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Thread: One bug, and three bits of feedback

  1. #1

    One bug, and three bits of feedback

    Let me start by saying that this game is incredible and I adore it.

    I have a bug to report, and three quality-of-life suggestions that would make this game even more amazing.

    Bug: when a Thrasher with 1 hp thrashes a Shieldmaster who has Bring the Pain active, the Thrasher's armor is not reduced. In my game, the opponent's Thrasher had 5 HP when he began to thrash my Shieldmaster. His armor reduced to 3 on the first strike, reduced to 1 on the second strike, and stayed at 1 on the third strike (instead of being reduced to 0). I can't remember whether or not the fourth strike hit.

    I don't know whether this bug triggers whenever a 1-armor unit hits a Shieldmaster with Bring the Pain active, or just Thrashers when they're thrashing. I also don't know whether there's an analogous bug with higher ranks of Bring the Pain (e.g., if a 2-armor unit hits a Shieldmaster with Rank 2 or 3 of Bring the Pain active).

    And some suggestions:

    - Let us rearrange units in the barracks. It seems like a lot of people just make one 6-person team and keep it for life, but I spent a lot of my renown buying and leveling new units so that I could try everything out. It'd be nice if I could organize my units by rank, type, etc, instead of having everyone in a random mishmash determined by when I happened to buy them.

    - Let us cancel the "Ready" button after placing units, or, alternatively, add a confirmation button after Ready has been clicked. Sometimes, depending on where you've scrolled the screen, the Ready button will appear right above a unit, and if you absent-mindedly click the unit, you'll Ready your team instead. This happens very rarely, but when it does happen, is extremely frustrating.

    - Let us get some renown for playing friendly matches. Currently, matches with friends give no renown for anything except the daily bonus, and units don't gain kills for leveling purposes. This is a prohibitive disincentive for playing against your friends, which is puzzling and tragic in a multiplayer game. Can there be no compromise? What if we got renown for kills, but the kills weren't counted for leveling; and if one player surrenders, neither player gets any renown. I understand the need to prevent friends from farming renown off each other, but don't discourage us from playing with our friends entirely!

    (The #1 thing missing, actually, is the ability to see stats for any unit other than the active unit, but I understand this is already coming soon. :)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borissimo View Post
    Bug: when a Thrasher with 1 hp thrashes a Shieldmaster who has Bring the Pain active, the Thrasher's armor is not reduced
    Confirmed. In my experience only the first two hit are registered, and the third and later hits see no loss of armor. Happens consistently.
    I think this has been reported already in the relevant forum though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borissimo View Post
    - Let us rearrange units in the barracks.
    - Let us cancel the "Ready" button after placing units
    Seconded on both counts, but both those have been requested multiple times already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borissimo View Post
    - Let us get some renown for playing friendly matches.
    Just... No. There is no way to to compromise on this without breaking the whole renown system, because it could be abused so easily. Not winning renown should not "discourage you from playing with friends entirely". If it does, you should be asking yourself, what's the point of the game to you ? If it's all farming points and none of the fun of actually playing a match (with a friend), there's probably a problem here.

  3. #3
    Nah, that's not a bug. The thrasher has shield wall from an adjacent ally and so cannot be reduced below 1 armor.

    (The #1 thing missing, actually, is the ability to see stats for any unit other than the active unit, but I understand this is already coming soon.
    I couldn't agree more.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by franknarf View Post
    Nah, that's not a bug. The thrasher has shield wall from an adjacent ally and so cannot be reduced below 1 armor.
    Just got to your post reading through this thread and I was going to post is it because of shield wall effect and you have already done so

    I asked about barracks organisation before and its planned, just very low down on the priority list at the moment. Stat viewing I believe Raven said was in a build post Pax at some point.

    Cancelling the ready button would be nice, although if the other person has already pressed you will start so can't anyway. So not sure if this is really needed but would be a nice to have.

  5. #5
    Junior Member Hemnon's Avatar
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    Just... No. There is no way to to compromise on this without breaking the whole renown system, because it could be abused so easily.
    Solutions for friendly renown involving AI (which is forthcoming) would be simple and elegant. Another may be to have some renown trickling in based on non-absentee amount of time played, which would resist being milked, but reward time spent engaged in the game (which is already essentially what we get renown for).

    Don't be so quick to dismiss a point of view that differs from yours. There is a demographic of players who will absolutely *not* find the game engaging in the long term if there's no way to progress and explore the game space while simultaneously playing with friends. That's just how it is for some of us: play games to spend quality time with friends, not to impress strangers.

  6. #6
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    I quite like the suggestions Hemnon, I think it may be the first time someone has suggested ways to do it. Now, it will be some amount of time for the AI, and absentee meter (like in other games) I'm not sure how feasible that will be.

    There's a lot of things we can improve and tweak when it comes to Factions, and there's a lot of potential for additional system to improve the quality of life in the game and convenience. I could probably list down 20 things at least based on all the discussions we have on the forums.

    Part of the constraints, however, is that Factions is, for the moment, being used as a precursor to the single player game. And as much as possible, for project management reasons, Stoic will probably only be able to work on changes and improvements that also see use in the single player that is also being developed.

    If Factions was their sole focus, I'm sure they could work out and implement many of the changes, because they do look good. And I'm sure once the single player ships, they plan to do this.

    I think what's important right now is to get the game to a good place, where it's playable and fun, like 90% of the way there. And then work out the last 10% when there's time and space to do so. It's really amazing how much of a difference that 10% can make, and I really do like the great number of suggestions that make sense, and that I feel will make a great difference for the game (just eventually ).

  7. #7
    Junior Member Hemnon's Avatar
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    Thanks for such a nice response!

    It (perhaps not entirely) goes without saying that I'm loving the game! I continuously recommend it to people. I only harp on the friendly-play renown payoffs issue when it pops up because I think it's legitimately a deal-breaker for some folks, even when they're not overtly aware of it (people "just losing interest", so to speak, because they're daunted by matchmaking).

    I certainly understand that Stoic has plenty of major systems for single player to get up and running before addressing the nitty-gritty non-essential issues floating around here in Factions; And with good cause! The single player is the heart and soul of the development cycle.

    All I *really* want is for everybody to keep up the good work, and y'all are doing me one better by listening to the community so carefully. So, thanks for that.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemnon View Post
    Solutions for friendly renown involving AI (which is forthcoming) would be simple and elegant. Another may be to have some renown trickling in based on non-absentee amount of time played, which would resist being milked, but reward time spent engaged in the game (which is already essentially what we get renown for).

    Don't be so quick to dismiss a point of view that differs from yours. There is a demographic of players who will absolutely *not* find the game engaging in the long term if there's no way to progress and explore the game space while simultaneously playing with friends. That's just how it is for some of us: play games to spend quality time with friends, not to impress strangers.
    Wow. Ok. Did not expect to elicit that kind of response...
    I did not mean to dismiss an opinion that is different from mine. I probably should have worded it differently (no way to compromise... I can think of). I dismissed the absence of an articulated different opinion ; as raven noted, up until now there had been no viable solution proposed towards non-exploitable renown gain in friend matches. And it's not like it's the first time the subject came up.

    Anyway, I tip my hat to you for the constructive suggestion. I'm not sure how the solution involving AI would work, but that's probably just me being thick. The time-based trickle seems feasible, although I don't imagine it could realistically be going to the top of the todo list anytime soon.

    Oh, and for the record, I find that last jab completely uncalled for.
    Last edited by Butters; 03-25-2013 at 02:48 AM.

  9. #9
    I think it would be nice to have at least some renown gain for friend matches, or alternatively some way of gifting your renown to friends. I say this primarily because I'd like to play the game with my younger bothers, but am hesitant to do so if they're going to have to grind online for a while to get to where I am. I don't want to get them addicted too :P

    To prevent abuse of this, I'd suggest that neither party gets any renown if one of them surrenders.
    Last edited by simon280586; 03-25-2013 at 04:30 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon280586 View Post
    To prevent abuse of this, I'd suggest that neither party gets any renown if one of them surrenders.
    That'd be a good start. Surrendering is not the only way to milk the system though. One could match up a pair of 1-man teams with the lowest arm/hp possible, and finish every game in one turn. You get less kill points but still get the fixed bonuses.EDIT: apparently you can't do that.
    Giving renown only for kills and disabling all bonuses in friend matches (except daily, which already applies) could be acceptable middle ground (since you actually have to take the time to make the kills), but there's probably a way to exploit that too...

    To a certain extent you can do friend matches with renown by aligning your team power and going into quickmatch as the same time. Unless there's a huge gap in elo, that usually works quite well.
    Last edited by Butters; 03-25-2013 at 05:31 AM.

  11. #11
    Huh. I didn't know you could do one-man teams. I might try the quickmatch suggestion, although if that is effective it would potentially be a better source of grinding renown than friend matches would be (ie, one of you could surrender, rinse, repeat).

  12. #12
    Senior Member Butters's Avatar
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    Hum, did not think of that. Good point. You'd need to have very close elo values for it to work well, but 2 people could do that indefinitely, that's true.
    I think one of the devs hinted at a feature preventing rematches coming to the matchmaker, which would pretty much solve the exploit problem - but kill the use as a de facto friend match thing. Not completely sure that was actually said though, just a fuzzy memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by simon280586 View Post
    Huh. I didn't know you could do one-man teams.
    Just checked, you can't. My mistake.
    Last edited by Butters; 03-25-2013 at 05:32 AM.

  13. #13
    ok random one, talking of abusing renown and not sure this is the best place, whats to stop folks repeatedly doing the tutorial. I think you get 5 renown per time for that? Was showing a friend how to play the game who redid the tutorial on my account and I gained the renown hence the thought?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Kuba's Avatar
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    I replayed tutorial right now and I didn't get any renown. Are you sure you gained renown by replaying tutorial?

  15. #15
    Junior Member Hemnon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters View Post
    Oh, and for the record, I find that last jab completely uncalled for.
    Ah, jeez, I apologize for the last bit sounding like a jab. I often find the (rather ugly) opinion that "if you don't like random matchmaking, then GTFO," but it wasn't actually present in your response. I do want to promote my case, but not at your personal expense.

    Thanks for the reply, too.

  16. #16
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Good on you two for working it out friendly like

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