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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: The Banner Saga Mysteries and Unresolved plots List!

  1. #101
    Junior Member danisab's Avatar
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    I tried to post once but it seems like it didn't come through.

    I think these speculations are great. The part I liked the most from the game was the setting/plot after all. One thing I haven't seem being mentioned is about the tapestry, the snake and the menders. We know that the Snake said to Juno it was supposed to eat the tapestry of the world but atm is unable to do so since the Sun stopped. We've seem some theories regarding the Gods and what may have been their role in all of this. But what is this tapestry? If I'm not mistaken, when you talk with Eyvind about his powers he says he does so by manipulating the tapestry of the world and that he is special in doing that. So, what exactly is that? Is it the "fountain" of magic? The very fabric of reality in a string theory? Why the Snake can't eat it while Eyvind seems to be able to still manipulate it? His lightning arc animation seems to also involve strings in some way. Maybe the darkness or whatever the dredge are running from explains this?^

    Secondly, about the snake: I think the Loom Mother has a bigger part in all of this. Why we haven't been to her Godstone? These were made by the Gods - as implied in game. Is she "banished"? Also, it wouldn't be the first time a creator God wants to destroy its creations. Happened all the time lol Could the Snake be her harbinger of destruction? It also seems that the game is making numerous references to Ragnarok (races being in the brink of extinction, gods going down, world devourer snake et al). Is there any new parallels we could make?

    About the Gods; I think they are, indeed, dead. But I also think they're coming back from the dead. It's not unusual to hear about underworlds where the Dead inhabit in mythologies. Even Gods can go there, after all. The Titans in greek myths, Hel in to the Norse, Osiris, etc. The Gods could be dead but also be actively trying to come back to life. That may explain why the Godstones still show signs of "divine power". These could be conduits to these Gods powers and still "work" even though they have fallen. Because these seems ominous tips that they aren't gone for good. And the snake - which keep popping up in my text - said she was talking to Juno - who thought the Gods dead - someone who has no idea of what they have done. Why's that? Is she ignorant of what caused their death or is she oblivious to the true nature of what happened? If the person who said the thing about "gods falling down from the sky" is really a dev and is to be trusted, this could lead us to the plane of existence were the bearer of the silver arrow went to. We seemed to be in a place in which stars were really prominent. But, as said, I do think they are dead. Especially since the people of the world seem pretty confident about it.

    "Clue: You're only "scratching the surface" of the fiction." Arnie said that not long ago in this thread. I think this is another 'clue' into going downwards AKA hel. The Gods have, indeed, fallen from the stars. They are now in the Depths, where the dead 'live'. There are water spirits. And we've seem that there's an afterlife on this universe. Especially since nor Rook/Alette did something special. They were dead and seemed to reach the next life in the boat, as everyone who was properly sent off. And about the theories of rook being sent because he will come back to Alette in any way: I think that this was only regarding going to the Godstone, when Juno said she choose him just in the case of things going awry; he would find his way back to the city to go on with the plan. Not necessarily t he would come back from the dead. She didn't even imply that Rook could be dead from the shooting.

    About the Dredge: Aren't they kinda human? It seems that they have a "biological" body behind their armor, or at the very least, a face.

    And the think that intrigues me the most - must be my Iberian side: I'm pretty sure we don't know about lots of places from the World. In the map, south to the Horseborne lands, the landmass extends itself to unknown legends. Also, what about the item Calabilla? It states that this is foreign, and its motifs and execution seem very meso-american to me. Could it be overseas? After all no one came from "the other side" of the ocean yet. And I don't think this could be somewhere from the lands we known. Then, what does this means? The whole thing must be going down there too. And Meso-american cultures also had a lots of snakes.

    After all, I think Mother Loom will play a really big role in the coming chapters. She is the creator force of life and the world, and it seems to be fading away. She is suspiciously deprived of a Godstone so far, which usually reveal some interesting aspect on the nature of these Gods. And Unnar could be Banner Saga's own Tom Bombadil!

  2. #102
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Very nice theory-crafting danisab We'll see how close to the mark they hit, when the trilogy is concluded and all that there is to be said is revealed! I am gonna comment/expand on some of your points:

    Loom Mother & Tapestry: The thread/pattern/tapestry motif is quite common in fiction (and religion) as a means to simplify the meanings of 'fate' and 'destiny', as a result of innumerable interweaving of different persons or events or story-branches. This tapestry is hence directly related to 'prophecy', i.e. the future of the world. I believe the "Loom-Mother" is set as an arch-deity because she is most directly related to the "Tapestry" which is, as I said, a record of "what's meant to happen" in the game-world. I am not sure if the Loom-Mother makes part of the dead gods. However, I believe her godstone was not met (yet!) because she plays a far more important part than the rest of gods, so there's more in store for her!

    Serpent & Tapestry: Now, (a) what is the serpent, (b) why does it want to devour the Tapestry and (c) why it can't do it, are questions that I have no clear answer... It seems that the Serpent is something 'exterior' to the world, so it can't be called "good" or "bad", it just goes about its business. It seems not to care/know about the gods, but it is aware of the Valka, so maybe (as you said), the Menders & the Serpent have some things in common through their 'attachment' to the Tapestry. What is the Serpents role? Maybe it's just a mechanism that is supposed to destroy the world ("what is meant to be"), so that it may be born again. Something like the "perpetual circle" religions, usually depicted by a serpent eating its own tail.

    Gods being dead: As the game-world's people (and the devs) have said multiple times, that stands as a pure-and-clear fact; no questioning it! What's really annoying is why there is no indication about when they died and how they died, or at least the events that lead to that (some small part of that is explained by Juno at the Stravh's godstone). Now, whether or not they can be "resurrected" or something, is not really mentioned, so it might just happen!

    "The other side" is where Rook/Alette 'went' after his/her death, in the cinematic sequence in the end of the first game. A really mysterious place, obviously shrouded in darkness (in contrast to the bright "sun stopped in the sky" real-world), but also with myriads of stars and a moon/sun eclipse like thing... Oh, and those two glowing trees! I don't know what to make of this, realy...

    That said, I really hope Stoic have a rigorous structure of their world's fiction, and they're not throwing assorted mysteries here-and-there to create a feeling of profoundness to be explored/elaborated later!
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #103
    Art Director Arnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    That said, I really hope Stoic have a rigorous structure of their world's fiction, and they're not throwing assorted mysteries here-and-there to create a feeling of profoundness to be explored/elaborated later!
    Haha...you know us better than that, Aleo! Nosir, we've had the end from the beginning the whole time. This was designed as one story with a beginning, middle and end. Stay tuned.

  4. #104
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
    We've had the end from the beginning the whole time. This was designed as one story with a beginning, middle and end. Stay tuned.
    That's with I loved Tolkien's Silmarillion so much. Because I read it after The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings which had hinted at all those mysteries and had created this feeling of profoundness in his fantasy-world. Tolkien, like you, had already outlined all the back-stories that made the "body of legends" that is Silmarillion before he started writing the other two books that have a much tighter story-arc. So it was natural for him to "spice" them with bits of legend/lore. The problems start to arise when things already published don't glue well together or are conflicting with what you want to write next ("explore/elaborate later")...
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  5. #105
    The other side looks like a dreamlike representation of Yggdrasil's roots.

    The serpent reminds me of the creature Uroboros, a worm according to the Nordic mythology.


  6. #106
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvar View Post
    The other side looks like a dreamlike representation of Yggdrasil's roots.

    The serpent reminds me of the creature Uroboros, a worm according to the Nordic mythology.
    Indeed! There are "black roots" in the final sequence, and the funeral-boat is traversing thought them to come and stand between the two trees. Uroboros is our Serpent, then, no doubt about that!

    btw -- A very nice image, Yngvar.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  7. #107
    Junior Member Wuodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvar View Post
    The other side looks like a dreamlike representation of Yggdrasil's roots.

    The serpent reminds me of the creature Uroboros, a worm according to the Nordic mythology.

    I'm afraid you might be mistaken, at least as far as the name is concerned, the creature you are referring to is known as "Jörmungandr" in the northern germanic mythology or the "Midgardschlange" as we say down here. It shares some characteristics with the graeco-egyptian "Ouroboros", but is a different being entirely.

  8. #108
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuodan View Post
    I'm afraid you might be mistaken, at least as far as the name is concerned, the creature you are referring to is known as "Jörmungandr" in the northern germanic mythology or the "Midgardschlange" as we say down here. It shares some characteristics with the graeco-egyptian "Ouroboros", but is a different being entirely.
    Hmm, maybe Níðhöggr (wikipedia) is the same thing as Jörmungandr (wikipedia)? It seems not, even though the two creatures are similar... By the way, Ouroboros (wikipedia) is a greek word meaning "he who eats his tail" (Ουρά=tail and -βόρος=-eater).
    Last edited by Aleonymous; 07-05-2014 at 03:53 PM.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  9. #109
    Nidhöggr is a dragon who gnaws on the roots under Niflheim at Yggdrasil's base. He releases the dead during Ragnarök, and rises to join the battle (or at least as much is assumed). Jörmagundr is Loki's son, technically a giant, giants are capable of taking different forms, and often have a preferred form, and a humanoid form, Jörmagundr though seems to have only his form as a serpent, by Angrboda, whom upon birth is tossed into the sea. Eventually Jörmagundr becomes so large he encircles the world far enough that the only way to grasp the world is by eating his own tail, if he lets go the world will sink into the sea, as it does in Ragnarök due to the fire released by Surtr.

  10. #110
    Lastly, an Ouroboros is simply any symbol, image, or representation of a serpent consuming it's tail, most frequently noted in literature, or mythology, it's what you might call a motif in literature.
    Last edited by Fazolt; 07-06-2014 at 09:00 AM.

  11. #111
    Lastly, in response to Danis, the dredge have a body under their armor, it is a thick obsidian skin-like substance. They also seem to require food, the same as humans, as noted by their raiding of villages, and by the dredge who stole Rook and Alette's supplies in chapter 2.

  12. #112
    Uroboros, or whatever his name variation is, is just a symbol not -but still could be- a leifmotiv.

    There are some common traits through our different cultural roots, from Mediterranean to North Sea and back again.

    Nidhöggr is our serpent then and Jörmagundr is just another name for the old circle of endless life known as Uroboros and so.

    Thanks for the light, Fazolt.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson Rosenberg View Post
    Those are some great questions about the Varl lanegilliam. As far as I understand, the Varl were created by the gods and the gods created new Varl constantly, which is why there are older Varl and new Varl. Probably the first ones were killed in the wars and new ones were created to replace them. I think only Kurmr mentions fighting in the first war. This leads to the conclusion that there are not female Varl, which is supported by their usual lack of concern for woman and children.
    BUT, I hear a user mentioning in Stem forums that you can see a child Varl in one of the bridge battles (I did not notice it) and this little bit of race profile you mentioned would lead to the conclusion that if they have families, there must be Varl women and children (I wasn't aware of this race profile). This is very strange indeed, let's add to the questions.

    As for the kendr dinamyc I think it has to do with who takes over if you fall and as such it can be used in a number of contexts. The kendr of the king will be the next king, but the kendr of a general could be the one who leads his armies in case the general falls. I think it also has some hint of brother-in-arms kind of thing.

    On the brith topic, yes, the Varl are not immortal but can become very old. They were create by the gods and are probably not born, but come to life as adults since not one of them mentions any childhood. Since the gods are dead new Varl are not being created to replace the dead ones. The precise manner in wich a Varl is create is still unknown, but we can assume it can only be done by the gods (until now).
    also the varl culture don't understand females, as you can see iver killed raze when she "looked pathethic" as he said.

  14. #114
    about dredge infants or whatever, did you notice that dredge slingers dont have pants but skirts
    also you can easily see the dredge body. in this picture for example you can see his mouth, cheeks, chin, and yellow eyes
    https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bann...acab5fb15d4c86

  15. #115
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shigad View Post
    about dredge infants or whatever, did you notice that dredge slingers dont have pants but skirts
    also you can easily see the dredge body. in this picture for example you can see his mouth, cheeks, chin, and yellow eyes
    https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bann...acab5fb15d4c86
    Connecting the pieces of the "slinger puzzle", once we found out they were female dredge, was quite easy I am not sure what parts of what we see of dredge is their armor and what is their actual body... Another mystery!
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  16. #116
    i see simly a grey-brown skinned man with yellow eyes wearin a helmet at this picture. can't you see it? can't you see his lips? can't you see those age details at his cheeks? just beetween the nose-sield and the side of the helmet.

  17. #117
    simply*

  18. #118
    look at those:
    1/ https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/bann.../ca/Dredge.png
    there you can see that his fingers has folds, like human fingers
    2/ https://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/File:Scourge_icon.png
    in that one you can even see his teeth, and edge of the nose.
    3/ https://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/File...guard_icon.png
    very clear view of lips and face without shadow.
    4/ https://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/File:Bellower_icon.png
    he has a lot of age details, you can see his lips.

    are you convinced now that dredge are not made of armor and that we can see their actual bodies?

  19. #119
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shigad View Post
    Are you convinced now that dredge are not made of armor and that we can see their actual bodies?
    Well, yeah, but, I didn't say that they were like hollow suits-of-armor inhabited by a yellow-eyed spirit What I meant to say is whether this armor can be discarded, or is it actually part of their body, e.g. like the turtle's shell.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  20. #120
    oh! now i get it

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