=strength damage +2
    The thing about that ability is that it encourages the sort of moving in circles (or in this case walking back and forth) that you find in many turn-based games that have facing and I think many people find that undesirable. Could work if it counted distaance between initial and final square though.

  19. #39
    Junior Member Esth's Avatar
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    ok, this is an ability I really want on some unit:
    Cripple - Deals attack damage and target unit takes one strength damage for each tile it moves this turn.

  20. #40
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Oh!!! I like that idea o_o

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