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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: The Banner Saga: Factions (Most Obvious Problems/mistakes)

  1. #21
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    It's a tough balance to strike. Remember that the price also has to be commensurate to the time investment for non-money players otherwise the price-time differential will,

    1. Encourage people to think the game is a grind (cos you can buy a lot of equivalent game time for cheap)
    2. Cause non-money players to feel gimped/disadvantaged by the pay factor, because their time is worth comparatively little.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Chopsticks View Post
    Even paying $20 will only get you a single rank 2 team. That's kind of unreasonable.
    well, thats the business model of FTP. LOTS of ways to spend LOTS of money and still not have ownership of the entire game. but at least TBS is not a ptw game. personally, i hate the FTP business models. I would much rather spend money up front for the entire package rather than all this 'nickeled and dimed' bullsheeit. all of these 'deals' like 24 hour renown boosts and that kind of stuff reminds me of a used car salesman and makes the game feel somewhat cheap. even the graphics used to promote these deals looks like something i see on local commercials for used furniture stores.

    don't get me wrong, I really enjoy playing TBS, and have logged more than 40 hours of gameplay in just 1 week. I've had many late nights thinking, 'just one more battle!' lol. but the entire FTP aspect of TBS is a real turn off to me.

  3. #23
    Backer KRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterblaster View Post
    I would much rather spend money up front for the entire package rather than all this 'nickeled and dimed' bullsheeit.
    And have three rank 3 units of each promotion available to you from the first time you run the game, just waiting to have their stats distributed and their names changed from the defaults? Would you honestly say that would make Factions a more complete experience or a better game?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Shiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRD View Post
    And have three rank 3 units of each promotion available to you from the first time you run the game, just waiting to have their stats distributed and their names changed from the defaults? Would you honestly say that would make Factions a more complete experience or a better game?
    Yes, actually. The game is strong enough just to be played for itself, there's a good amount of players who don't NEED extraneous rewards to enjoy just playing games for themselves. And it doesn't have to be forced on everyone. I'm hoping there are eventually "super-experienced units" with tonnes of kills for that exact reason, so someone can just enter the game and play the same complete experience as everyone else (pay to lose FTW!)

  5. #25
    Character progression, in a game with RPG elements? No, let's get rid of it. Totally makes sense.
    If you automatically give people maxed out units, you'll have a massive crowd whining about how the game is imbalanced, because they don't know how to play and get trounced by everyone they fight.

  6. #26
    Backer KRD's Avatar
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    That's not to say the game wouldn't work without character progression or pacing. Chess does. I'm just saying it wouldn't necessarily be better in every way conceivable for it.

  7. #27
    Junior Member Chopsticks's Avatar
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    Like, I don't mind paying at most $30-40 for this game. But as is it's just too expensive to get a rank 3 team, nevermind a rank 2 team. Let's say you buy an inexperienced rank 0 team and upgrade them to rank 2. That's 6x10 + 6x40 + 6x150 or 60 + 240 + 900 or 1300 renown.

    I think most of the fun from this game comes not from the grind, but from the actual competitive nature of the game. IE: trying out new builds and combos. Things are fine right now w/ rank 1 teams, but later on it's going to get ridiculous w/ the rank 2 and 3 teams.

  8. #28
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Well, in truth, there's no "right" place in the game yet for higher ranking teams. It's hard to find matches and even months down the line, majority of the playerbase will probably be running rank 1 and lower.

    How we can integrate rankings smoothly into Factions is still currently something everyone (stoic+game+community) is in the endeavor of figuring out. Afterall, this wasn't introduced during the beta and with new stuff comes a new set of wrinkles to smoothen out.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Shiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Character progression, in a game with RPG elements? No, let's get rid of it. Totally makes sense.
    If you automatically give people maxed out units, you'll have a massive crowd whining about how the game is imbalanced, because they don't know how to play and get trounced by everyone they fight.
    Being able to pay to bypass it, like with any normal competitive game (strategy, fighter, whatever) and removing it altogether are completely different. Heck, you can have your cake and eat it if the prices end up such that you're paying an indie game price for one or two sets of units and grind up the rest, and then a full retail price (or even a decent amt more expensive) for everything.

    Right now you can get every rank 1 unit you need for a respectable price (and then some), and is that really something to complain about?

  10. #30
    Junior Member Chopsticks's Avatar
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    I guess one other thing that should be noted: there really needs to be an option to temporarily rank down a unit so you don't have to have several different teams at different ranks.

  11. #31
    Superbacker netnazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopsticks View Post
    Like, I don't mind paying at most $30-40 for this game. But as is it's just too expensive to get a rank 3 team, nevermind a rank 2 team.
    You know, trying to get all rank3 team through gaming is not so achievable either (in fact only several players have enough renown now to have at least 6 rank3 units, and most of them are renown grinders), so it should be expensive to get a rank3 team.

    Also, you still need kills on those units to get them to rank3 (afair you can't buy units with 30 kills now), and by the time you actually get the killcount - you'd have enough renown to promote them all
    Last edited by netnazgul; 03-18-2013 at 01:15 PM.
    If you don't know where to put it - put it in the pillage

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  12. #32
    Senior Member Shiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopsticks View Post
    I guess one other thing that should be noted: there really needs to be an option to temporarily rank down a unit so you don't have to have several different teams at different ranks.
    I agree. In the meantime we can just stick to rank 1 though, and hopefully enough others will do that that we won't end up getting matched against 7+s much.

  13. #33
    Junior Member Chopsticks's Avatar
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    I've got at least 30 kills on each of my units on my main team. I have about 700 renown kicking around right now. That's not even enough for rank 2.

    I haven't bought any colour variations, but I did buy 2 barrack expansions, another rank 1 team and a rank 0 team.

  14. #34
    Member Leartes's Avatar
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    Pay your 30€ on the game and you have so much renown you don't know how to spend it. Honestly, I spend less than that and I played 60-70 games and I have 1600 renown and several teams in my barracks.

    The game is about trying stuff out for me and I could try out tons of stuff on rank 1 already. Go build several teams, try them for 20+ fights and you got enough to upgrade your favorite team. From that point on it gets easier to mix and match as you get more and more units on higher ranks.

    I bet there will be super experienced units to cut the kill-grind later on, but at the moment we don't need them. Also prizes are okish imo. Obviously less is always better. On the other hand I really want them to make that money, stoic deserves the success - and then it goes back into the single player game which they should focus on anyway.
    Last edited by Leartes; 03-25-2013 at 01:37 PM. Reason: math fail

  15. #35
    Junior Member Chopsticks's Avatar
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    1,600,000 renown? Really?

  16. #36
    Junior Member FfSsBb's Avatar
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    I don't understand this whole grind issue. Is there an endgame in The Banner Saga: Factions that I'm unaware of that is sooo much better then the rest of the game? Is playing with a level 18 team so much more fun than playing with a level 6 team? I think the whole MMORPG, JRPG and CoD grinds that a lot of people are expecting in their games can't be really applied here. Ask yourself, what are you playing TBS:F for? To challenge your tactical skills against other players, to be the best at the game, to kill the time until The Banner Saga Chapter 1 releases or to get your whole team to level 3 so you can play level 18 games?

  17. #37
    Junior Member Impaler's Avatar
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    You forgot the most important point: games being decided by a random number generator instead of skill, positioning and strategy

  18. #38
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    That simply isn't true .

    And to see this all you'd have to do is compare 2 people (even playing with the same build/same team and against the same opponent/team), and see which one wins more...

    a) the one who is strategizing and playing accordingly.

    b) the one who is taking strength shots on every turn without breaking.



    Just because we have the mechanic, doesn't mean it is the deciding one.

  19. #39
    Honestly, what is with people complaining about random chance? If you don't like the chance, break the enemy armour first. It's that simple. What, you really think that your 1 STR guy hitting someone with 17 ARM should be a guaranteed hit? Trying to avoid shots with a % chance to miss by breaking enemy armour first is part of the game's strategy.

  20. #40
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    I think the game is keeping a fair distance from pay-to-win type-of-games. And it should well continue in that principle. Not that paying your way to a rank-18 team would get you somewhere: most likely, it'd just get you a consistent beating by experienced players, to whom the matches would seem dull and unrewarding. What it is fun to spend renown on, is color variations, names and other "cosmetics" (I'd also suggest more color-customizations, ability to design sigils/banners etc).

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