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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: silent defense of Stoic

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by gaelvin View Post
    I've never played Candy Crush (Saga), and whenever I've heard it mentioned by anyone, the word "saga" never came up. It doesn't seem like "saga" is as central to their game's identity as they are claiming.

    Also, I find it interesting that Stoic has had Factions on Steam for over a year (with the word "saga" in it's title, too), but King made no move against it's use until now.
    Yeah, I'd mostly heard it called "Candy Crush", too. They're filing opposition in response to Stoic's filing (to trademark "The Banner Saga"), not in opposition to Stoic's use of that name; and that explains the timing, I guess. (Stoic must have only filed for the trademark recently.)

  2. #22
    Factions veteran stoicmom's Avatar
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    imo, usually not wise for those directly involved in a law suit to talk . . . we just need to support our devs as it seems we are doing! thanks for the petition link done!
    Last edited by stoicmom; 01-22-2014 at 02:42 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Yellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piotras View Post

    A petition is already up, with 4.2k signatures at the point of writing, but not about The Banner Saga in particular but about King's ambition to trademark 'candy' and 'saga'.
    Signed
    "Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"

  4. #24
    Senior Member Rensei's Avatar
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    Well there is one game I know I won't be touching. How on earth did the mobile game producer become industrial giant?

  5. #25
    Junior Member Mhorhe's Avatar
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    Also signed the petition, and linked it on RPS. Hope it does some good.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelvin View Post
    I've never played Candy Crush (Saga), and whenever I've heard it mentioned by anyone, the word "saga" never came up. It doesn't seem like "saga" is as central to their game's identity as they are claiming.

    Also, I find it interesting that Stoic has had Factions on Steam for over a year (with the word "saga" in it's title, too), but King made no move against it's use until now.
    Candy Crush Saga is the "campaign" version of Candy Crush. King did this with a number of their obnoxious games, adding Saga along with some embelishments.

    What's beyond me is the fact that games with "saga" in their title abound, ages before Banner Saga or King's incredible attempt at trademarking..
    Support Stoic against Candy Crush owner filing opposition on basis of trademark on the word SAGA!
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/22/king-are-trying-to-candy-crush-the-banner-saga/

  6.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #26
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Stoic's statement issued to Kotaku: https://kotaku.com/the-creators-of-th...-th-1506843127

    Two years ago, the three of us at Stoic set out to make an epic viking game: The Banner Saga. We did, and people loved it, so we're making another one. We won't (sic) make a viking saga without the word Saga, and we don't appreciate anyone telling us we can't. King.com claims they're not attempting to prevent us from using The Banner Saga, and yet their legal opposition to our trademark filing remains. We're humbled by the outpouring of support and honored to have others stand with us for the right to their own Saga. We just want to make great games.

  7. #27
    Candy Crush is merely a re-skinned knock-off of Bejeweled.
    Therein lies the irony. The highest revenue game that King has was essentially stolen gameplay. Now they are trying to protect their brand from a company that has gone out of their way to create something unique, and original...and that has nothing what-so-ever in common with their game.
    I have suggested on my Facebook page that players of Candy Crush boycott King and Candy Crush until King comes to their senses. This course of action will have a more immediate and painful impact on King than a petition.
    I also support the idea of supporting Stoic by buying Banner Saga. I was a Kickstarter supporter, but have now also purchased the game via Steam.

  8. #28
    Backer Korica's Avatar
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    Best of luck in dealing with this crap, Stoic.

  9. #29
    The idea that people can trademark a single word, and a word that has been common place in the world for ove ra thousand years is just so absurd, Let alone they got hte trademark rights to "candy."

    Yet we have had Candy Land and numeroius other products that have use d"Candy" in their name long long before the game.

    The entire trademark system seems so corrupted and needs a major rework.

    I hope they get no where with this and Stoic wins.

    You should only be able to trademark your exact name (IE Candy Crush Saga) and defend it against someone who's actually you know, TRYINg to rip off your product, it shoudl not allow you to "bully" or try ot stop other legitmate people who have a product that isn't ripping yours off in any way.

  10. #30
    Backer mcloud357's Avatar
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    Well that's why we are here to show and lend support to stoic if its needed. Petition signed.
    Last edited by mcloud357; 01-22-2014 at 11:25 PM.
    you're indifferent to suffering, insensitive to joy. All of life is reduced to the common rubble of banality. War, murder, death are all the same to you as bottles of beer. The daily business of life is a corrupt comedy. You even shatter the sensations of time and space into split-seconds and instant replays. You are madness, Diana, virulent madness, and everything you touch dies with you. Well, not me. Not while I can still feel pleasure and pain and love.

  11. #31
    Senior Member roder's Avatar
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    https://stoicstudio.com/forum/showthr...r-Saga&p=27841

    chapter 2 confirmed and stoic responds
    Last edited by roder; 01-23-2014 at 01:03 AM.

  12. #32
    Superbacker netnazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by balnoisi View Post
    << In a statement issued to Eurogamer, the casual games company defended its objection to the Norse strategy RPG and said it simply needed to contend the name to protect its own IP.

    "King has not and is not trying to stop Banner Saga from using its name," a spokesperson explained. "We do not have any concerns that Banner Saga is trying build on our brand or our content. However, like any prudent company, we need to take all appropriate steps to protect our IP, both now and in the future.

    "In this case, that means preserving our ability to enforce our rights in cases where other developers may try to use the Saga mark in a way which infringes our IP rights and causes player confusion. If we had not opposed Banner Saga's trade mark application, it would be much easier for real copy cats to argue that their use of 'Saga' was legitimate.

    "This is an important issue for King because we already have a series of games where 'Saga' is key to the brand which our players associate with a King game; Candy Crush Saga, Bubble Witch Saga, Pet Rescue Saga, Farm Heroes Saga and so on. All of these titles have already faced substantive trademark and copyright issues with clones." >>
    if this just means "we don't hold grudge on Stoic for using this name, but we just want to drown them in shit to prevent other more real cases to show up" then it's even more ridiculous than it was
    If you don't know where to put it - put it in the pillage

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  13. #33
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdrover View Post
    Candy Crush is merely a re-skinned knock-off of Bejeweled. Therein lies the irony. The highest revenue game that King has was essentially stolen gameplay.
    Indeed. I wonder how did PopCap deal with this. Also, I am really astonished that many of you guys seem to know this game, Candy Crush. Frankly, I am always astonished at what people spend their money on...
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  14. #34
    Junior Member glraven's Avatar
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    Oh boy~ this brings my blood to a boil! The Banner Saga is a RPG/Strategy PC game, so HOW the F*** will anyone confused it with a dumb-ass iOS casual/puzzle game? This is absolutely ridiculous!! "Saga" is a dictionary word that predates the existence of dictionaries!! If anything Candy Crush should be sued for cloning Bejeweled!!

    I am going to share this news on Steam and with all my friends. Hell no King will never get a dime from me for the rest of my life!

  15. #35
    Candy Crush is actually a rather fun casual game and you can play it without spending money, Aleo. Played it for one afternoon and they pretty much perfected the whole "Addictive gameplay + Microtransaction" thing (which, ironically, is one of the reasons why Factions got so much rejection when people learned it's FreeToPlay. Cause they rightfully hate the term, because of games like Candy Crush...).

    This copyright thing is just absurd. Seriously, Monsanto's trying to patent natural genes and now game companies try the same with words. So in a few years, you have to combine your new game's name from a small list of "not-yet-trademarked" words? WTF...

    I really hope, this turns into a MASSIVE shitstorm for King.

    And petition signed.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Yellow's Avatar
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    I have a question, how does Change.org signature system actually work? When i signed the petition it said, 292(signatures) needed, now it says 2,260, does the number needed increases every time a mile-stone(1k, 2.5k, 5k, etc etc) is reached?

    I have signed several petitions but the number of signatures needed seems to ever increase, for example :
    https://www.change.org/petitions/rock...se-gta-v-on-pc

    It says now it still needs 338,236 for a total of 1 million, but back when i signed it the total required was 500k O_o?

    Another example:
    https://www.change.org/petitions/naug...-to-come-to-pc

    this one says only 696 needed, for a total of 2500, but when it reaches 2500, the amount "needed" will increase again...

    i find this system, or at least the use of the word "needed" a bit confusing...
    Last edited by Yellow; 01-23-2014 at 07:45 AM.
    "Forged by Fire; Empowered by Passion"

  17. #37
    Backer balnoisi's Avatar
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    take this as debate fodder, nothing else : there's this attorney who has been talking in reddit about the issue, here is a couple paragraphs i read. this one is a guess on how it started :

    << So let me explain some in-house attorney logic, or at least how the conversation probably went among King's top brass when reaching the decision to file the opposition:
    Attorney: During our monthly routine maintenance we found an outstanding TM application published for opposition that we should pay attention to.
    Company: What's the mark?
    Attorney: "The Banner Saga"
    Company: That game? It looks great!! But what's the problem?
    Attorney: we have many outstanding marks in the mobile and social media sectors that use "Saga", and have sought TM protection for that word.
    Company: But that game has nothing to do with ours. They're not a clone or a rip off. What did I hire you for?
    Attorney: You hired me to protect your TM portfolio. And if we don't want the TTAB to disregard our future oppositions for those applicants that ARE actually clones we should at least think about this. Their description of goods could also arguably supersede our use, as it is more general than ours.
    Company: Wait, so if they register, because their description is more broad they may come back at us and try to get us to change OUR name?
    Attorney: It's not likely, but it's not impossible.
    And thus these decisions are made. >>

  18. #38
    Backer balnoisi's Avatar
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    and also :

    << It's not David and Goliath. It's two developers, one with substantial commercial success, one with substantial critical success, both seeking to protect their rights. Stoic obviously saw value in the "The Banner Saga" mark, which is why they sought to register. And they clearly had the money to take that step, which I assume means they dumped the grand or so necessary into getting a screening/attorney TM registration opinion letter before going into this. So it's not like they went into the registration process without knowing the risks-- because frankly, that is definitely something I would've pointed out in my "whether you should register" report.
    Basically, once you decide to register you should expect this to happen. I'm always more surprised when my clients don't get a notice of opposition, because, I mean, it's hard coming up with original names. So I often think they probably should. >>

  19. #39
    Man, I knew that copyright/trademark laws are somewhat ridiculous, but that practice is just crazy...

    But this puts it a bit more into perspective. So let's hope that Stoic still gets their trademark.

  20. #40
    Backer Rymdkejsaren's Avatar
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    After reading this: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014...e-banner-saga/ I sent a message to King via their support system, as the article suggest we do. RPS readers will do the same, even if they are not fans of Banner Saga because they hate this type of behaviour. But of course every message helps so do the same. Post your thoughts using the contact form linked in that article: https://about.king.com/about/contact

    It is naturally better if you stay civil and do not go internet rage on them. If anyone knows any other ways to support Stoic in this let me know.

    Here is what I wrote to King:

    “Mr King,

    I implore you, could you please behave like a somewhat sensical entity and stop trying to pretend like you came up with words like candy and saga. These words are regularly employed by people other than your company in a variety of ways. They are unrelated to your products because they are dictionary words. If you would like to have words made for your own personal use, how about being creative and making up your own?

    You recent behaviour towards Stoic entertainment is deplorable. They are a small independent game developer with three employees who spent several years of their life making their own game. To have to waste time on the likes of you and your follies steals precious time away from their project. Look at the quality, beauty and soul of their game and try to convince me that your products are even of the same species.

    Your company and their dealings disgust me, and I shall do all within my power to make sure people find out.

    Sincerely

    Magnus Hedén”
    RK/Magnus on Twitch
    @thewritemagnus on Twitter

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