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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Let's Play: The Banner Saga PAX demo!

  1. #41
    I vote vor #1: Go with Egil

    There is a good chance that the enemy may appear at the town hall while the fighters are away searching for whatever scared the folks. So Alette would be more useful helping to defend the townies.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Kuba's Avatar
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    Very nice update, can't wait for release. I vote for number 1.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Antares View Post
    Thanks for the response.

    Just to clarify, I'm not talking about "best" choices but more easily identifiable dilemmas. The way I read the available responses (and of course I could be wrong but, again, that's part of the fun in playing a game) is that #1 sends the young warriors away, keeping them safe (with a possible bonus for letting the chieftain know that an attack is underway and thus help prepare the defenses/save more lives) while #3 keeps the young warriors at hand for the next battle, with the possible bonus of scoring a kill and the risk of falling in battle. Number 2, however, seems less clear: is it a stricter version of #1? Will it impact on Rook's relationship towards Alette? Does it result in her leaving or does it open up more dialogue options? (the latter seems unlikely, because I don't think we'd get to wait a couple of days for the next video only to be faced with another vote).

    I do agree, though, that there comes a point where if things get overanalyzed, it becomes hand-holding. Maybe it's just #2 that I can't quite understand how it'd impact on the story (the "real impact" you mentioned) and I guess that's reflected in the fewer votes, compared to "leave" (#1) and "stay" (#3).
    I agree: it's unclear to me what choice 2 actually does compared to choice 1.

  4. #44
    Superbacker quartex's Avatar
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    I like the idea of some choices being a bit vague. You don't know exactly how people will respond to your comments. I don't want everything spelled out for me. Part of the fun of the game is seeing what different choices do.

  5. #45
    Backer Slimsy Platypus's Avatar
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    Just to clarify (I'm Brendan Cook) the first time I read through the text I was confused at what the choices actually meant not what the implications where. Like, I am not really sure what I am deciding by picking 2 or 3. 1 is clear what Rook is choosing, but 2 and 3 could be interpreted a couple different ways.

  6. #46
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    My vote is "Go with Egil. We'll be back soon"

  7. #47
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimsy Platypus View Post
    I was confused at what the choices actually meant not what the implications were.
    I'll agree with you, especially on option #2. Perhaps, each option, i.e. each "phrase" your character says, could be accompanied by some text in italics providing support/narrative. e.g.

    (1) Go with Egil -- Rook urges Egil to escort Alette to the Hall.
    (2) Not now, Alette! -- Irritation builds up on Rook's face and Alette sullenly follows Egil.
    (3) Let them fight -- Alette smiles and starts stringing her bow.

  8. #48
    Wow, the video is great! The setting is very atmospheric and the art style is simply gorgeous. Single player is looking like it will live up to its (huge) potential!

    However, I've come back from my forum hiatus (Factions was just eating too much of my time) to share the concern about confusing dialogue options. Nothing breaks immersion in a dialogue as much as realizing that you misunderstood the meaning of the option you've chosen. And to be honest, I'm not sure I fully understand these three options. I assume that options 1 & 2 are basically the same just spoken in a different tone? This is in itself a bit confusing, but should be ok if the player can be sure of the meaning (which I'm not in this case). Option 3 is also a bit confusing to me because both 1 & 2 are obviously directed at Alette, but it seems as if 3 is directed at Iver, correct? I think this should be indicated somehow.

    I think Aleonymous' idea of providing accompanied text could solve this. But it would also give away some of the consequences of your choices, which might not be what Stoic intends to do here..
    aka nexxxus

  9. #49
    I choose option 1--go with Egil. Trainees should not be thrown into first combat with the mysterious bad guys

  10. #50
    Uh oh. Now after reading the other posts I am not exactly sure what I voted for either. I thought the choice concerned the trainees on the field when they arrived but now I see it might have concerned the girl warrior?

  11. #51
    This looks great! I vote for #3 "Let them fight". I think they need to gain some valuable experience.

  12. #52
    Just watched the LP video, and came here to comment, only to find out everyone was saying already. Oh well I had it typed before realizing it was too long for Youtube comments:

    When it comes to decisions that can affect the story, a good decision point must be three things:

    1. The Player must realize they are making a decision (e.g. it can't look like some throwaway dialogue).
    2. The Player must feel like have enough information to make the decision, so it's not the equivalent of flipping a coin.
    3. The choice the Player makes must have logical consequences, e.g. turning on a lightswitch should not kill a random character for no particular reason.

    I think as it is, the decision in the video violates Rule #2, as you can't tell what you're doing. Fighting alone would obviously be harder, while fighting with help would obviously expose the other characters to danger. What does saying "Not now" do? It's completely vague.

    And @quartex, no, it shouldn't be a bit vague. It's appropriate that the consequences aren't known, but if you don't even know what you're choosing, then why have the choice at all? It might as well roll a random number and not bring the player into it.

  13. #53
    Another point would be that the three choices are not equivalent grammatically -hence, their implications in terms of role-playing the character are not the same:

    Choices #1 and #2 are written as direct speech, i.e. what Rook might actually say (or at the very least in the vein of his upcoming response) to Alette.

    However, choice #3 is either a thought/decision or what Rook would suggest to Iver in direct speech (though there is no indication that Iver would have the final say in this decision -again, it would not be unreasonable, in terms of role-playing this situation, since he is the one who initially tells Egil to take Alette to the great hall, to warn the chieftain, in the first place, however responses 1 and 2 show that Rook would have final say in this).

    Now, if #3 is not directed to Iver (as I would guess), then it's not equivalent to #1 and #2 because it gives no indication as to the manner in which the permission would be given: would it be kind and reassuring, as the dismissal in #1, or sterner, as the dismissal in #2? And if there are two different ways to send Alette away, with the manner in which this is done presumably having some impact on Rook's relationship with the young archer (or perhaps setting the tone of his overall leadership in terms of role-playing the character) shouldn't there be a kind and stern way of letting her stay to fight?

    I realize all this may seem like analyzing the scene a bit too much, but at the same time I feel it is very interesting how much information and design choices can be found in three short responses.

    On another note, would it be possible to have the banner flying behind the cart start short and become longer as the march progresses and the number of people joining the caravan grows? As it is, it seems a bit grandiose, I guess, having this huge red banner fly over a cart and two people. Graphics are fantastic overall and this is a very small detail. I blame my nitpicking on having just these 6 minutes of footage to go
    Last edited by Antares; 09-03-2013 at 12:09 AM.

  14. #54
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antares View Post
    On another note, would it be possible to have the banner flying behind the cart start short and become longer as the march progresses and the number of people joining the caravan grows?
    I've noted that too, and actually thought just what you said -- that the banner's length is proportional to the population of the caravan. It certainly seems so in this background-image in the forums etc.

    I wonder where will the crest-designs appear... (unlucky me )

  15. #55
    #3 - Let's fight.

  16. #56
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    That's quite a useful analysis Antares. After mulling things over I think yea there could be a way to make things clearer from the way the options are written or presented.

    What if, in a similar way to Aleo's suggestion (but less obtrusive), the options read:

    1. Tell Alette to go with Egil
    2. Shout "Not now Alette" and send her away.
    3. Convince Iver to let Alette and Egil stay and fight.


    And then after making your choice, Rook's dialogue follows the choice you made. So it's like you acted as the thought or will which you see followed after.

    I think this bridges the gap between the language/form, and makes the meaning clear!

  17. #57
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven2134 View Post
    I think this bridges the gap between the language/form, and makes the meaning clear!
    Indeed. It seems much better this way. After all, "words are wind" meaning that its actions that guide the threads in the pattern -- not intentions or phrases.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Wordplay's Avatar
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    Out of interest, I wonder how many new battle maps are included in the single player. We've already seen a couple, one in the playthrough, and another in the most recent Kotaku article.

  19. #59
    Superbacker quartex's Avatar
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    I would expect to single player to include MANY more battle maps. Whether there are 10, 20, 30 different maps, I don't know. I suppose it depends on the length of the game. But I'd expect to see a bunch of generic maps for random encounters that happen along the way and then a set of different maps for more important combats that occur as part of the main storyline.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by raven2134 View Post
    That's quite a useful analysis Antares. After mulling things over I think yea there could be a way to make things clearer from the way the options are written or presented.

    What if, in a similar way to Aleo's suggestion (but less obtrusive), the options read:

    1. Tell Alette to go with Egil
    2. Shout "Not now Alette" and send her away.
    3. Convince Iver to let Alette and Egil stay and fight.


    And then after making your choice, Rook's dialogue follows the choice you made. So it's like you acted as the thought or will which you see followed after.

    I think this bridges the gap between the language/form, and makes the meaning clear!
    Here's the thing that was troubling me. My presumption was that telling the chieftain about the attack is important, but the first choice gives no indicator that is the case. If I were playing, I'd be concerned that letting them fight meant that no warning got to the chieftain, and that this might have dire consequences.

    Having unintended consequences to an action is fine. But the player needs to understand what each choice is supposed to represent. If I'm right about telling the chieftain being important, then the first choice should read more along the lines of:

    "Alerting the chieftain is the most important thing you can do right now." And perhaps the third could say:
    "The chieftain surely knows. Let them fight."

    Also, why on earth would you chose the second option?
    Last edited by Banfilidh; 09-03-2013 at 10:11 AM.

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