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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Let's Play: The Banner Saga PAX demo!

  1. #161
    Though I guess, it will have some kind of consequence, if a character 'dies' in battle. They might get 'injured' or something like that, so you can't use them for a while to fight or tasks in story mode.

  2. #162
    Superbacker quartex's Avatar
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    We already have evidence of units being injured from battle:

    https://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthr...le-player-game
    :

  3. #163
    Oh, I hadn't actually realized until just now, but the next part of the preview went up over on kickstarter during the website downtime


    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga/posts/596052

  4. #164
    Ah, awesome, thanks InfiniteNutshell!

    Love it! I feel this may be one of the very few games that I actually play through multiple times. It's great that you give these subtle hints on what might happen in a situation. It's like reading a good novel, where it's rewarding to pay attention to details like that (Song of Ice and Fire), but here this actually changes the story. Great, great stuff.


    And I vote #1, because I wanna have more bad things to happen. Let's see how hardcore it gets.

  5. #165
    Alex said to vote in the comments, so I put my vote there, but conversations are much easier here, so I'm copying it.

    I'll vote #2. The only thing we know about the dredge is what we've learned from Iver (And the little we've seen from our combats with them). If he's saying that taking supplies will make it easier for the dredge to keep up with us, then we have to believe that's true. We'll have to rely on the ability to forage, hunt, fish, etc while we move.

    I also have a question about the text in the game. Is there still going to be a step of having it all proof-read, and maybe even edited, before release? I've noticed some grammar errors and typos, and that kind of thing is very distracting to me. Maybe there's supposed to be an in-story reason for these (Like maybe Rook is meant to be uneducated, so he would be likely to say "Allow Iver and I" instead of "Iver and me", or maybe "dredge" is lowercase because they're thought of as things rather than a race of sentient beings, etc). But if not, it can use some polishing in that area.

  6. #166
    Junior Member LeCheeba's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to this little gem more than anything else that's on the horizon.
    "More than the successor to the greatest game you have ever played Lecheeba son?" yes more than Dark Souls 2
    as if that needed clarification
    I feel like a kid at Christmas getting a peak at his presents with this LP both excited and tormented by the possibilities that lie ahead. I choose number 2 stay behind with the big man and do battle.
    Let's have it soon alex man the suspense is killing me. Keep up the good work. Can't wait for the saga
    Last edited by LeCheeba; 09-16-2013 at 07:37 PM.

  7. #167
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCheeba View Post
    I feel like a kid at Christmas getting a peak at his presents with this LP both excited and tormented by the possibilities that lie ahead.
    +1 You described word for word mine own feelings too!

  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #168
    Creative Director Alex's Avatar
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    Part 4 (previously unposted due to hax!)


    Part 5: the finale!


    This is the last part of our PAX demo, and we're showing off something I'm not sure most people realize is in the game. Enjoy and thanks for watching!

  9. #169
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    This is the last part of our PAX demo, and we're showing off something I'm not sure most people realize is in the game. Enjoy and thanks for watching!
    Thank you very much for the video-episodes series guys! It was an awesome... tease!

    So, this <not-game-over after a defeat in a fight> feature is something that we could also weight into our decisions For instance, this last choice led to more supplies but bigger casualties (along with some not-so-main characters dying). I'm guessing that if #2 was chosen, we'd have less supplies but an easier fight, less casualties (?) and/or potentially more time before the dredge catch-up. What I'm saying is that, in some situations, the eventual outcome of particular choice might prove to be better or worse, regardless of the battle outcome. In this particular situation, and given that the battle was won in whichever choice we made, the #3 was probably the best one -- more provisions. Apparently, that wasn't the case with Egil's death where "a choice killed him", i.e. there wasn't the "second-chance" of a battle to mitigate/equalize/mend the "bad" choice...

    I'm also curious how Renown works with the Saga. Is it like Faction, i.e. some sort of currency which you can cash-out to promote characters, rally allies, recruit mercenaries, buy supplies etc? Or, is it some score-meter, e.g. you have to reach a certain level of Renown to "unlock" the next parts of the story, see how well you did etc? (like your way to the Kingship in KoDP).

  10.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #170
    Creative Director Alex's Avatar
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    As for weighting your decisions, you pretty much never want to lose a fight. That'll always lead to the worst result.

    In most decisions we try to make it so that you know as much as your character. In this example, you don't know if trying to gather supplies will be more dangerous than another option, though Iver gives you his opinion. It comes back to: you should know what you're trying to do, but not how it's going to happen. I can definitely tell you that choice #3 wasn't "better" than the other two, they just have different results. However, I can say that choice #3 was harder than the other two, because you chose the riskiest option.

    In Egil's case, you have the choice to send him and Alette to safety, and then you have a second chance to save them as things went wrong. We do try to give you options to redirect a situation, but there's always a cost.

    I think for some people this might be a painful game. We're so used to being told by games that we're invincible heroes and there's no such thing as failure. This game is chock full of failure, and we're just trying to make it as fair as possible.

    Renown is like Factions in that it's the only currency in the game. You use Renown to buy items, supplies, upgrade and promote units, recruit some allies, etc. This makes it kind of a balancing act because you can't do everything, so you have to prioritize the best use for it. You get Renown from battles, but you also get it to a large degree from plot points.

  11. #171
    Looks lovely. I can't wait to give it a spin.

    One little nitpick I meant to mention. During conversations, character outfits occasionally flapping in the invisible breeze looks really strange. I found it to be distracting.

  12. #172
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Thanks for your time and the detailed response, Alex Much appreciated. I'm posting some more thoughts/comments...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    In Egil's case, you have the choice to send him and Alette to safety, and then you have a second chance to save them as things went wrong. We do try to give you options to redirect a situation, but there's always a cost.
    Are there any situations where plot-twists and battle are interweaved? For instance, in this "Alette incident", I had this idea: When the menacing Dredge is revealed, and depending on Rooks choices, a "scenario/scripted battle" begins, where one the first move Alette takes a blow and gets maimed. Then, its Rook & her vs the Dredge, who just tries to kill her. Distances and stat-points are all very tight (or not so tight, if you took a "good" option), so this kinda resembles a Factions/Pillage situation where you gotta think the moves out VERY carefully. Perhaps even coming down to 70-80% RNG shots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I think for some people this might be a painful game. We're so used to being told by games that we're invincible heroes and there's no such thing as failure. This game is chock full of failure, and we're just trying to make it as fair as possible.
    At last! I know that real-life is usually hard & cruel and people see games as an alternate-universe where everything can work just fine, but, its also true that the most memorable and thrilling entertainment-related moments of our lives (books, films, etc) are tied to such "bad times".
    Last edited by Aleonymous; 09-19-2013 at 01:54 AM.

  13. #173
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Aleo, based on what I've seen and what I personally think, I think stoic isn't trying to "rig" battles the way you described. I can imagine what you're describing to be pretty annoying in combat. I do know your choices can have impact on battles, check the battle screenshot from the media kits just recently outed (like on kotaku). Did you see the shot where they're surrounded? That's probably an example, something happened to get them into that situation. Morale also will have an affect on your characters entering battle. So there will be elements of the game affecting your battle conditions.

    I don't think rigging fights like how you mentioned would be very fun though. Even on full stats there's more than enough hurt on the battle field to throw around

  14. #174
    Backer balnoisi's Avatar
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    great end to the demo videos. really makes me want to play now, but all in its due time !

    about what Alex says the game being painful, filled with feelings of failure .. as long as all that sadness and gloominess and those deaths feel natural to the world and flow properly inside the scripted narrative i, for one, am going to love it.

    i remember when i went to the cinema with my then-girlfriend to watch that apocalyptic film "The Road", i left the theater touched by it but also pleased with the film, only missing a little more adventure in it if i was to be nitpicky (but still a solid 7 / 10 for me ;P). but my girlfriend she hated it, she agreed it was well shot and all but she couldn't cope with so much depression. plus if any of you have seen the film the mise-en-scene, the color palette, everything is really bleak. some people they don't want to watch or read anything outside their 'comfort zone' if you get what i mean, it's just like that.
    this won't be the case at least at the beginning of the saga, i think it will have highs and lows and i will like it anyway though it's true some people won't; some may even be mislead by the classic art style, and will expect something like disney's "The Sword in the Stone" but i am sure those will be a minority.

    i'm curious so far we have seen very vivid colours in scenes/characters/landscapes. i wonder if Arnie has planned to change the 'palette' as the caravan perseveres on its journey, and perhaps the situations become more desperate, and it travels through some truly desolate, hopeless scenarios.
    Last edited by balnoisi; 09-18-2013 at 07:52 PM.

  15. #175
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven2134 View Post
    I don't think rigging fights like how you mentioned would be very fun though. Even on full stats there's more than enough hurt on the battle field to throw around
    Perhaps it was the magic word (RNG) that sprung this response!

    That kotaku image where the band was surrounded by the Dredge is exactly what I mean, but on a way larger scale. Also, I'm not really sure I understand what "rigging fights" is (language wise).

    Personally, I don't think it would be "un-fun", to fight a hard mini-battle, and thus been given a third (!) chance to save a character from perma-death. This mini-battle in the "Alette incident" could be on a tight 8x8 map with very tight deployment zones. Depending on your choices (charge with axe, attack with bow, shout), the deployment zones for Rook & Alette as well as the first-move (Rook, Alette or Dredge / Pillage mode or normal) could vary to make the fight easier or harder, or just randomize it for re-playability. If you put some thought to it, its only deployment zones and initiative that you gotta tweak and nothing else (i.e. having units start the fight crippled etc).

  16. #176
    Backer gaelvin's Avatar
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    I know that we didn't see the entire final fight, but it seemed to me that at least one of "our" men was still standing when the Defeated banner dropped. Does this mean that there are different ways to determine a Win or Loss in the Saga as opposed to Factions (where the fight isn't over until all opponents have fallen)?

    I can't begin to say how much I'm looking forward to the Saga... the words don't exist in my vocabulary.
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  17. #177
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaelvin View Post
    I know that we didn't see the entire final fight, but it seemed to me that at least one of "our" men was still standing when the Defeated banner dropped. Does this mean that there are different ways to determine a Win or Loss in the Saga as opposed to Factions (where the fight isn't over until all opponents have fallen)?
    gaelvin, I think Alex just quit the match at that point, just to show that things don't end with a defeat. It seemed to me, and I think Alex said it too, that the battle was completely viable/winnable by the time he quit (it was like 3-vs-2).

    There's also an interesting talk in the comments:
    Question - Am I right to assume that characters can only permanently die as a result of the dialogue scenarios and not from combat?
    Alex - Nope, but usually a character only dies from combat if your whole party falls and the story continues. That is to say, a character won't die randomly due to combat, but a character can die as the result of failing a battle.

  18. #178
    Backer gaelvin's Avatar
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    Ah,that makes sense... I haven't played factions in a while, but when I did I never surrendered, so I'm unfamiliar with what that looks like
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  19. #179
    Y U NO SHOW THE FULL BATTEL?

    On a more important note, very nice tease. I'm very hopeful for this game (and for any future Stoic project!). It's so refreshing to see games going back to that era where failure came in degrees or trade-offs and was an actual consequence and part of the experience instead of it being simply an insta-game over or replaced by an alternate way to success (no matter your choice).

  20. #180
    Backer Slimsy Platypus's Avatar
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    The color scheme just nails it for me. In factions we're used to the environments being mostly composed within the blue and brown-black spectrum, but man the dredge animations on the green battle boards look soooooooo good. After being absent from factions for a bit and coming back I recently found myself re-shocked by the absolute beauty of the game, and these videos are the worst kind of teaser that there is much more to come

    What's ever more exciting is that the Let's Play series has showed us that the Saga's story is right up to par with the visual beauty. I foresee lot's play throughs to see how various character's react to your differing decisions. It's looking like this is going to have all the elements to hit my nerdly buttons: adjustable stat points, a host of unique characters, meaningful and rewarding decisions, and obviously the absolutely stunning beauty of the 2D artwork! Although, one thing that I haven't seen anyone comment on is the music! I mean go back and listen to Let's Play 1; the music that plays as we pan over the 2D artwork of the dredge with the deer over his shoulder just nails it! Now go back and listen to the music in Let's Play 5... the drums! It's so good! I'm not sure if this is just filler stuff (as the music is not interrupted when Alex pans forward during the battle), but I'm super excited to see how the "dynamic" music system pans out in combat. Everything appears to be done so well. Keep up the good work Stoic!

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