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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Why nerf Backbiters?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazthefirst View Post
    First, full armor on archers is 9 or 10. This means that the current ten Strength BB can do exactly 2-3 damage to a full armor archer who has not taken any armor break if they use Run Through and 4-5 if they blow three Willpower and have the stat for that. That's not archer-killer territory by a long shot.

    It's like archer-pesterer. Maybe archer-botherer. Archer-annoyer.

    Second, is there a need for a "kills weakened units" role? Keeping weakened units on the enemy team helps fill their turns with weakened units. Even if there was, isn't the Warhawk or Thrasher better at it? Heck, aren't weakened units the ones that are easy to kill by literally everyone?
    How do you get 9 or 10? You talking about rank 3 or post shield all buffs? From my experience Ive seen 6-8 being the common builds with hp being 7+. Again, the stated flavor text of the unit is that he hunts archers and weakened units. That doesnt mean he should be able to blitz them regardless of their set up/positioning. If they have positioned to make it harder to fully cripple thats a good placement on their part. Its up to you to beat it and not a simple point and click, relying on your units to win the game for you. Which honestly is what it sounds like you want.

    IF they are shield walling it up and stick the archers right up with the raiders use a warrior class to punish the clump first or instead of expecting the niter to one shot the back line be happy you just got a double break.
    Last edited by Gramalian; 03-17-2013 at 11:37 AM.

  2. #62
    Alright. I'm going to argue in favor of the nerf.

    1. Yes, archers can get nine or ten armor. But that requires sacrificing exertion 3, armor break 2, or lowering strength, because willpower has a high minimum on archers. My archers sit at 8/7 and 7/8. Both have the maximum strength for their advanced class. a str 10 backbiter would take either of them down to 3 str, in one turn, for the cost of one willpower.

    2. It's not a question of "do I deal extra strength damage, or armor damage?" it's a question of "do I spend a point of willpower dealing one extra damage, or do I change position and spend a point of willpower to deal two armor damage and then attack the target's now-lowered armor value?". If this isn't extra damage, it's extra accuracy, at which point you might've wanted to just spend that willpower on an extra point of armor damage.

    3. I recently added a Backbiter to my team. Since I don't play double Raidmasters, so I found this guy far more useful than the one he replaced. I also get roughly the same amount of mileage in one willpower as my Thrasher does in three, so I can afford to take points from Willpower and Exertion and pour them into armor, which makes him even tougher. Nerf doesn't matter, he's not a killing unit, he's a wounding unit. A guy who takes out some armor while still reducing the threat level of an enemy.

    So, all in all, the backbiter is still strong. I don't even have anything to compare him to, because I never ran backbiter before the nerf, but it's not "welp, everybody use Thrashers".

  3. #63
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Gramalian View Post
    How do you get 9 or 10? You talking about rank 3 or post shield all buffs? From my experience Ive seen 6-8 being the common builds with hp being 7+.
    A Rank 3 Bowmaster can have max Armor (9), max Strength (8), max Exertion (3), and max Armor Break (2). The other two can have two less points than max on all of those things at Rank 1, but could max at Rank 3.

    If the devs are going to nerf BBs based on the Rank 3 BB power that hasn't dropped yet, they need to do so with the assumption that Rank 3 archers are going to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gramalian View Post
    Again, the stated flavor text of the unit is that he hunts archers and weakened units. That doesnt mean he should be able to blitz them regardless of their set up/positioning. If they have positioned to make it harder to fully cripple thats a good placement on their part. Its up to you to beat it and not a simple point and click, relying on your units to win the game for you. Which honestly is what it sounds like you want.
    Yes, I want the unit to be able to do the thing that it's designed to do at least as well as other units. That's balance.

    The BB used to be able to function in it's role better than units designed for other roles, but now the Thrasher is a better Archer-killer by a wide margin, and the Warhawk is a better killer of weak units. Frankly, the Warhawk was always a better killer of weak units.

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