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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Insane Viking Pack Pre-Order Now Available

  1. #41
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Personally, I was always going to buy the game as soon as it came out, so for me this pre-order pack is perfect!

    I do understand where Yellow is coming from - in principle I agree with the objections to day 1 DLC, but IMO little pre-order incentives are a different thing.
    (Even if Tryggvi was a potentially major character, if you want him just pay less & get him... ?)

  2. #42
    OK, now that that whole discussion has hopefully died down, I hope nobody minds if I reiterate my questions from page 1: Is there a way to order directly from Stoic? If not, which vendor is best in terms of how much of the purchase price makes it to the devs and also in terms of not having DRM?

  3. #43
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNutshell View Post
    s there a way to order directly from Stoic? If not, which vendor is best in terms of how much of the purchase price makes it to the devs and also in terms of not having DRM?
    Interesting questions; I'd like to know too. The GoG version (when will that appear?) should be DRM-free. In terms of % cut, I'm sure everything will be more or less the same. I mean, the absolute amount of money going to the devs will be the same while some retailers settle for lower profit.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #44
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Will have more on this soon (the other vendors).

  5. #45
    Senior Member Jorgensager's Avatar
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    I got distracted, so I haven't been on here since March.. then I noticed that the game is coming out soon, and I'm really looking forward to it!

    I know you finished this discussion already, but I would like to agree that it appears dishonest to make a completely useless character a selling point in an Insane Viking Pack for preorders, regardless of the intention. I.e. it makes Stoic appear dishonest when their intention is to reward preorders, and that the -20% + the tracks would have been sufficient and "cleaner" - that is, without the suspicion that there might be regular useless DLC like Tryggvi. Besides, a useless character isn't really a reward anyway, so if there are no ulterior motives, then I don't see the point.

    Please note that I'm not accusing Stoic of anything, but describing the impression it gives and concluding that it might have been a mistake.

    Good luck with the release!

  6. #46
    Senior Member Kuba's Avatar
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    I ask same question as Aleo, when will GoG version be available? I am also wondering why prices on Steam aren't equal? US version is about 20 % cheaper than EU and UK versions. I will buy the game no matter what, this just made me curious.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Jorgensager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba View Post
    I ask same question as Aleo, when will GoG version be available? I am also wondering why prices on Steam aren't equal? US version is about 20 % cheaper than EU and UK versions. I will buy the game no matter what, this just made me curious.
    This is the case for all games on Steam, so I would assume it's their business model to base prices on how much people are willing to pay. I.e. nothing to do with Stoic, and quite annoying for us since it's just a copy of a digital file. Oh well, I can afford it, so I'll just try to enjoy the game!

  8. #48
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgensager View Post
    This is the case for all games on Steam, so I would assume it's their business model to base prices on how much people are willing to pay. I.e. nothing to do with Stoic, and quite annoying for us since it's just a copy of a digital file. Oh well, I can afford it, so I'll just try to enjoy the game!
    Either that or some e-commerce/DRM/taxes policy that differs between the continents. Ask netnazgul how much does it cost in Steam/Belarus
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Jorgensager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    Either that or some e-commerce/DRM/taxes policy that differs between the continents. Ask netnazgul how much does it cost in Steam/Belarus
    Hm, fair enough, though from countries using neither $, or you pay in the currency Steam decides, which tends to be the most expensive one. Then again there could be "export" limitations.. but I wouldn't think so. It's interesting!

  10. #50
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgensager View Post
    Hm, fair enough, though from countries using neither $, or € you pay in the currency Steam decides, which tends to be the most expensive one. Then again there could be "export" limitations.. but I wouldn't think so. It's interesting!
    Actually, it is the other way around. If I am not mistaken, the full game (pre-order?) was like $12 over there!
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Jorgensager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    Actually, it is the other way around. If I am not mistaken, the full game (pre-order?) was like $12 over there!
    I'm a bit confused. Was it approx equivalent to $12 in Belarus? Because in the Steam shop it was around 18 or 19 (approx double of $12) which could be explained by typical purchasing power. When I said "from countries using neither ..." I actually only had one country in mind which is generally more expensive (Norway, and yes, I know that was unfortunate wording.. My bad!)... so surely it might seem they base it on how much people are willing (/able) to pay after all?

  12. #52
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgensager View Post
    I know you finished this discussion already, but I would like to agree that it appears dishonest to make a completely useless character a selling point in an Insane Viking Pack for preorders, regardless of the intention. I.e. it makes Stoic appear dishonest when their intention is to reward preorders, and that the -20% + the tracks would have been sufficient and "cleaner" - that is, without the suspicion that there might be regular useless DLC like Tryggvi. Besides, a useless character isn't really a reward anyway, so if there are no ulterior motives, then I don't see the point.

    Please note that I'm not accusing Stoic of anything, but describing the impression it gives and concluding that it might have been a mistake.
    I think the reason people often dislike these sort of things is because it can feel like they are being ripped off, or being milked for as much money as possible from greedy companies.

    In this case, the pre-order pack is also at a discounted price! So although it is beneficial for Stoic to receive as many pre-orders as possible, it is being offered as a mutually beneficial arrangement which is clearly not taking advantage of the fans...

  13. #53
    Senior Member Jorgensager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveboof View Post
    I think the reason people often dislike these sort of things is because it can feel like they are being ripped off, or being milked for as much money as possible from greedy companies.

    In this case, the pre-order pack is also at a discounted price! So although it is beneficial for Stoic to receive as many pre-orders as possible, it is being offered as a mutually beneficial arrangement which is clearly not taking advantage of the fans...
    The game is (likely) well worth the money be it by preorder or post-release purchase for the art, gameplay and story, so it had no impact on my decision. In my opinion, they would have been better off emphasising these aspects to imply that the game is different, as opposed to giving the impression that they are preparing the industry-standard hidden-costs-DLC-hell (because I don't think that's the case). My point was that it makes Stoic appear worse than they are, and might have been a mistake independent of their intentions since it could scare people away.

    The discount is a decent incentive to preorder (in addition to how awesomely promising the game looks!), while the additional* content has been stated to be irrelevant for the game experience, hence seems slightly dishonest as part of the Insane Viking Pack. Additionally the restriction of this irrelevant content to people who buy the game post-release seems rather pointless.. and if they proceed to release it as DLC later, they will definitely lose some respect with me, but I'm not going to make that assumption! I just wanted to point it out so that they could refrain from it in the future.

    * It's obviously not really additional since it is ready on release, i.e. rather a restriction on the post-release version (which, to repeat myself, I find counter-productive).

  14.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #54
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Hmm, I dunno guys. You can comment about it as you like I suppose. Stoic basically gave people more content for cheaper, period. It's been generally strange that people have been reacting to this in non-happy ways (lol). I think we should be encouraging good practice/examples, rather than sticking bad rep from bad examples into something done well/obviously not to gimp anyone.

    Just saying, this discussion hasn't exactly been encouraging/supportive of what Stoic did right, just how the game industry is wrong...

  15. #55
    Superbacker netnazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven2134 View Post
    Hmm, I dunno guys. You can comment about it as you like I suppose. Stoic basically gave people more content for cheaper, period. It's been generally strange that people have been reacting to this in non-happy ways (lol). I think we should be encouraging good practice/examples, rather than sticking bad rep from bad examples into something done well/obviously not to gimp anyone.
    it is assumed that some people will not be happy when after release they won't be able to get Tryggvi through purchase, so some people are aggravated by this fact in advance
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  16. #56
    Senior Member Yellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven2134 View Post
    Stoic basically gave people more content for cheaper, period. It's been generally strange that people have been reacting to this in non-happy ways (lol). I think we should be encouraging good practice/examples, rather than sticking bad rep from bad examples into something done well/obviously not to gimp anyone.

    Just saying, this discussion hasn't exactly been encouraging/supportive of what Stoic did right, just how the game industry is wrong...
    selected people, while alienating the rest...

    but this is sadly not one of those

    This is sadly not the case, otherwise people would not be "complaining"

    Anyways, for the most part you are right raven! People(including me) are a bit of a foul for specting stoic to be different than your everyday developer, different than lets say Bioware, in this industry with its low standards and bad business practices, we are fouls to believe than an small indie team would do things different.

    I guess we will just have to get used to the idea than CDPR is unique and nobody is gonna ever learn from them.
    "Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"

  17. #57
    I think that this is being blown out of proportion for what it is. Yellow you are being very negative about the whole thing, it really isn't worth the amount of time spent on this discussion if you ask me. That said I am also not a fan of DLC that could be included from the get-go being offered as exclusives to pre-order or what have you. Usually in the case of a game sold in pieces I simply will not buy it until it is either bundled into a complete package or very heavily discounted. In either case the vendor is receiving less income than they would have had they simply put everything in at the beginning. In this case however, while I do not agree with the choice made by Stoic in principle, I think it is not so damaging as many other methods of this particular practice.
    Last edited by Veringatorix; 12-20-2013 at 05:58 AM.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Yellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veringatorix View Post
    I think that this is being blown out of proportion for what it is. In this case however, while I do not agree with the choice made by Stoic in principle, I think it is not so damaging as many other methods of this particular practice.
    I will not argue with you on that, maybe we are making to much fuss about it, true. Maybe it is not as damaging/as bad as other companies do, true!
    But in my book, "less bad" is not good, it is still bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by Veringatorix View Post
    Yellow you are being very negative about the whole thing, it really isn't worth the amount of time spent on this discussion if you ask me.
    I will not argue on that neither, but it is because i care about this game and about the company that is making it, that i talk.

    I have seen many good companies(Bioware, Maxis, Creative Assambly) and game series(Total War, Mass Effect, Company of Heroes, The Sims, Warhammer 40k, Dragon Age) that i loved, ruined because of this, and while this particular issue is somewhat tiny, remember that everything bad, begins with something small, as The Boss's song says, "you can't start a fire without a spark"
    Last edited by Yellow; 12-20-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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  19. #59
    Senior Member Jorgensager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven2134 View Post
    Hmm, I dunno guys. You can comment about it as you like I suppose. Stoic basically gave people more content for cheaper, period. It's been generally strange that people have been reacting to this in non-happy ways (lol). I think we should be encouraging good practice/examples, rather than sticking bad rep from bad examples into something done well/obviously not to gimp anyone.

    Just saying, this discussion hasn't exactly been encouraging/supportive of what Stoic did right, just how the game industry is wrong...
    It's hardly additional content when it's ready and implemented on release; it only restricts the post-release version, which is the industry-standard I think should be avoided. Good practice is also encouraged by pointing out the mistakes; it's a word of caution because I want them to do well.

    Besides, it's obviously a lot easier to be critical than constructive, which is why we focus on that. That said, I have tried to be constructive by saying why I think it is a mistake and mentioning the things I think they have done right (pretty much everything else, which includes creating what promises to be an awesome game). It's hard to come up with alternative incentives since the game looks so great that it's more than sufficient incentive in itself.

    The discount and tracks is generosity (i.e. good incentives), the content may be good intentions but inevitably clutters things.

    Quote Originally Posted by netnazgul View Post
    it is assumed that some people will not be happy when after release they won't be able to get Tryggvi through purchase, so some people are aggravated by this fact in advance
    Funny because it's true! I don't want it to cause problems for Stoic since they seem to have done everything (else) right.

  20. #60
    Backer Slimsy Platypus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    I have seen many good companies(Bioware, Maxis, Creative Assambly) and game series(Total War, Mass Effect, Company of Heroes, The Sims, Warhammer 40k, Dragon Age) that i loved, ruined because of this, and while this particular issue is somewhat tiny, remember that everything bad, begins with something small, as The Boss's song says, "you can't start a fire without a spark"
    Yellow / Jorgensager - I now understand the argument of why the pre-order system can be bad when developers use it as a tool to get people to pay more money on their games that they may not have gotten it otherwise after reading a review. Regardless if we agree that it's a bad business practice, I do not understand why it is an issue specifically in this case: Stoic is trying to reward followers of the game INCLUDING non kickstarters, by DECREASING the price on the pre-order which (from my understanding) will nullify most anti-preorder arguments (they obviously aren't out to take more money from anxious gamer's pockets). Yet, here they have been labeled as "dishonest", using "bad business practices", "bad", and guility of "alienating" players.

    Simply for my understanding and to keep the conversation constructive: can you explain to me why in this instance, Stoic's preorder is "dishonest", "bad business practice" or just "bad". For me personally, I see it as a way for them to reward those that have followed the game closely, but have not been able to participate in the Kickstarter. Why is providing a $5.00 discount, and an additional non-essential character alienating players? (is it because you feel like you can't preorder because most preorders are bad, although this one might not be?)

    I seriously don't understand how this is dishonest or bad business practice. Can you help me understand why?
    Last edited by Slimsy Platypus; 12-20-2013 at 10:20 AM.

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