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Thread: Any way to save Egil?

  1. #41
    Junior Member nom's Avatar
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    If you leave Frostvellr without both Ekkill and Onef, the mutiny will not happen.

  2. #42
    Junior Member Senta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nom View Post
    If you leave Frostvellr without both Ekkill and Onef, the mutiny will not happen.
    oh, so Ekkil can be a betrayer as well? shame...

    btw, in chapter 1 Tryggvi warns Rook about trusting men wearing helmets (forgot how the first line goes, but when Rook asks him whether he should trust him, mad Tryg replies: come on Rook, am I wearing a HELMET?)... incidentally, the only human fighters wearing a helmet, are Onef and Ekkil!
    Last edited by Senta; 01-18-2014 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #43
    Backer Mierko's Avatar
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    Is there a way to get Ekkill but not Onef in your party?

    I am on my second play and I confronted the cart and defeated Onef.

    After the gate battle I selected "We will join you for now" and entered the city with Ekkill.

    It seems that once you are on the road after the city Ekkill really only wants to track you down if Onef is with you. Kind of a shame. I really wanted to try him out this time since he was on the bench in my first play. I like the idea of maxing his strength giving him the +3 strength item and letting him do a crazy high damage AOE knockback on a bunch of Dredge.

  4. #44
    i confirm if you punch him out and dont take them egil doesnt die

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Senta View Post
    btw, in chapter 1 Tryggvi warns Rook about trusting men wearing helmets (forgot how the first line goes, but when Rook asks him whether he should trust him, mad Tryg replies: come on Rook, am I wearing a HELMET?)... incidentally, the only human fighters wearing a helmet, are Onef and Ekkil!
    Good catch!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Shady314 View Post
    Somewhat off topic. It is an incredibly disappointing scene. I had to make a lot of hard choices between renown and food and whether I had enough uninjured people to risk a hard fight or should I run away and get no renown? Felt like real organic choices. As well every death before that you either see coming and/or made sense and I was thinking well done Stoic well done.
    Then this scene is wham! straight out of left field with no build up at all. That is terrible writing. Sorry but it is. The Red Wedding wouldn't work if GRRM had done it like that. It was a natural culmination of Robb's poor choices. Here it is just scripted failure because DARK fantasy right? right?
    Quote Originally Posted by mindflare77 View Post
    So, Onef=mutiny, period? That... Seems really off. Everything else in the game so far has been great, and at least reasonable. But Onef flipping and deciding "lolno, I don't like strangers! Except you guys who've saved me so far!" and killing folks is just too out of the blue, especially for there to not be a way to counter it. The entire dialogue tree before it is irrelevant, it just happens? Not to mention, in-game, Onef is next to useless for me; I've never touched him, whereas Egil is Rank 4 and Odd is Rank 3... It just fails to make sense on any level. Even other choices where a character dies, I don't feel that I've been cheated out of it, but this one just leaves a really sour taste in my mouth.
    I strongly agree with these two posts. I just finished the game, and this event was by far the worst gameplay/narrative misstep in the game. Not only are the conversation choices with Onef in that scene irrelevant, every other choice in the game other than choosing to accept Onef into your party or not is irrelevant. That is pretty bad design. And from a story standpoint, it's pretty bizarre. When my Gunnalf died early in the game, I was surprised but I accepted it, I had stubbornly tried to save the caravan full of gold instead of telling him to let go, and it cost me. Here, it's just "Onef is actually the most evil son of a bitch in your party and he's gonna stab you in the gut and try to rape your daughter." Whatever.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Kletian999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatesleeper View Post
    I strongly agree with these two posts. I just finished the game, and this event was by far the worst gameplay/narrative misstep in the game. Not only are the conversation choices with Onef in that scene irrelevant, every other choice in the game other than choosing to accept Onef into your party or not is irrelevant. That is pretty bad design. And from a story standpoint, it's pretty bizarre. When my Gunnalf died early in the game, I was surprised but I accepted it, I had stubbornly tried to save the caravan full of gold instead of telling him to let go, and it cost me. Here, it's just "Onef is actually the most evil son of a bitch in your party and he's gonna stab you in the gut and try to rape your daughter." Whatever.

    The conversation is not about getting Onef back on your side; nor is it about how many other people you've had join the caravan. Onef was the real evil bastard in Frostvellr and he joined your caravan solely for the purpose of seizing power. The conversation before was to give Rook and the player a sense of doubt and dread (Things have gotten crazy, I've positioned my men to replace you, and now I'm tired of pretending to follow you")

    The point of the event is to highlight how some people are really evil, even in the face of a great common threat they'll seek out what benefits them, AND they don't always look like crazy serial killers or have scary names (looking at you Ek-kill). The denoument with Alette asking "can you trust again" is extremely powerful.

  8. #48
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Personally, I found Ekkill to be the least feasible character in the game simply because of his Onef story line.

    Onef killed his sister and Ekkill vows brutal murderous revenge, but over time just let it it go?! Completely at odds with his ability and personality...

  9. #49
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveboof View Post
    Personally, I found Ekkill to be the least feasible character in the game simply because of his Onef story line. Onef killed his sister and Ekkill vows brutal murderous revenge, but over time just let it it go?! Completely at odds with his ability and personality...
    I agree. Ekkill's back-story could have been better "framed", especially his lenient relationship with Onef. For instance, it could be so that Onef knew some deadly secret (e.g. Ekkill had raped/murdered somebody, and Onef had helped him hide it), and that's how he "held" Ekkill.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Kletian999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    I agree. Ekkill's back-story could have been better "framed", especially his lenient relationship with Onef. For instance, it could be so that Onef knew some deadly secret (e.g. Ekkill had raped/murdered somebody, and Onef had helped him hide it), and that's how he "held" Ekkill.
    Ekkill said he couldn't bring himself to kill Onef partly because the bounds of kin, and partly because, after being a complicit minion so long trying to get the chance to kill him, he became the mask.

  11. #51
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    I agree. Ekkill's back-story could have been better "framed", especially his lenient relationship with Onef. For instance, it could be so that Onef knew some deadly secret (e.g. Ekkill had raped/murdered somebody, and Onef had helped him hide it), and that's how he "held" Ekkill.
    Yeah, anything like that would at least make it more likely that the devious & cruel Onef would even keep Ekkill around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kletian999 View Post
    Ekkill said he couldn't bring himself to kill Onef partly because the bounds of kin, and partly because, after being a complicit minion so long trying to get the chance to kill him, he became the mask.
    Pretty weak sauce IMO! It's just not likely given his portrayed character...

  12. #52
    Superbacker Lightshear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveboof View Post
    Pretty weak sauce IMO! It's just not likely given his portrayed character...
    That's exactly what made the story so powerful! I'll agree that I would have preferred more build-up for Onef, more conversations, maybe having him working his way into Rook's confidence and establishing himself within the caravan leading up to his betrayal, but the resolution of that betrayal was beautiful.

    Here is Ekkil: the mad dog, the wild-man, the brutal killer with a hair trigger, and he was tamed into a lapdog by Onef. He tried to get close to the man for revenge, and by degrees was slowly changed. Who knows what Ekkil was like before Onef changed him? Maybe his madness was an outward expression of his internal rage, his fury at the impotence of his revenge. He both hated and needed Onef, and that cognitive dissonance broke his sanity. It could have taken years, maybe a decade or more, but it happened. It speaks both to Onef's incredible powers of persuasion and control, and Ekkil's weakness and tragedy.

    The last talk with Ekkil was one of my favorite conversations in the game.

  13. #53
    Junior Member litonkrl's Avatar
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    Hello I tried with your Idea it had worked. Thank you for your advise.

  14. #54
    I experimented a bit with the Onef-Ekkil-Egil dilemma.

    I believe I have tried out most possible combinations and by now I am 99% certain that there is no loophole:

    • If you take Onef into your caravan there will be a mutiny. It is impossible to prevent it.
    • The conversation options with Onef prior to him starting his killing spree are completely irrelevant. The conversation progresses exactly the same way regardless of what you say.
    • The trigger for Onef's rebellion is solely his presence in your caravan. It isn't influenced by earlier acts towards Ekkil. Neither is it dependant on morale of the caravan, food supply, a random factor or any other element I can think of.
    • Therefore it is a very simple matter: if you take Onef in, you should also take Ekkil (his special ability is pretty good!). But in doing so you will lose Egil for the final fights of the game. This is most likely a bad trade: Egil is with you from the start and will likely have gotten some kills allowing him to level up. Moreover his special ability makes him the best damage soaker in the entire game. A rank 5 Egil can laugh off the attacks of a 22 strength Dredge!

  15. #55
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colleteral_Skystrike View Post
    ...if you take Onef in, you should also take Ekkil (his special ability is pretty good!). But in doing so you will lose Egil for the final fights of the game. This is most likely a bad trade...
    I agree.

    The main thing that makes Onef's deal a little sweeter is the extra supplies he gives you access to (storehouse in Frostvelr). Those supplies are almost indispensable if you wanna keep your caravan starvation-free and high-morale...
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  16. #56
    Superbacker Lightshear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6u5 View Post
    I must have done something much different than all of ya'll, Onef is the one that betrayed me and Ekkil ended up being a decent person. Nvm, think i just misunderstood some of the posts.
    It does get confusing the way some people are explaining it. Onef is the only traitor, but you can only get Ekkil if you also take Onef, so if you have Ekkil in your party then the mutiny will definitely happen (even though he isn't the one who does it himself).

  17. #57
    I hear all these complaints about "not being warned in advance" and the mutiny happening "completely out of nowhere".
    Now, leaving aside the fact that plot twists are best when surprising, and not when everybody can see them coming from miles away...

    You guys DID talk to Tryggvi at the beginning of the game, didn't you?
    He told you not to trust men just because they have faces and voices (or something along those lines)... and that a man will stare at you through his helmet and lie to you / betray you... and when you ask him if he's gonna betray you, he mocks you because you can't seem to realize he's not wearing any helmet, so he's OBVIOUSLY not going to betray you, you doofus!
    There's your warning and foreshadowing, RIGHT THERE!
    You just ignored his warning 'cause you thought he was crazy...
    Poor Tryggvi, nobody takes him seriously. :P

    But no, seriously... I'm fine with not getting CRAZY HELMET GUY (the backbiter) to join my caravan, but is there a way to get only CRAZY EYE GUY (the grudgewielder)?

  18. #58
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlin82 View Post
    I hear all these complaints about "not being warned in advance" and the mutiny happening "completely out of nowhere".
    Now, leaving aside the fact that plot twists are best when surprising, and not when everybody can see them coming from miles away...

    You guys DID talk to Tryggvi at the beginning of the game, didn't you?
    He told you not to trust men just because they have faces and voices (or something along those lines)... and that a man will stare at you through his helmet and lie to you / betray you... and when you ask him if he's gonna betray you, he mocks you because you can't seem to realize he's not wearing any helmet, so he's OBVIOUSLY not going to betray you, you doofus!
    There's your warning and foreshadowing, RIGHT THERE!
    You just ignored his warning 'cause you thought he was crazy...
    Poor Tryggvi, nobody takes him seriously. :P

    But no, seriously... I'm fine with not getting CRAZY HELMET GUY (the backbiter) to join my caravan, but is there a way to get only CRAZY EYE GUY (the grudgewielder)?
    Yeah, I noticed that too. However, both Onef and Ekkill wear helmets so... Perhaps Tryg's advice is to be rid with both of those guys
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  19. #59
    Superbacker Lightshear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlin82 View Post
    I hear all these complaints about "not being warned in advance" and the mutiny happening "completely out of nowhere".
    Now, leaving aside the fact that plot twists are best when surprising, and not when everybody can see them coming from miles away...

    You guys DID talk to Tryggvi at the beginning of the game, didn't you?
    He told you not to trust men just because they have faces and voices (or something along those lines)... and that a man will stare at you through his helmet and lie to you / betray you... and when you ask him if he's gonna betray you, he mocks you because you can't seem to realize he's not wearing any helmet, so he's OBVIOUSLY not going to betray you, you doofus!
    There's your warning and foreshadowing, RIGHT THERE!
    You just ignored his warning 'cause you thought he was crazy...
    Poor Tryggvi, nobody takes him seriously. :P

    But no, seriously... I'm fine with not getting CRAZY HELMET GUY (the backbiter) to join my caravan, but is there a way to get only CRAZY EYE GUY (the grudgewielder)?
    That's fine for the people who got Tryggvi - but he's only available in the special edition. Anybody who bought only the normal edition didn't get him, and so didn't get his extremely vague, not at all obvious hint. Myself, I didn't notice that part of his wild ramblings until my second playthrough.

    And sadly no, you cannot get Ekkil without Onef. Sucks. I really like the wild-eyed madman, but also really like the sweet-hearted raidmaster. Yet it is impossible to end the game with both Ekkil and Egil. Which, perhaps, makes it easier on the caravan leaders in terms of not mixing up people's names.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    both Onef and Ekkill wear helmets so...
    Oh, but only one of them can stare at you THROUGH his helmet, can he?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightshear View Post
    his extremely vague, not at all obvious hint.
    Haven't we covered this already?
    plot twists are best when surprising, and not when everybody can see them coming from miles away...
    Yup, I believe we have.

    Besides, special edition or not, Tryggvi's advice is not even needed.
    You are the leader of a caravan that carries hundreds of people, the situation is grim, everybody lost their homes and relatives and are starving, and many of them carry weapons.
    It's not a matter of "if", but a matter of "when" somebody will mutiny.

    And yeah, once you get the traitor in your team, there is no way to save Egil anymore... but then again, it's the same with the first scene... you could shout at your daughter, or you could rush, or you could shoot at the monster... either way there is no guarantee that everybody is getting out of it alive. That's the BEAUTY of this game.
    And seeing how many times Egil can die, and seeing how there's an achievement to keep him alive, he's just a guy who's MEANT to die, unless you're extremely lucky.

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