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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: "Final Boss" Disappointing [spoilers]

  1. #41
    I had the same bad experience that many others had. I replayed the Bellower fight on Normal about 15-20 times, all with varying results of getting waxed. I'm either a terrible player or the mechanics of the final fight are deeply flawed.

    I don't mind if I'm a terrible player. That's fine. But the game needs to do something to let me know that before I reach the final fight. I took every fight I could, won all but 1 along the way, and got my ass handed to me repeatedly against Bellower. At the end, my team couldn't crack him. I made it to the second part a handful of times, but I went into the fight with two characters injured, and was just ground down.

    I feel like there are too many mechanical issues that go awry that simply aren't present in the rest of the game-

    1- I'm actually okay with Bellower restoring his armor. I'm NOT okay with the turn order changing so much. It essentially ruins the set up with the required item and draws out the first half of the fight.

    2. Being down one character. My version of Alette was pretty weak, so losing her wasn't too bad. Only, sometimes she'd get dinged early and I couldn't make it out of the first half. I also played with Rook being the archer with the special arrow, only he's one of my better characters, so to lose him for the second half made it nigh impossible to win.

    3. Change of difficulty on Easy. I've never completed a game on less than Normal, The Banner Saga is the first game that I've felt compelled to drop the difficulty down just so I could see the friggin' ending. That's terribly disappointing. I still love the game, but the balance and mechanics are out of whack.

    For the record, I've been playing games for a long time and I've played and beaten many SRPGs. Some were easier than others, some are more difficult. Difficulty isn't a problem, but fairness is. I'm also a game dev with over 9 years professional experience. I don't know many folks who would say that turning the rules on their ear in the last encounter is good design, it just goes off the rails. If done properly, the last encounter should build upon and expand the rules you've come to know and love, not just make up new ways to punish you. I applaud those that have made it through, particularly on your first run. But flexing your e-peen doesn't mean that the game is balanced, not by a long shot.

    Does that ruin the game? No. Not at all, it's a wonderful game. I can't wait to play through it again. But does it diminish my enjoyment of it as a whole. Absolutely. And that's a shame. I'd definitely still recommend, but only with the qualifier that it is poorly balanced in the end.

  2. #42
    I stopped playing the game, have yet to see any endings, and at this point I really don't care. Having bashed against the end battle over and over I am done. I will be very unlikely to purchase another Stoic game and will not be recommending this to my friends.

  3. #43
    I agree; a fantastic game, but some rough parts - the last battle, most notably. From a roleplaying perpsective, the caravan seems important. The end of the game reveals that it really isn't, particularly from a gameplay perspective. Certain characters are important, form a gameplay perspective, but there's not much indication of that - the variety gives one the impression that you are free to customize. A nicer match of roleplay and gameplay would be nice. It reminded me of Krater, a game that seemed decent until the last, stupid-awful fight, which I never did win. TBS is, in contrast, a much, much better game, but has the same final fight problem.

    Still, a fantastic game!

  4. #44
    LOL come on, Bellower is not as hard as Count Dracula from NES Castlevania.
    Just break his armor to under 10, afterward get one of your heavy hitter attack his strength (Hakon, Bersi, Gunnulf, Rook, Nid, Alette)
    After his strength is under 8, the guy is easy.
    to break his armor : equip items, and use Mogr/Griss/Rook Special.

    I want stronger Sundr for next Saga, something that lurk in the back like Stonesinger with its annoying abilities, with step back ability and can call reinforcements

    PS : For the developer : you know you made a good final boss when there are people who can't finish the game because of him

  5. #45
    Hi,

    I thought the last battle was great; because it changes the combat mechanics, it forces you to change up your playstyle. I think the game needs more of these moments, as it took me maybe 5 tries to get it right (versus winning every other battle).

    It's pretty obvious that you have to weaken the minions while keeping them between yourself and bellower. Like someone already said, if you have Oddlief in your team, you can use rain of arrows and keep Bellower locked down. Then you need one good armor reducing attack on Bellower (like someone carrying that belt, plus 3x willpower attack, can take off up to 10 armor in one hit). Then assuming you put a high defense character in front of bellower (say, 18 def), he can only do minimal damage on his next turn. When it's your turn again, an archer with puncture and decent damage (say, with the +3str gloves) will take a big chunk off of Bellower, meaning he's no longer a 1-hit-kill danger. Then, you work him as per usual. This might not be obvious on your first go at the battle, but by 20 tries you should have figured something out. I'd hate for this to be just like any other battle but with a 20/20 enemy instead of the usual; how god-awful boring would that be?

    To complain that you might need Alette or Rook and you may not have levelled them, or they're injured, seems absurd given the fact that the entire game is based on not knowing the consequences of your actions. What if I spent all of my renown levelling Egil and then he died? Tough luck, that's part of the game.

  6. #46
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LieChenZhou View Post
    I want stronger Sundr for next Saga, something that lurk in the back like Stonesinger with its annoying abilities, with step back ability and can call reinforcements

    PS : For the developer : you know you made a good final boss when there are people who can't finish the game because of him
    Hey there, good to see you in these forums too!

    Quote Originally Posted by bob the builder View Post
    It's pretty obvious that you have to weaken the minions while keeping them between yourself and bellower. Like someone already said, if you have Oddlief in your team, you can use rain of arrows and keep Bellower locked down. Then you need one good armor reducing attack on Bellower (like someone carrying that belt, plus 3x willpower attack, can take off up to 10 armor in one hit).
    I gave that some thought... It seems that the character with the highest Armor-Break potential is Krumr, having 4AB-max and 3EX-max. Giving him that +3AB item/belt, makes him the only character capable of that double-digit 10AB!
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  7. #47
    @ Supamanu: you're welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    I gave that some thought... It seems that the character with the highest Armor-Break potential is Krumr, having 4AB-max and 3EX-max. Giving him that +3AB item/belt, makes him the only character capable of that double-digit 10AB!
    @Aleonymous: Is there actually any way to bring Krumr to the final battle? In my playthroughs he always got killed stopping Dredge pouring into the city.


    I just finished the Boss Battle in another playthrough and I really think that RoA is the best way to confront him. In the second stage of the engagement I kept placing them with Oddleif and then hit Bellower with Ludin, the RoA field inbetween the two. With RoA levelled all the way up to three it goes pretty quickly.

    Still, considering how many people had severe issues with the final battle (myself included at first) and that some didn't finish it because of it (which is a shame really, such a beautiful cutscene in the end!) I feel that the second installment should have a somewhat different bossfight.

  8. #48
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argail View Post
    @Aleonymous: Is there actually any way to bring Krumr to the final battle? In my playthroughs he always got killed stopping Dredge pouring into the city.
    Sure Actually, in all my playthroughs Krumr was there available! The reason is, most likely, because during the siege of Boersgard, I helped Iver defend the walls on every single day. Fighting (and winning?) all those battles probably prevents the Dredge from breaking into the city, the event which triggers Krumr's death, I believe...
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  9. #49
    You can skip fighting on the wall the first day 100% and Krumr will not die. Maybe the second (not 100% sure here). But if you dont fight the days after that, krumr will die.

  10. #50
    Ah, very interesting. Thanks guys!

  11. #51
    Junior Member CSRosewood's Avatar
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    Actually, you don't have to fight on the wall at all, as long as you have enough soldiers to fight the waves. It's when you run out of soldiers that the dredge break in and causes Krumr's death.

  12.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #52
    Art Director Arnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSRosewood View Post
    Actually, you don't have to fight on the wall at all, as long as you have enough soldiers to fight the waves. It's when you run out of soldiers that the dredge break in and causes Krumr's death.
    Yup. This ^

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