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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: "Final Boss" Disappointing [spoilers]

  1. #21
    Backer Jawbone78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveboof View Post
    Ok, well firstly if you're going to refer to me as an 'apologist' like I'm some kind of Holocaust denier, then I'm going to refer to everyone who is complaining as 'whiners'...
    I should have taken more time to proofread my post. It comes off a lot harsher than I intended, both in criticizing defenders of the final battle and the game itself.

    When I say the game is not about the things you do between battles, I don't mean to say that those things don't affect anything. Clearly my decisions there affected my ability in the end to finish the game. What I mean is that I thought (mistakenly) that there would be a reason to care as much about what happened to my caravan, for example, as I did about my units. There is not. The only thing you ever need to actually care about is racking up kills with the right units so you can promote them, and getting into enough battles so you'll have the renown to do so. And making the right decisions along the way to pick up useful items. (I tried to investigate all the god stones, but apparently I wasn't making the right arbitrary choices to get the +3 break items.)

    So when my caravan was starving, and I made the decision to not spend renown on anything except supplies, that was objectively an incorrect decision. The supplies just get flushed down the toilet, whether by your caravan consuming them or an event taking them away. I consider that mistake unavoidable, because on my first playthrough of the game there is no way to know. The game never comes out and says "Hey, you know those people following you? They don't matter. You're better off letting them starve to death." Instead, the game leads the player to believe that you're supposed to try to keep them alive, and it's not until the game is over that you realize they don't pay that off in any way.

    The right decision, in every case, is whichever decision (seemingly randomly) earns you the most renown and items and kills, so you can put together a party that can take down Bellower. Literally nothing else matters in any way whatsoever. So if you think that the game will reward you for role-playing, or for generally taking actions that follow from the story, you're wrong.

    Because the consequences of your decisions are never spelled out for you, and those consequences can in some cases be virtually unforeseeable (I took Onef into my party, and the result was that both he and Egil died). From a storytelling perspective, I like that a lot. In real life, things don't always work out as planned. In the game, however, this basically just makes for a frustrating first playthrough, because it's impossible to make good decisions when you have no way of knowing what the consequences or rewards will be.

    Also, as I said before, I don't think the game does anything at all to guide or correct a player's decision-making process along the way. Say you come to an event that gives you an option to help someone or not help them. You decide Rook will be decent, so you help them. Oops, I lost 30 supplies. I guess the game punishes you for being too nice. Okay, next time I won't help people. Now we're at another spot. This time I'm going to be more of a jerk. Oops, lost 30 more supplies. Okay, next time I'll just avoid people. Now we're at another event. This time I'll try to avoid it. Oops, lost 30 more supplies. There is no way to make a good decision in almost any event, because you're not given the ability to investigate your options. Every decision is made blind, and all consequences are basically arbitrary.

    Than, after you lose units along the way and your caravan starves, the game leads you to believe that you can still win, because you're still moving. You're never confronted with the fact that your party might be incapable of surviving the final battle until you reach the final battle (especially with respect to Alette, who the story encourages you not to use - until the final battle, when it forces you to use her). You just move from easy battle to easy battle and then suddenly you're past the point where you're able to actually improve your party, and then you lose. Again and again and again for hours.

    Again, almost every mistake made is effectively unavoidable if you're playing honestly.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rensei's Avatar
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    The item in question is worldhook - super cheap lvl 1 or 2 trinket, that pops up in different markets 1-3 times during the game. Apart from it, there is no need to spend renown - other useful items are atained from plot events (Allette's necklace, five something necklace, you steal from dead merchant, +3str glove you get from Krumr, godscale, you get for letting the caravan collect scales under godstone and the item the drunken warhawk brings with him).

    There are plenty of alternative ones that work just as well (some become godlike when given to right character).
    Last edited by Rensei; 01-27-2014 at 09:05 AM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member loveboof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawbone78 View Post
    I should have taken more time to proofread my post. It comes off a lot harsher than I intended, both in criticizing defenders of the final battle and the game itself.
    Don't worry. I wasn't offended - just thought your terminology was a little too serious for the discussion! lol

    The clansmen and the wars are the weakest elements of the game, so I can see where you're coming from. I think you are probably meant to keep them alive to stay in relatively normal morale, but I agree that the concept needs some work for the next game.

    The recent patch has apparently opened up more renown through some of the chapters, so hopefully if you replay the game you will find that side of things a bit more satisfying.

    Personally, I'd like to see more player freedom over your route/destinations through navigating from the map (think FTL but with Banner Saga!). If this was the case, perhaps your whole caravan could become more important in other ways. For example, constructing a camp with better facilities, or ships & bridges to help traversing the map? etc. Or perhaps in a war everybody who can fight should fight, but only the fighters are really effective... There are lots of potential ways the clansmen could become more important in the next game!
    Last edited by loveboof; 01-27-2014 at 02:44 PM.

  4. #24
    Backer Jawbone78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rensei View Post
    The item in question is worldhook - super cheap lvl 1 or 2 trinket, that pops up in different markets 1-3 times during the game. Apart from it, there is no need to spend renown - other useful items are atained from plot events (Allette's necklace, five something necklace, you steal from dead merchant, +3str glove you get from Krumr, godscale, you get for letting the caravan collect scales under godstone and the item the drunken warhawk brings with him).

    There are plenty of alternative ones that work just as well (some become godlike when given to right character).
    The point isn't that there aren't items to be had. It's that it's not helpful to say "you should use such-and-such item in the end battle", when it's entirely possible to get there without said item. I can assure you that when I reached the end the first time, I did not have any particularly useful items (Egil took Alette's necklace to his grave, for one thing). Maybe I was the 0.01% case where every possible bad thing that could happen did happen, and every wrong decision that could be made was made.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Rensei's Avatar
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    Once again I apologize if I seemed offensive. Was just trying to hand out tips: "have problems with the fight? check Your items, there might be a lone worldhook there, You bought in the first shop, then forgot about it". Some people never noticed they got Eyvind at level 5 with 10 unspent points and kept playing him with 6/7 stats, wondering how anyone can think he is good, some people never bothered to check heroes tent in camp and (because of simplified pre-battle barracks view) ended up never using items.

    Myself, I was simply curious on my first run and - even though I didn't buy much, as I was always low on renown - always checked markets for items and read their descriptions. Some were just too good and too cheap to pass. But then again - I knew right from the start what stats I was after.

  6. #26
    Junior Member Aeolun's Avatar
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    I just want to make my point here as well. I immensely enjoyed the game. I apparently made all the right choices, as none of my characters died by the end, and I arrived at the bossfight with a completely depleted caravan (the last city really took a toll), but a great party of lvl 5 and 4 characters. However, then this final fight happened, and I found this post on the steam forums which describes my experience quite correctly:

    "This ending really just ♥♥♥♥es me off because of how arbitrary it is. Regardless how the 1st portion of the final battle goes, suddenly my perfectly healthy Alette who was standing fully protected by 3 varl... delivers the "killing shot" with her silver arrow and then promptly is squeezed to death by a Bellower that was not even remotely within reach of the character!?!? WTF. Then I am left to fight a shorthanded battle against a fully regenerated Bellower who suddenly has a new special power of going multiple turns in a row so I can do nothing but watch him walk up and single kill my characters without the slightest chance to do anything about it. That is one of the lamest endings to any game I have ever played."

    I'd like to say that I don't mind either Alette or Rook dying. That's fine with me as a story moment, but when I'm fighting in combat, bitchslap the hell out of Bellower, who after he's taken to near death with an arrow suddenly apparently teleports through my guys to grab my main heroine and crush her instantly, I'm left feeling utterly disappointed. It's like Mass Effect 3 all over again... There's just no possible way for it to end well, even though the fight might be going completely in your favor.

  7. #27
    Junior Member CSRosewood's Avatar
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    LaMort13 a lot of these hypothetical questions are somewhat irrelevant because a lot of them are completely impractical.

    What happens if Alette is already wounded? or What happens if the rest party is already wounded?
    I don't understand the gripe here. The game presents multiple save points to reload from to achieve different results. If the off chance that your silver arrow archer, or your entire party is wounded, which the latter is ridiculous to begin with (seeing as you get the varl caravan at the end), you can always reload at the beginning of entering the city. All games have trail and errors. And making poor choices are one of them. But to ask the game to hold your hand because you made said choices, is not warranted. But if you are steadfast to push on regardless, then know that not -all- characters require their full strength to be effective in their intended purpose. A purpose which you have given them. I won't go into detail here because I rather not take the time into it right now.

    What happens if both Rook and Alette are still level 1? or What if you've been rotating characters, and no one is above level 2?
    These two questions are so identical, that it's worth mentioning them together. And the issue with these inquiry here is that it all falls down to player competency. There's absolutely no reason for you to be sending nothing but level 1 or 2 characters into the final battle. There is so much renown and so much kill counts that, it is impractical to even consider this happening. The only way this could happen is if, of course, player incompetence. Yes, you can spend lots of renown on items and supplies, though one would wonder why you buy items which require level restrictions for characters you have no interest in leveling, piled onto the fact that if such a large portion of your characters are underdeveloped, someone or something had to be doing your killing for you which in turns is the only character(s) that would even qualify you to go out of your way to buy high cost items. Thus lowing overall expenditure of renown. You can declare that this is a game about player choices but there should also be consequences to every decision, and poor management can and does lead to self-destructive dead ends. And as the game has put forth, a character can die abruptly with no fan-fair or drama. Game over.

    That being said, I always rotate my characters in both caravan parties and I always end up with at least 6 level 5 characters (not to mention the Eyvind starts off at level 5!) with everybody else at level 4's and 3's There might be one or two characters still at level 1 or 2 but certainly not every single one of them!

    What if your party has been built with high strength, high willpower, but low break?
    Then I say, you must have a hell of time getting through the game. To be so strongly specialized to one end of the spectrum to have NONE of your characters diverse enough to invest in armor break or exertion is again, player incompetence. If this is a game about strategy then it is also about adapting to unexpected circumstances. Failure to be versatile should lead to devastating repercussions. Especially in a game about survival and warfare.

    What if you have no items, or only low level items?
    You shouldn't, especially since the game practically gives you tones of them. However, you must have ONE item regardless. Alette's Bracelet. Still, these are simple augmentations and none of them are require to beat the game. In fact, my Alette wore her bracelet in the final battle (a level 1 item) with Egil beside her, in hopes that maybe the Bellower will kill Egil instead. He promised to protected her damnit! But, oh well....

    What if you've been desperately trying to keep your caravan large and moral normal and hence have spent all of your renown on supplies?
    The math doesn't add up. I know this cause I've done this and still get a good number of high level characters at the end.

    One other issue I haven't addressed are the forced characters. Egh, in a game where non essential characters die abruptly, why would you NOT level up characters that were highly likely to survive the life-span of the game (main characters for example). I could understand neglecting Alette. But Rook and Ivar? Extremely unlikely. Seeing as Ivar is the only tank in Rook's caravan that doesn't die abruptly like poor glass-jaw Egil (hell, the kid has an achievement just to make it to the end!). And Rook being the best archer in the game? Come on. Besides, the last city has several battles to participate in, plenty of time to get some kills for them, if you're willing to reload from an earlier save. AKA Trail and Error.

    Anyways, regardless how crude my reply might have been. I'm not here to bash anyone but express my thoughts on the matter. I don't want hand holding in this game.
    Last edited by CSRosewood; 02-01-2014 at 12:53 PM.

  8. #28
    Junior Member CSRosewood's Avatar
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    I do agree with Jawbone on one particular fact. That the caravan NEEDS to mean something. I too, played through my first playthrough with the idea that keeping them alive was important. In chapter six, I was devastated that some of my guys starved on the final stretched in chapter 6 but after beating the game, you wonder... what's the point?

    I don't like gaming the system to min/max. And in all my playthroughs, I still keep my caravan alive. I'm hoping that in the next game, these numbers will matter. Like sending Eirikk, the varl king's gold and the merchants to Strand. Holding onto the brothers necklace to return to said merchant. I have high expectations that at SOME POINT I'll be returning to strand and all these choices DO matter. I'd be gravely disappointed if they don't.

    There's a thread talking about how they should implement consequences to starving your caravan. Ideas how to make your clansmen numbers meaningful and worthwhile.

  9. #29
    Junior Member Aeolun's Avatar
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    @CSRosewood: While I agree with you in basis, I think you are overlooking a very important fact. If you've gotten through the entire game with only lvl 1-3 characters, without any break skill whatsoever, and apparently won all the battles you were in, having the final boss be an impenetrable hurdle is quite frustrating. It makes no sense in light of the difficulty of the rest of the game.

    That said, the instant I saw all these walking pieces of armor the only thing I could think was 'Max Break Now!'. It's also the only thing that remains consistently useful after your characters become strength depleted (called dead weight by others in this thead).

    The real reason I'm back here is to say that once I figured it out, the bossfight was actually quite easy (on normal). It's just a matter of waiting until he comes to you, using the archers to knock down his armor (though mine both had armor break items, maxed exertion and maxed armor break, so the poor Bellower jumped from 20 to 3 armor in 1 turn. Then it was just a matter of either shooting him with the arrow, or in case of the second fight, slapping him with the 21 str warhawk. Of course it didn't all go as planned, but that was the basic tactic.

  10. #30
    Junior Member CSRosewood's Avatar
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    Well Aeolun. It would be a plausible excuse to have won many battles before hand, but the final battle isn't the first time you encounter Bellower. He's 20 Str/20 Armor on the bridge, and if that wasn't your wake-up call, well...

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvino View Post
    I've just played through the game twice over the past 3 days and had very different experiences with the final battle. I had no prior experience with Factions and both playthroughs were on normal.

    The first time around I was pretty melee heavy and had decent success for most of the game with a group that usually consisted of Iver, Fasolt/Krumr/Gunnulf, Egil, Rook, Hogr and Mogr. I wanted to see how each class played so I swapped characters around and had quite a few level 3 characters on the roster. I had a certain pair of other characters in my party, so one of the usual lineup didn't make it to the end. As I was trying to be charitable, virtuous and keep as many people alive as possible I spent quite a bit of renown on supplies. Also, as Alette had basically asked not to fight early on I'd completely left her out of most battles. I was lucky to have enough kills to get her to level 3 when I realised she was necessary. My party was mostly level 4 with 1 or 2 level 3s. Everyone had maxed Armor break but I was missing a lot of key items and didn't realise how important Exertion could be as a stat. I got through the first battle easily but being melee heavy allowed Bellower to tear my party to bits in the second. I eventually had to turn the difficulty to easy, which was much too easy.

    After this I had a couple of looks at tactics guides and item guides. Then I replayed.

    The difference was ridiculous. I built the endgame party I wanted from the outset. No renown was spent on people who were going to die or not be useful. Every possible battle was fought to maximise renown and kills. I used archers more as I knew they'd be useful in the final battle. Iver, Egil, Krumr, Rook, Alette and Nid. Aside from Rook everyone was level 5 and had appropriate gear. Having Alette with 2 Armor break, a +3 Armor break item and 3 Exertion for a possible 8 Armor reduction in one turn was almost unfair. I think Nid may actually have taken him from 20 strength to dead in one shot once his armor was gone, and he didn't manage to kill anyone.

    The battle is very doable if you know what to expect of the fight and have built a party to deal with it. But the game doesn't really encourage you to do this - you fight more or less the same type of battle from chapter 2 to chapter 6 and then something very different gets presented to you at the end. I mainly played through for the story, art, music and atmosphere and normal difficulty was appropriate all the way through on both until the end - at which point you're a bit screwed unless you've been powergaming, metagaming or plain lucky.
    Your post sums it up perfectly for me and I wanted to add more to that although I still have to replay the game.

    I have now spent three hours on this final fight and quit for now in frustration and will probably tone down the difficulty and retry later today or tomorrow or whenever the mood hits me...
    The "mistakes" that let to this I guess are:
    I bought to many items
    Coming from the Hakon campaign with no item at all I had the impression items are a scarcity and was very happy to finally be able to buy some.
    This left me with a huge chunk of items which got replaced by way better items you got due to scripts and there for where wasted renown.
    I favoured the wrong Heroes
    Every Hero I lost due to story was at least lvl 3 which let to a lot of wasted renown.
    I am to kind...I guess
    I lost to many food to people that joint my caravan and then stole from me and always took everybody with me. This isn't really the games or my fault but more just the combination of both. When faced with a moral choice in games I indistinctly go the paragon way and this game works best if you go the grey router. This is a first for me and I admire the game for it but this doesn't fix the final fight for me.
    I did not used Alette at all
    There is nothing to add to it I guess. Despite being a great character I saw no reason to take her to any fight. I enjoyed every conversation with her but that does not increase her level (maybe something for the next Saga?).

    All of this left me with no food at all for the last 20 days or so. When I arrived at the final town I had maybe a dozen fighters left, no renown, no food, no moral and no Alette.
    After the siege begins the lack of fighters forced me to basically fight five battles in a row without rest and the low moral crippled me in all of them.

    I think I know what I did wrong and more so after reading this thread. Thanks btw for not spoiling any story after the fight.
    The game is now in a strange position for me. If love rogue-likes like FTL and coming from that side a can accept my defeat because the reason I lost feels similar to those kind of games. Story driven games on the other hand are also very near and dear to my heart like Journey or Walking Dead. The end of those games feel similar like TBS but that is the point of the story and you are therefore still able to progress because its a story and progressing through it is the point.
    The frustration comes from the combination that I can't progress in the game because I had a bad play-through but the game isn't finished despite that fact and this leaves me in limbo.

    I will still recommend this game to all my friends but I WILL have to warn them to listen to my advice to at least level Rook and Alette through out the game which I regard as an essential but necessary story and gameplay spoiler as sad as it sounds.

  12. #32
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Hello all.
    I made this small tutorial-video for beating the Bellower fight. I am using [Griss, Mogr, Hakon, Oddleif, Rook & Alette (she has the arrow)] and playing at normal difficulty. My characters are fairly leveled-up (ranks 3-4-5), but I am using no items on them, so this compensates a rank or two. I know your teams are probably not as "properly statted/ranked" as the one I am using, but I hope the generic comments and strategy/tactic tips can be of help to you.
    --Aleo
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  13. #33
    @Aleonymus
    Great video, I learned a lot.
    I also noticed that I missed a lot of information because my laptop screen is a lot smaller then yours and my field of view is also a lot narrower. I only noticed the unimportant "hints" like "You have to hurry!" (duh).

    So I finished the game now by setting the difficulty to Easy and feel like I cheated...
    This final fight severely changed the impact of the whole game for the worse for me and although I can now see a lot of mistakes I "made" (in quotes because I made them due to lack of information and experience) it doesn't change a thing about my experience.
    Please don't implement a boss fight in the next Saga or set up a situation where anyone starts with the same conditions regardless of prior decisions because otherwise the same things will happen I guess. The first option is my preferred one because the decisions are more important to me personally.

  14. #34
    Superbacker Igguk's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I agree with many things that have been said here, i enjoyed the game very much for its story, graphics and music but this boss fight was really frustrating.
    I'm not a big tactical RPG player but the entire game didn't give me real challenge, i enjoyed the ride but never had really hard fights even when i couldn't upgrade my characters because all my renown went to supplies (knowing how starvation have little effect on the caravan, i thing i will play this differently now)

    The problem is that this final boss, i couldn't defeat it, i spent the whole evening yesterday and a few hours today trying different strategies but i finally switched to easy mode (which is really really too easy), and it's frustrating.
    I'm not against a little challenge even if i'm not a great tactical mastermind, but what surprises me is the difference of difficulty between the whole game and the boss. There is no real progressive learning curve, it's more like a huge wall at the end of a rather easy ballad.

    And because i had no real issues during the game (the few defeats i had didn't even stop the progression) i think i didn't learn enough efficient mecanisms and strategies.
    I also had my main armour breaker badly injured without possibility of resting before this fight, and the second fight where i can't change my roster, with this boss who take initiative everytime he's hit, changing everuthing i learned during the walkthrough...

    I don't know, it feels like school when a final exam wasn't about things we learned in class, but something totally different and harder.

  15. #35
    Hello everyone

    I find it quite interesting that there is such a major discussion about the final boss fight. I too found it to be one of the toughest parts of the game which on the one hand is great because, well, it's a boss fight. But then again, on the other side, I found it tough for all the wrong reasons. The fact that Bellower changes the rules of the game certainly makes it challenging, however, I simply find him a bit too tough for parties who are not walking in prepared.

    Ultimately, I ended up playing the final part of the game a few times in order to arrive with good moral stats and also with more or less suitable heroes. All in all, what I find rather annoying was the fact that tis repitition was breaking the immersion for me. I took about 2o tries to fight Bellower (on hard difficulty) with characters who were still not quite up to the task (highest armor break 4). Today I finally finished him off with a couple of Rain of Arrows which was the more satisfying.

    A thrilling alternative perhaps would have been to have a huge battle with all what remained of your party so far and engage in a massive battle with lots and lots of Dredge, culminating in a huge struggle between the two final armies. But then again, a single huge enemy seems to be pretty epic and more unique.

    I believe that on a second playthough Bellower will be much easier to beat since I now know how to prepare for him. Nonetheless, I would have preffered a slightly less challenging end battle despite me enjoying the overall high difficulty of the game.

    Oh, and perhaps it would have helped if I would have figured out earlier that the silver arrow actually was a special ability I was supposed to use...I tried for ages to kill Belower by using Allete for the final strike, and it was simply impossible due to his infinite regeneration ability. ^^


    - Argail

  16. #36
    Backer supamanu's Avatar
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    I came here after a few hours of frustration trying to beat the final battle... I have tried at least 6 times and failed. It's just so...odd. I was having such a perfectly wonderful time throughout the game, loosing some battles and winning others... and then this...WALL of frustration. Some of my better characters are wounded and there is no way to heal them before the battle. Argh, why. I'll keep on slaving away I guess since I would like to complete the game but, what a real downer on an otherwise wonderful experience. That's not how I wanted to finish the game

    edit: arghh this is driving mew crazy. I cannot for the life of get get passed the second stage. I give up.
    Last edited by supamanu; 02-27-2014 at 04:12 PM.

  17. #37
    @supamanu:

    Hey, don't give up!

    I can understand your frustation, it took me a couple of sessions to finish the boss battle. But I think it is possible with almost any party; a good piece of luck is also involved since Bellower is not always using the same skill, so the more you try, the higher your chances are.

    Hopefully some of those hints can be of assistance:

    Preparing for the fight:

    - try replaying the complete part in Boersgard; there are conversation options you can take for improving your moral, ultimately leaving you with more willpower to spend in the final fight
    - check the marketplace regularly, items vary and if you have the reknown, some can be quite helpful in the last fight (e.g. those improving armor break)
    - do not use any of the units in the battles leading up to the boss fight whenever possible; thus you will have no injured units when encountering Bellower
    - while being in Boersgard you have the chance to earn a bit more reknown; gather it all and then spend it wisely right before the fight

    The final boss battle:

    Stage 1

    - even more so than in other fights, turn-order is crucial -> whoever has the silver arrow should be acting after some units with high armor-break
    - ignore the slingers and to a certain extend also the shieldguard
    - focus on the two Dredge with 23 strength and make sure they do not one-shot your guys; knock their streght down enough that they are no immideate threat to you anymore
    - then focus on Bellower and get his armor down as much as possible; even with a weak team it is possible (but admittedly very tough) to finish this stage with none of your characters dying

    Stage 2

    - Bellower immideatly reacts to every hit, so it is very effective to not let him hit you
    - I find RoA crucial in this fight; this way Bellower is much less dangerous since you counter his attack
    - also, if you have units who can move enemy units by pushing or kicking, you can actually use other Dredge units to limit Bellower's movements
    - ignore the songsinger guy, he is not a threat in this fight and his lowering the overall armor of the other Dredge comes in handy when attacking Bellower


    I hope this helps. It's certainly a tough fight and I cannot say that I particulalry enjoyed all of my attempts finishing the battle. Nonetheless, the final cinematic after the battle is actually quite nice.


    - Argail

  18. #38
    Backer supamanu's Avatar
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    Thanks Argail, you are very kind. I will keep trying. I cannot NOT finish the story. I was just getting really really pissed off yesterday after 10+ attempts...

    One thing though, what is RoA?

    edit: Ah Rain of Arrows, got it

  19. #39
    Backer supamanu's Avatar
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    Well, in the end I switched difficulty to Easy (was playing the game on Normal), I just wasn't getting anywhere... which then turns it almost into an unsatisfying cakewalk.

    Meh, I am so bummed out.

    Anyhow, it's done. I got to enjoy the gorgeous cinematic, and I will pray to the gods that the next chapter doesn't end this way again.

    Thanks again Argail.

    edit: I should also add that I don"t think my problem was character levels or items. I had a few level 4-5 in my party and some decent items. Hakon was able to armor break 6. Despite all that, I got beaten down again an again. Perhaps the only conclusion is that I suck at this game... which is fine, but getting through the whole game feeling ok about combat (i.e. I win probably 70% of the fights) and then being consistently beaten to a pulp with no way out was just heartbreaking.
    Last edited by supamanu; 02-28-2014 at 08:48 AM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by supamanu View Post
    edit: I should also add that I don"t think my problem was character levels or items. I had a few level 4-5 in my party and some decent items. Hakon was able to armor break 6. Despite all that, I got beaten down again an again. Perhaps the only conclusion is that I suck at this game... which is fine, but getting through the whole game feeling ok about combat (i.e. I win probably 70% of the fights) and then being consistently beaten to a pulp with no way out was just heartbreaking.
    I don't know if you checked my video-tutorial for the 1st part of this fight (post #32 in this thread). It is on twitch, and the link is this -- https://www.twitch.tv/aleonymous/b/499676199 . If you don't mind my Greek accent, you could grab some interesting tactics on how to beat Bello on Normal, with high-rank characters (and no items). I will try to summarize some of the most important points here:

    • As Argail said, you'll mainly need ARM breaker units in this fight. Bringing three ranged breakers (Rook & Alette + Yrsa or Oddleif) works even better.
    • As Argail said, you should place the silver-arrow bearer (preferably that should be Alette, due to her Puncture passive) after those breakers .
    • Don't ever try to bum-rush Bello and his bodyguards. That's the surest way to lose.
    • Deploy in a corner, and spend your first few turns resting or slightly repositioning out of their reach. Let them come to you.
    • Avoid killing the bodyguards, just maim the high-STR Scourge and the kamikaze Slingers.
    • Keep the Arrow-Bearer safe in the back. Equipping him with one of those "1STR Deflected" items keeps him/her safe from Bello's Quake-and-Despair too.
    • Carefully study the turn-order. You should look for a "window" of Break->Break->SilverArrow. Optimally, Bello should be acting right after the Arrow-Bearer.
    • Even if that doesn't arise, don't hesitate to "gentle" Bello, i.e. reduce his STR to safe levels. At the start of his next turn, he'll regenerate 6 STR points. So, if you get him down to ~9-10STR, he wont be so scary.


    The second part of the fight is a little easier, in my opinion. I typically "sacrifice" a ranged-breaker to win this one:
    • Move a ranged-breaker up and do a 5+ AB on Bello. He'll walk up to you (if he can) and probably one-shoot you.
    • If the next-to-act ally is a high-STR one that can "gentle" Bello, take that STR attack on him. It's a walk after that...
    • If the next-to-act ally is a breaker, do another 5+ AB on Bello. He'll probably one-shoot another unit, or cripple a high-ARM breaker.
    • The most difficult thing here is having at least one high-STR Varl (i.e. don't get your Hakon KO'd in the first part!).
    • But, in-range archers work even better. All it takes to gentle an ARM-broken Bello is one Puncture shot!
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

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