So...what is Stoic up to these days?

[Arnie]

...You also hinted strongly/semi-promised that this was the plan…I think.

Factions doesn't even need too much love:
Wishlist:
- Fresher leaderboards (easy)
- New units from the saga (medium)
- Items (medium)
- New tournament modes. E.g. Random or Draft (medium+)
- End game/Purpose (hard - I could wait for the end of saga for this one).

You are correct that I 'said', not even semi-hinted, that our plan was to refocus on Factions after Chapter 1...and I was telling the truth. Perhaps that's one negative of open communication with the players because plans do change. Really sorry about that. Sorry we need to refocus and sorry I blabbed about our intentions, but I'm doing it again here so maybe I just won't learn the lesson.
Along with your wish-list, of which I think is a good one, I'd add some sort of single player mode.
Thanks a lot for the feedback!

[Arnie]

This isn't exactly related to the games themselves, but are there any plans to release some of the various extras that have existed, such as the art book? I was unaware of the game until after the kickstarter, but I'd still very much like to grab an art book if it becomes available. Maybe an alternate suggestion for an art book is to wait until all 3 parts of the Saga are released, and make a large, print version, but either way, I think there are plenty of folks who would grab one if given the chance.

Sorry about the art book. That being delayed is totally on me. We finished the Ch1 and then I took off with the family then out to San Fran for IGF. I've been compiling the art with my spare hour here hour there, but I wish I could have had it to you by now. It's something I'm actively working on right now though and want to make sure I go through all my old files and seek out the stuff I've forgotten about so I can bring it to light for you. Thanks a lot for being patient everyone.

[Arnie]

Good for you guys. That's the nature of indie games and there was never any question Stoic was anything but. Have you considered tapping a couple of these talented and die-hard fans as volunteers? Don't know if the required skill sets exist in these lonely woods, but the commitment and integrity has certainly been demonstrated for a prolonged period. Just for the Factions updates?

We've thought of a number of ideas to get the updates out, but it's difficult. John can explain exactly why far better than I can, but here's the layman's version: Both Factions and the Saga are 1 code base. If we tried to update Factions now the entire game would fail. Lots of the code has been updated, moved around, expanded...etc for the Saga, which is why the Saga is slicker. To do an update to Factions, even if we aren't adding "content", to bring it up to speed would take a significant time of coding and lots of QA right now. Sometimes you need to break something to fix it.
To answer your question about using our talented die-hard volunteers the answer is we'd love to and plan to. We imagine a future of Factions that is far more mod-friendly, but we just need to get the tools/code in a place that is better for that approach.
Ps. I love that I'm hearing so much love for Factions.

[Arnie]

1. Are there already plans on new battle-mechanics for chapter 2?
2. And have you considered that new Early Access system on Steam?

1. Do you mean new units? Yes! Do you mean changing the current combat mechanics? No! We have had some really good feedback from the Saga that combat could use some more variety in tactics and we are working on that for Ch2.
2. This question is out of my realm, I'll bet John and Alex have discussed it though. If I get any info I'll post it here.

Thanks for the questions, Dread! By the way, I just finished book 3 of the Saxon Tales by Bernard Cornwell...everyone should check it out if you dig historical fiction books about vikings.

[Arnie]

Congrats on the successful release, Stoic!

I've got to admit, I'm right there with Aleonymous--- Eeek! No updates to Factions for two to three years until the single player series is totally finished? If indeed Factions just isn't bringing any money in, then business is business and y'all have got to do what allows you to keep making games *and* pay the bills; fair enough, and I respect your willingness to make a tough call. (I ran out and bought the eternal renown boost after I read this. Everyone! Go spend money in the Factions market and make it financially viable pls!!!)

A few thoughts: I think that Factions plays a role in community development that goes beyond the revenue stream it provides. It keeps people on your forums and playing your games during the year+ that a new single-player game is in development, and it keeps them around after the SP game is released and played out. I'm thinking of StarCraft: why are people still playing SC:Brood Wars twenty years after release? It's not because of the single-player campaign (which was quite good!). It's because the game's magnificent engine provides for a virtually unlimited amount of replayability when you introduce a human opponent. Single-player brings people in and teaches them the engine, multiplayer keeps them there for years (or decades). And, with Factions currently free-to-play, there's flow in the other direction, too: of course I don't have data to support this pattern in the aggregate, but I can say that I sold two additional copies of TBS (beyond my own) by pushing friends to play Factions with me.

How did/does Battle.net pay its bills? (I don't know, I'm wondering aloud.) Rather than setting Factions aside, I'd sure love to see y'all find a non-obnoxious way of monetizing it to a sufficient degree and making it into a flagship (flaglongship?) project for Stoic. I think it has that potential (I've played it more than any other online multiplayer game since HL:CounterStrike). I'm worried that if you really don't touch Factions until TBS:Chapter 3 is finished, you'll lose the community you've developed here; many of the strongest players already don't get on very often because they feel that they've pretty much learned what there is to learn and mastered the system.

I would really, really love to see Stoic take a month or three here just to pick the low-hanging fruit for Factions (up-to-date code-base and interface, any elements "that are totally done and need to get in") and, ideally, bring in just one more playable class (adding the Spearman would have a huge disruptive effect on the current metagame and give the power-gamers all sorts of new things to figure out and argue over) to keep the gameplay fresh.

But, again, you can only do what you can do, and you've done marvelously already. Looking forward to whatever Stoic does next!

I totally understand the sentiment here. As I stated a lot can change in our plans. Perhaps John will find the time to update Factions after he finishes the ports. Maybe Alex and I don't need as much support to get Ch2 running and John can mess about with Factions. We'll see. I can tell you that John is a huge Factions fan and the guy does prodigious amounts of work. Stay tuned...

[Arnie]

OK, the tone is not dramatic enough in this thread So, lets make things more explicit:

No Factions = Community dies

PS -- I don't really mind the green Thrasher dying... But the rest?

Hahaha...thanks man, as if I didn't understand. ;p
I can tell you that chess hasn't been updated in hundreds of years and still has some active supporters. Hah!
We will be communicating more during the development of the Saga and hopefully you'll find it interesting.

[Arnie]

First off wanted to thank you for your work on both The Banner Saga and Factions. Both are incredibly solid games, elegant in their simplicity, and compelling. Even though I love games and follow them closely this is the first one I've bought to play myself in a long time. I played the first chapter through several times and then moved on to Factions and have been playing it regularly since then. It's sad to see the queue times are so long to find matches, though, but there's not much you can do about that beyond finding ways to encourage new players to start playing and veteran players to keep playing.

Which I hope you'll do. I'm really looking forward to the second chapter and I'm recommending the game to everyone I know. Best of luck moving forward, and I hope this game finds the success it deserves.

Many thanks for the kind words. We will do everything in our power to make this Banner Saga journey as interesting for our community as we can. I feel like this whole thing has just started and am pretty excited for the future of it all, hope you guys/gals stick around.

[YaK]

We surely will Arnie, this is out of discussions.
With Chapter 1 and then with faction (that i discovered later and find AWESOME, cause it's SIMPLE in mechanics and you don't have thirty thousand ability and stat to choose, but you have to BUILD and master your strategy on what you have) you've done a wonderful Job.

I'd like there will be three clones of each of you, so you could work faster with the same quality level

[Aleonymous]

Thanks for the reply-torrent, Arnie!

There's a saying that goes like: "Show me your game and I'll tell you who you are"... So, since we obviously liked your game(s) and stuck along with you along this road, it means that we love you guys and will march Onward, Together, be it in darkness or in light. Can't wait for more Banners, Sagas, Factions, ArtBooks, Updates etc etc!

From your reply to GorillaKhan's suggestion (and from other replies), it seems that John is the man to be "pressed" for all our "needs". Judging from his ancestry (), he's a die-hard relentless TBS-machine, so we can surely count on him. Don't hesitate to reach out to the community for whatever you believe we can be of assistance.

---

Would you mind some more questions, a little more specific this time? No? OK, here goes:

1. Are you thinking of co-operating with the community for the design and/or feedback for following parts of the Saga? Maybe some items, or godstones, or random events, or characters (personalities and/or abilities) etc.
2. How will the following parts of the Saga fit with this first part? How will they be marketed, as stand-alone products or as "mega-DLCs"? Will they require one to have purchased/installed the previous parts? (This question relates to save-transferring too, so I won't get more into that here).
3. Concerning the combat-system (one of my favorite components of the game, and the core of Factions): Summarizing the very few negative concerns, people expressed some concerns about [a] the abrupt difficulty spike in the Bellower fight and [b] the turn-sequencing becoming unintuitive and frustrating in the large turn-advantage situations (e.g. 6 broken heroes vs. 2 full Dredge Destroyers). The first concern, [a], can very easily be addressed, if anything by making the "Easy" setting a little harder (!); a lot of players said that "Normal" was very difficult and "Easy" was a walk... The second concern, [b], is more fundamental, but there are ways to address it (for the single-player game only); if you're willing to, please open a discussion.

[grumpyoldman]

Thanks for your effort Arnie!
This is all I wanted to hear I guess:

Sorry we need to refocus

And please rest assured, there's no redoing of any mistake in your frankly speach. (Or you are just guessing you should "learn" the entirely wrong lesson from it!)

Considering the feeling right after your Kickstarter campaign, please remember that you three are the most important part of your Saga! (Including your well-being versus felt claims of given "promises" )

[bruther]

I can tell you that chess hasn't been updated in hundreds of years and still has some active supporters.

True enough--- not to mention Go

[netnazgul]

Yeah, but Chess and Go had a lengthy period of development prior to that

Well, I'm sad that I won't play Factions for [year? two years?]. Saying that at least I'm content with the conversation we're having here. We need more feedback from you Stoic guys!

[Rymdkejsaren]

To be fair, there is still no release date on the Chess single player campaign.

[Teomus]

Dear Stoic!
Thank you for this fantastic game again!
Is there concrete date for the upcoming patch?
My almost-complete hungarian localization needs it!

Thank you!

[Lorddirk]

I just have two questions.

1. You know we can animate quadrupeds right, even without video reference! *wink wink, hint hint*
2. When can I get a chance to buy you guys a drink? Ironically last time we were Iced in. . . in Texas.

Glad you guys got some time off, and eager to see you back at the studio.
-Pat-

[Aleonymous]

1. You know we can animate quadrupeds right, even without video reference! *wink wink, hint hint*

A direct hint at... playable Horseborn units?!? Can it be? PowerHorse Animation!

EDIT -- This Horseborn hint, reminded me of all that "2x1 sized unit" discussions, and how tricky that would be for moving around... Did you guys finally get anywhere? I am so tempted to propose "anisotropic" mechanics (e.g. a unit needs to spend separate points for moving and for changing orientation; a unit has different STR/ARM/AB stats when "viewed/attacked/attacking" from a different direction: face, sides, back)

[Lorddirk]

A direct hint at... playable Horseborn units?!? Can it be? PowerHorse Animation!

Not a direct hint, more a hint that it would be awesome to animate them. I can hope as much as any fan.

[GreenDread]

1. Do you mean new units? Yes! Do you mean changing the current combat mechanics? No! We have had some really good feedback from the Saga that combat could use some more variety in tactics and we are working on that for Ch2.
2. This question is out of my realm, I'll bet John and Alex have discussed it though. If I get any info I'll post it here.

Thanks for the answers, this sounds great.
I'm pretty sure, you can make Chapter 2 even better than the first one.
Regarding 1) Yes, the only somewhat lacking fact about many Saga-battles was the variety in combat. More varied battlegrounds, more enemy-variety or some special rules (special tiles, weather-effects...) would surely help against it.
2) I think, it would be a great way to get the community involved again in the process, be it balancing or bug-squashing.

[SectionOne]

Hey Guys, Hope you had a great Time with your Familys.

Can you says something about the actual State of the Translations? My English is not the best, so I wait to play TBS in German.

Greetings

[Arnie]

I just have two questions.

1. You know we can animate quadrupeds right, even without video reference! *wink wink, hint hint*
2. When can I get a chance to buy you guys a drink? Ironically last time we were Iced in. . . in Texas.

Glad you guys got some time off, and eager to see you back at the studio.
-Pat-

Patrick, first off I totally dig your icon here. Now...
1. Yes, I know you can animate anything. Quadrupeds? Wait until our next meeting...we've got some fun coming your way, we just need to get our ducks in a row before talking with y'all.
2. I think we should buy you guys drinks!

Yeah, we're glad for the time off too, but are chomping at the bit to get back to it all.

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