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Thread: Rank Reset (Wins-Losses-Streak-Etc)

  1. #21
    Junior Member leiloca's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    Clearly people are taking me for a dumb person, insulting and patronizing me for giving a casual gamer's point of view. Sure, you can make this game the way you want, hardcore only, and have trouble finding new matches 1 year from now or keep fighting the same person over and over cuz the matchmaking will search 100 players only. Or, your can take the opposite approach, where you are not only engaging hardcore players, but also casual players. It's not the hardcore players will lose in this situation. It's a win-win situation.

    You can have a permanent rank. That's ok. You can also intruduce a weekly rank, which is reset every monday. This way, casual players will have a reason to keep playing to try to get into the ranks. This way, harcore players can show they are really hardcore by making the ranks many weeks in a row. You see you won't lose? Why am I stupid for suggesting something like this? The current ranking system does not engage players. Maybe the 1% that are there already, but not the remaining 99%. And if you want this game to suceed, don't be naive and selfish. The more engaged players, the more they will play, the more purchases it will trigger, the more money Stoic will have to keep them happly updating the game.

    Introducing weekly ranks, in order to engage players (harcore and newbies) has no negative trade-off attached to it.

    So please, stop telling me im dumb and stupid for trying to help the game developers. Sure you are a backer as well, and you must be playing this game 20 hours per day, but you gotta think beyond yourself and what you want, you have to think what is good for the developers, which will be good for you as well as time goes by.

    For the two ppl that patronized me, babysit me, you can go fuck yourselves

  2. #22
    Backer KRD's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
    But... there already are weekly rankings in there. They're just called tournaments.

  3. #23
    Junior Member leiloca's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by franknarf View Post
    Stats matter to folks like the OP not for any good reason, but just because they are there to see. I suspect that many folks, when not in a match, go straight to the HoV to see their updated stats (as I do). Once the Trophy Tower opens up, they'll be able to peruse (and obsess over ) their achievements, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leartes View Post
    If the OP really wants it, I can see an individual reset-stats button that resets everything (maybe except elo?) only for yourself. Not sure what the impact on elo would be, but shouldn't be too bad if people don't use it too much (apart from the sand-bagging if high-skilled players reset to farm new players).

    I'd be seriously pissed if my total game number or total win number ever gets whiped. It is a tribute to how much and long I play this game and it is there for eternity, hehe.
    There you go. Why insulting me. Obviously you can't see beyond yourselves. You got high ranks, so you are here to take down any chances of make this game sucesfull by engaging a larger part of the comunity but yourselves. I'm not stupid. I don't need a buttom only for me.

    It's clear for me reading you words your are sure you are better then I am. Well miss, you are wrong there.

    You're clearly going to attack anywone that proposes something that may touch your king stats, even if it doesnt , cuz your blind to see there could be game mechanics that would make noobs play the game as well. You'll rot here alone in 1 years if noone touches you. Are you that high?

  4. #24
    Member Leartes's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
    Aachen - Germany
    I have not insulted you, neither in the quoted passage nor in the rest of my post. My elo-ranking is about 1100 and I have not participated in a single tournament. Also my total number of ranked games is somewhere between 50 and 60. I'm not hardcore at all :-)

    Anyway, as KRD said. There are weekly stats in the tournament. Every week all participants reset to 1000 elo and reset current streaks.

  5. #25
    Junior Member leiloca's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    I'm just going to end with this: this game is lacking engagement. Engagement means I wanna go back and play more and more, cuz i can accomplish something and be rewarded for that. Me, the noob, and also the hardcore players. I'm playing Banner saga right now to kill some time PVPing. I get some renow which i cannot use and even if I do it only gets me 1 stats, which does not make that much difference in a game whatsoever, since I'll be playing agains same rank ppl. So as it is, it is just a nice pvp time killer with no rewards attached. No engagement.

    Have an open mind to learn? Play Blood Brothers. Even if it is childish or whatever your critics may be, just play it to realise the potential of this game if it had the same player engagement BB achieved by introducing a few elements to their games, such as allies, different kinds of events, happening all the time, rewards for the masses, top 1 player gets legendary stuff, #30,000 player gets a silver coin and is still happy. Just go for it. Give it a try. You'll see what I'm talking about.

    And the only reason I am "wasting" my time here is because I want this game to suceed. Like I said, it was a WOW for me at a first glance. I love RPG. I love turn based. I love strategy. But I also love rewarding games. And this is not a rewarding game for someone who only has 1-2 hours per day to play.

    BB 10 million downloads (only in Play store). You start an event and after a few battles you're 523,0322 in rank. Which means approx. 1 million ppl must be playing the events at the same time. How can you ignore those engagement mechanics they made? The numbers speak for themselves. They started out really shy, like us here at Banner Saga, and the masses came when they started adding events, allies, rewards, and stuff that kept ppl playing. That's the road to sucess right there. It's given. That's my whole point.
    I'm gone, you won't be hearing from me anymore.
    Later and thx.
    Last edited by leiloca; 03-19-2013 at 10:19 AM.

  6. #26
    By the way, I think having the game make money is secondary to providing a good ad/demo/thing-to-do-while-waiting for a forthcoming single-player game. They don't want to tarnish that element by making a pay-to-win or addictive game. Also, as you know, they may not have time to polish the game (at least in the direction you propose) right now and are only adding things that are useful for the single-player experience.

    I think they can catch up on the size of the player base later, after selling hundreds of thousands of copies of the Saga. For now, I think it's enough just to make sure there are no major turn-offs for new players (like, perhaps, the thing you brought up).

    ^ This is not patronizing <-- This is patronizing I don't think my earlier comments were offensive, but anyway there's no need to curse.

    EDIT: Just read your new comment. I look at the stats all the time, too, as I said in my comment. That was not an insult towards you or anyone else. What you said about not seeing beyond myself, or whatever, was clearly meant as an insult,, I'm totally okay with that. Cheers.
    Last edited by franknarf; 03-19-2013 at 10:20 AM. Reason: the convo's too fast

  7. #27
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    May 2012
    Manila, Philippines
    Moderator rules the posts were well meant and non-offensive.

  8. #28
    Superbacker piotras's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
    I guess we need to make a distinction between elo and stats. Elo has a use to make match-making better and is much more dynamic due to how you are rewarded / stripped off elo as time goes by. Permanent stats however is the primary reason for why things got toxic (noob abuse, cookie cutter builds etc.) and why threads like this one appear. We shouldn't underestimate the message here, since there's definitely more new people like leiloca who never bother to come to the forums, but just drops the game altogether.

    I like how Magic The Gathering Planechase handles their stats: it's all private, but it tells you were you sit in the general online ranking.

    EDIT: typo
    Last edited by piotras; 03-19-2013 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #29
    Yeah, that's actually what I was saying - as much as I disagree with leiloca's point, I think it is worth thinking about how to cater to that type of player so that we grow the playerbase.

    If anything, I wouldn't want to reset Elo because that will cause _more_ noob abuse, rather than less.

    By the by, I don't think Blood Brothers is actually a very good game to be drawing inspiration from. It feeds you lots of little reward in drips and drops, the typical MMO/freemium model, but it has a very big grind as a result. Factions doesn't have as many rewards to earn, sure, but that means it has a blessedly short grind.

    (Factions has a _broad_ grind, BB has a _deep_ grind, if that makes any sense. Except that Factions grind isn't very broad yet either - it's just small right now. But as more unit types get released you will reach the point where there are a great many things to earn renown for, but not a very deep power hump to climb.)

  10. #30
    Superbacker gripho's Avatar
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    May 2012
    I don't think Elo should ever be reset, as it would seriously hamper matchmaking. A button to reset your own Elo would be a lesser evil, but would still lead to Elo inflation (it would be used by people under 1000 Elo, which would bring them back to 1000 Elo, and they would then give other players more Elo when they lose...).

  11. #31
    As a True casual gamer (meaning I don't have any more time than 2-3 matches a day) I find this game is the epitome of fair PvP gaming.

    PvP is fair and balanced means I don't have to worry about suddenly facing 2 20AR/25STR Warhawks since the other guy spent 200 Euro to buy +10/+7 Elite Odin Amulets nor my rank 1 team won't meet a rank 6 team cause the other guy grind for 18 hours straight.
    This game has alot of potential cause it is fair, not heavy on the money spenders or the grinders.
    As you play more, YOU yourself level up, you understand the tactics and unit movements better as you play more.
    The only game I know that is like this is Counter-Strike and Chess. BOTH are Legendary games.

    Banner Saga Factions already have the base of a good PvP game that is the player itself determine whether they are going to win or lose, when I lose my mind would be "Did I move the BM too soon? did I shot the wrong target? etc." not maybe I should have purchased that unit...or worst maybe I need to purchase to win

    Anyway, Leiloca's idea if the dev would choose to take it. (Adding Elite/Premium Units/ stat altering items)
    could take BS:F in the direction of almost every game today, pay to win, they would rake money from BS:F but the potential to make a legendary game would be lost

    Trying to make players feel attached is good idea though, but I don't think better stats units and or stats altering items is a good idea

    Think of your choice :

    Blood Brothers : 10 million downloads, but how many are active players?
    Counter-Strike : over 10 years and some still play 1.6. Heck some still play 1.1 for bunny hopping
    Last edited by LieChenZhou; 03-21-2013 at 02:59 AM.

  12. #32
    Junior Member Two's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    Bump. Constructive conversations and interesting suggestions!

  13. #33
    Junior Member djangoc's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by leiloca View Post
    I explained myself badly. By having a chance to win I mean having a chance to climb the ranks. People with 20 hours per day will climb Wins rank. Hardcore / theorycrafting players will climb the "Win/Losses" rank as well as Kill Streak ranks. There is no place for a casual gamer to be engaged this way. I'm just trying to express my point of view as a casual gamer. There is no point for me to go back to the game. What's the point? PVP griding? That's something new for me. I really like this game, i bought the eternal boost as well as some color stuff in order to support the developers. But there should be some kind of rank reset. Even if it's like not for me personally, but for everyone once a month. When the reset comes, top ranking players are rewarded somehow. So the rank is always temporary. Maybe this could be a third rank besides all-time and tournament. I don't know.

    Blood Brothers, for instance, a similar game to this (on Andoird) has events, like the Tournaments here, but with much more rewards, even for ppl at 30,000# position. This game has so much potential. DEVS, IF YOU ARE READING THIS, PLEASE check how blood brothers do in order to keep ppl playing. Weekly events, rank reset, more rewards. Banner Saga's combat mechanics + Blood Brothers's player engagement = ultimate fun time.

    My 2 cents.
    They should definitely add leagues but ultimately every single game on the market right now works the same. Higher Elo players play against high Elo players, lower Elo players play against low Elo players. The better/luckier you get at the game, the more your Elo rises. If you lose 100 matches in a row, and then start winning your Elo will rise.

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