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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: The Banner Saga Mysteries and Unresolved plots List!

  1. #61
    omg it just came to me, what if the female varl where Huldr? https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulder

  2. #62
    Junior Member Corvino's Avatar
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    I think rofltehcat may have a point about the Serpent and Niddhoggr, the serpent/dragon that gnaws at the root of Yggdrasil the World Tree in Norse Mythology. Niddhoggr has been seen as a possible herald of Ragnarok, a vast battle between the Gods in which the world is at the same time destroyed and remade. Ragnarok is often understood as some kind of "end-of-the-world" or Apocalyptic scenario which would fit well the what we know of the Banner Saga.

    During Ragnarok the various Gods, Giants and Monsters fight and many are killed. The ground splits and sinks beneath the sea, only to re-emerge new and fertile at the end of the battles.

    However there are a lot of key events prophesied about Ragnarok - most of which involve Gods. If all the Gods are dead then how can they play out their roles in the Prophesy/Saga? Could this be the source of the Serpent's confusion?

    Other parallels between Ragnarok and the Banner Saga:
    1) A race of Fire Giants (?Dredge) will invade, their leader is called Surtr (?Sundr).
    2) Jormungandr, another great serpent/dragon, will battle Thor leading to both of their deaths. Jormungar in some sources causes the land to breach (the serpent breaking mountains?).
    3) Wikipedia says the Poetic Edda mentions the Sun becoming black and the stars disappearing. There is also mention of the wolf Fenrir eating the sun. Could this relate to the coming darkness?
    4) Standard end-of-the world type stuff. Brother killing brother, no man will have mercy on another, a wind age, a sword age etc.

    TL;DR version: I think there are strong parallels between Ragnarok and the events of the Banner Saga so far, but we may need the Gods to get involved for the world to end and be reborn as it should.

  3. #63
    Backer balnoisi's Avatar
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    good summary Corvino. most of that mythology serves as inspiration to TBS, but i wouldn't be surprised if they tweak most of it, so we can expect events and characters to take different directions i am sure.

  4. #64
    Senior Member roder's Avatar
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    some other ones that I think should be considered:

    -the old man event, you take him into your caravan, and afterwards another event occurs where he increases your supplies and disappears (I think he was some God in disguise, but that is my own theory)

    -the Dredge and the God they worship, what is the relationship, did the silver have any magical properties, is Bellower really tricked into thinking he was dead. will we see him rise again in Chapter 2
    -also what is the relationship with Dredge and serpent, when they first saw it at the Iver vs Bellower encounter they were also bowing to it

    -Since either Rook or Alette is dead in chapter 1 (depending on your choice), will we see them in chapter 2 as the main characters, or will the focus shift entirely to another set of characters (Iver, Hakon, Mogr) or even new character parties

    -Will keeping Egil alive be an ongoing challenge throughout chapter 2 and 3 xD haha this is for my own personal amusement

  5. #65
    Junior Member CSRosewood's Avatar
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    In case it wasn't mention yet, the Frost child doesn't have the ability to sense Dredge. In fact, I believe her prior experience which leaves her stranded and dying along with a slew of corpses is a result of a Dredge encounter. When she is talking, she is trying to warn Rook of the dredge encampment she knows exist down the road but her poor speech bars her with an audio means to do so. She says, "Edj. Edj. Edj." Looks like gibberish the first time I saw it but after reading it out load a couple of times it dawns on me, 'edj' sounds a lot like 'dredge' if you remove the 'dr' at the beginning. It's probably because she's too young to have master proper pronunciation.

  6. #66
    Junior Member CSRosewood's Avatar
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    And as far as Bellower and the other Sundr. Bellower is a Sundr but not all Sundr are immortal as implied when Bellower first shows up, and is described as "... the immortal one." I would quote the entire sentience but I'm not 100% certain as to it's exact wording, it goes more along the lines of this, "Of all the Sundr that could have shown up, why the immortal one?" Which implies that Bellower is immortal but also implies that other Sundr aren't necessarily defined with this trait. Whether 'the immortal one' is a singular, meaning Bellower is the only immortal, or a broad description referring to those that are immortal which still isolates a group of Sundr as having this trait. I can not determine if it is one or the other yet. In fact I'm not certain that the word Sundr is used in that exact moment but the context of the sentience I'm quoting is in context of Sundrs.

  7. #67
    Junior Member Corvino's Avatar
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    I just had an interesting find browsing the Something Awful thread on The Banner Saga. One of the Devs is posting using the username Chewbot, and has a couple of interesting things to say. Regarding why people think the Gods are dead:

    "It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."

  8. #68
    Backer angelcatano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvino View Post
    I just had an interesting find browsing the Something Awful thread on The Banner Saga. One of the Devs is posting using the username Chewbot, and has a couple of interesting things to say. Regarding why people think the Gods are dead:

    "It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."
    As I said in a post before, the serpent tells Juno something like "The gods are silent and before me stands one who knows not what they have done", this makes me wonder if they are ereally dead, or maybe, in preparation for Ragnarok(ish) they have stopped communicating with the beings on the world.

    Also: Playing I noticed some Varl Infants/Younglings in the Bridge, which could give a clue of how long have the gods been missing, probably not for too long


  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvino View Post
    I think rofltehcat may have a point about the Serpent and Niddhoggr, the serpent/dragon that gnaws at the root of Yggdrasil the World Tree in Norse Mythology. Niddhoggr has been seen as a possible herald of Ragnarok, a vast battle between the Gods in which the world is at the same time destroyed and remade. Ragnarok is often understood as some kind of "end-of-the-world" or Apocalyptic scenario which would fit well the what we know of the Banner Saga.

    During Ragnarok the various Gods, Giants and Monsters fight and many are killed. The ground splits and sinks beneath the sea, only to re-emerge new and fertile at the end of the battles.

    However there are a lot of key events prophesied about Ragnarok - most of which involve Gods. If all the Gods are dead then how can they play out their roles in the Prophesy/Saga? Could this be the source of the Serpent's confusion?

    Other parallels between Ragnarok and the Banner Saga:
    1) A race of Fire Giants (?Dredge) will invade, their leader is called Surtr (?Sundr).
    2) Jormungandr, another great serpent/dragon, will battle Thor leading to both of their deaths. Jormungar in some sources causes the land to breach (the serpent breaking mountains?).
    3) Wikipedia says the Poetic Edda mentions the Sun becoming black and the stars disappearing. There is also mention of the wolf Fenrir eating the sun. Could this relate to the coming darkness?
    4) Standard end-of-the world type stuff. Brother killing brother, no man will have mercy on another, a wind age, a sword age etc.

    TL;DR version: I think there are strong parallels between Ragnarok and the events of the Banner Saga so far, but we may need the Gods to get involved for the world to end and be reborn as it should.
    This was probably the inspiration and my guess is that the serpent was supposed to bring Ragnarok, but the gods died and the darkness beat her to it =) Just want to known why!

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvino View Post
    I just had an interesting find browsing the Something Awful thread on The Banner Saga. One of the Devs is posting using the username Chewbot, and has a couple of interesting things to say. Regarding why people think the Gods are dead:

    "It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."
    Now I REALLY wanna see a CG scene of the gods dying! Hope we get lots of flashbacks to this scenes. Speaking of the devs, they are awfully quite. Anyone has any words regarding the future of the game? Did it go well in sales so the devs have more money for chpater 2 and such?

  11. #71
    Superbacker Surtr's Avatar
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    The gods may be silent, but that doesn't mean they are dead. That whole darkness thing is probably somehow related to the silence of the gods. It seems to me that the serpent has very limited knowledge, like it really has only one purpose for its existence, the devouring of the world, and the spreading darkness has made it almost as confused as the mortals are about the situation. In any case, fascinating stuff! Hard to wait for the sequel.

  12. #72
    It has been mentioned but no one has posted a proof so far, so let me do it:

  13. #73
    Backer balnoisi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guest #10358 View Post
    It has been mentioned but no one has posted a proof so far, so let me do it:
    angelcatano posted a screen capture just four messages before yours. perhaps it does not display but you can open it in a browser tab. anyway you really wanted it to be seen right ?

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by balnoisi View Post
    angelcatano posted a screen capture just four messages before yours. perhaps it does not display but you can open it in a browser tab. anyway you really wanted it to be seen right ?
    Sorry, I didn't see that, it's not opening. And yeah, I really wanted it to be seen, because I couldn't believe my eyes when the varl-kid suddenly appeared. Nothing more than a small detail on the side, something you usually wouldn't notice.

  15. #75
    Backer angelcatano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guest #10358 View Post
    Sorry, I didn't see that, it's not opening. And yeah, I really wanted it to be seen, because I couldn't believe my eyes when the varl-kid suddenly appeared. Nothing more than a small detail on the side, something you usually wouldn't notice.
    Hahaha, yeah, seems to be the same background think I saw some others in the bridge as well besides the one that I screen capped. Also saw some humans amongst the varl warriors, but guess that's not as exciting as a varlbarn (my norse language-based word for varl infant ... my other suggestion is ungvarl )

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by angelcatano View Post
    Hahaha, yeah, seems to be the same background think I saw some others in the bridge as well besides the one that I screen capped. Also saw some humans amongst the varl warriors, but guess that's not as exciting as a varlbarn (my norse language-based word for varl infant ... my other suggestion is ungvarl )
    Hah! Had to register just to compliment you on the names. Both sound right and have amazing connotations. In fact, ungvarl was so good that I took it as a username, even though I am neither very young nor a bachelor. varlbarn is especially appropriate as it kind of sounds like varlborn, which would make sense to non-nordic audiences.

  17. #77
    On the topic of Sundr:
    I remember Juno mentioning that the Valke(Valka?) and the Sundr are somewhat similar. The Valke, though, can die of old age and new ones are born. The Sundr don't die of old age and (thus) grow stronger with time, but there can't be anymore of them.
    There's some stuff about them only showing up in the second Dredge war, which makes me wonder where they came from in relation to the other Dredge (who are implied to be born).

    Also how freakish is it that Bellower is apparently immortal to the point that the metal with which gods killed each other can only hurt it and all they can do is trick him into thinking he can be killed.

    In regards to the dreams of Hakon and Mogr: That's Juno's doing, no doubt. I think it's mentioned that this is a power that the Valke can have.

    When Iver tells Alette to stop being Alette for a while, I thought it was either to get her to return to Boersgard (rather than her trying to vainly help her father, right there) or as to imply to start mourning her father.

  18. #78
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poison_Berrie View Post
    In regards to the dreams of Hakon and Mogr: That's Juno's doing, no doubt.
    I'd like to note that Juno's mantle is made of black-raven feathers. The raven-motif is also used in the iconic title-screen of the game.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  19. #79
    Junior Member Pies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvino View Post
    "It'll probably be addressed a little more in the future but yup, they literally saw them dying up in the stars. In weird norse fashion it probably looked like constellations moving and winking out, falling and crashing into the earth. Then they couldn't speak to them any more and they no longer appeared walking the world."
    On the map, the interactive symbol representing the constellations in the upper-left corner tells us that before the gods went silent, the constellations could be interpreted as shapes representing the various gods. After the gods became silent, the constellations were nothing more than a mix of stars with no patterns. This would have been confirmed by people who had lived through the transition, both Varl and Man alike.

    I'm wondering if the great serpent isn't an aspect of the sun god, but was instead imprisoned/created by the gods and released upon their deaths. It seems to imply that it's simply a tool with a predetermined purpose, especially with the "you do not know what the gods have done" line, as if it was deliberately sent to consume the tapestry of the world.

  20.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #80
    Art Director Arnie's Avatar
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    This is the most fascinating thread I've ever read on the site. It's really cool to read about your theories, both correct and incorrect. When they are incorrect I learn a lot about why you think the way you do and understand it now.
    I won't weigh in on any of this, but think once chapter 3 is complete a full book disclosing the world of The Banner Saga could be a cool project.
    Clue: You're only "scratching the surface" of the fiction.

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