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Thread: Endgame Practice Thread -- "Who Wins?" Puzzles

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    Endgame Practice Thread -- "Who Wins?" Puzzles

    Hello vikings!

    This is a thread aiming to help players practice their endgames, in situations where the moves that lead to a victory are not so clear. I am gonna start this thread with three snapshots from my Steam archive. I've picked some instances where the two teams are at approximately equal footing, meaning that one mistake can make the difference between life and death!

    Feel free to discuss, propose solutions and add your own puzzles We could even rate the "evenness" of the situations depicted.



    Puzzle Aleo#1: WH+2Archers on each side. Everybody is scratched...


    Puzzle Aleo#2: A full-WH (with 2EX) back by a maimed SA against three healthy enemies... Can he make it?


    Puzzle Aleo#3: Two WHs, a TH, a SS and a firepit! (All melee units have 1AB/2EX)
    Last edited by Aleonymous; 09-04-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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  2. #2
    Hah! This is fun! Thank you Aleo, good idea! For me, the outcome of the first two is obvious. #1 wins Aleo. 2# wins Aleo. The third is hard to tell. I could use some more info, especially, if this Thrasher or WH has got 2 AB?

    The first is just maths for me: Strange Carrots got 2 points more of strenght left. You got 11 points more of armour left...none of his characters will do more than 1dmg the next three rounds. You will do at least 4 total without a doubt.

    Best move for Netnazgul in the second: move RM onto the corpse of dead RM and Stonewall. If the SA stays in range of the SM, attack with full-out ability. If not, take one step back to avoid the WH.
    If the WH chooses to advance to your SW'ed RM, it's gonna be a grind, cause the first Puncture attack will do just 5 damage (considering 6 break before, which is most likely to happen. Still, it's a 11/6 WH vs 9/8(6) BM. Turn oder will decide!

    If your SM did a RtF rank 2 to the SA and the WH comes to finish the SM, do another break to WH hiding behind RM and cripple the now 4 armour WH with a 8 dmg puncture shot.

    In both cases, it still stays close, depending on blocking abilites of the players...What will happen, if Aleo uses his last WP to throw some coals? I cant tell!


    Coming back later for some more wild guesses
    Last edited by grumpyoldman; 09-04-2014 at 05:26 PM.

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    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    I admit I haven't given much though to the exact moves, but it is obvious that the uncertainty of the outcomes "scales" from #1 to #3. So:

    • Puzzle Aleo#1: Its a sure-win for blue team, due to the good health (high-ARM) of the SA who: acts next, is well protected from WH, is in-range of both broken archers. I actually won this one; here is the full match.
    • Puzzle Aleo#2: I think that red has an advantage, assuming that BM can snipe the SA and take the match into pillage. I lost that match (no recording) and I remember that netnazgul did something like what you suggested, i.e. he move up the RM and SWed him in-range of my WH.
    • Puzzle Aleo#3: Is highly uncertain, but red has a slight advantage due to Puncture-potential. All the melee units had 1AB and 2EX, from what I recall. I actually won this one, that ended with a lot of RNG rolls, and my WH chasing the SS around the pit! KD suggested that SS need only have crossed the pit, 1STR damage for her vs 4STR damage for WH...
    Last edited by Aleonymous; 09-04-2014 at 09:17 AM.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    I admit I haven't given much though to the exact moves, but it is obvious that the uncertainty of the outcomes "scales" from #1 to #3. So:
    • Puzzle Aleo#2: I think that red has an advantage, assuming that BM can snipe the SA and take the match into pillage. I lost that match (no recording) and I remember that netnazgul did something like what you suggested, i.e. he move up the RM and SWed him in-range of my WH.
    Actually, that was my first impression, too. Then I calculated 2 turns forward and saw you winning everytime...But of course, you didnt have that time back then. So you run into the 8 dmg Puncture threat, most likely. Interesting fact, that you dont even have to fear an untouched BM + 2 breakers vs. untouched 12/16 WH.

    I had a second try on the 3rd, but at this point I really think it may've been 50/50...

    Edit: Ah you know what? I thought you had this 1 point of WP left in the horn. But Net has got it. Wow, what a difference!

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    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyoldman View Post
    Actually, that was my first impression, too. Then I calculated 2 turns forward and saw you winning everytime...But of course, you didnt have that time back then. So you run into the 8 dmg Puncture threat, most likely. Interesting fact, that you dont even have to fear an untouched BM + 2 breakers vs. untouched 12/16 WH.

    Edit: Ah you know what? I thought you had this 1 point of WP left in the horn. But Net has got it. Wow, what a difference!
    Looking at this for several minutes now, and still can't see a clear path For netz, it's clear that he wants to unite his three units, keeping the BM behind them breakers, and then he needs to take the match into pillage ASAP (optimally w a BoP on my SA). For me, it's clear that I need either (a) to keep the SA alive to maintain turn-advantage or (b) to bait one of the breakers to come in-range of my WH to kill SA. Another problem for me is that while WH (2WP max) is maneuvering and SA is running away, the enemy BM can rest and stock-up on WP for snipes...

    So, in view of what was said, here's the moves I see:
    (a) RM walks 3 tiles NE and SWs,
    (b) SA walks away, e.g. 3 tiles due-north,
    (c) SM moves some tiles away from WH,
    (d) WH comes in-range of SM,
    (e) BM turn; a critical/turning point: if she tries to kill SA, then WH gets pillage-turn and kills SM or BM or both (in this scenario WH wins the match); if she backs-away/rests, then we get into another round of maneuvering:
    (f) SA probably rests or backs away even further,
    (g) RM has to choose between engaging WH or SWing in a blocking-tile (using last horn WP),
    (h) WH probably comes in and kills somebody (preferably SM) or flanks some more, trying to get one-shot-kill on SM (without him activating ability)...

    We need some Tirean input here
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

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    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Here's a fresh one, relatively far from endgame. This was a tourney match that froze and so it wasn't decided. Let's hear some moves

    Puzzle Aleo#4: Cornered BM (and friends) vs. full-STR TH (and friends).
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

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    Played a p6 QM against bonaparte48 today. It was 2-3 weeks from my last match and 3+ months from his last I was using the K_B build and he had [3TS 2SM BM]. Here's how it was near the endgame:

    Puzzle Aleo#5: Worn RM+SRM vs. healthy and almost-dead TS pair


    His two TS have 2EX and 1AB, while my SRM has 2EX and 2AB. What do you make of this? Even though our stats are approximately the same, I think the TS pair (with higher mobility... and BF!) has the upper hand.
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  8. #8
    ok, I agree.

  9. #9
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleonymous View Post
    Puzzle Aleo#5: Worn RM+SRM vs. healthy and almost-dead TS pair -- Even though our stats are approximately the same, I think the TS pair (with higher mobility... and BF!) has the upper hand.
    Looking back at the stats, mine are somewhat higher: (1+4+9)+(1+7+10)=32 for me and (0+8-2+12)+(0+4-2+6)=26 for him, removing the shieldwall bonus for his two TS. Also, I have a shieldbanger whose passive mitigates BF damage, so my number-one goal was to avoid getting a direct hit by the 12STR TS. My initial plan was to act quickly (so that his TS don't Rest back to full WP), SW my RM and ram him in-range for a WP-loaded hit on the healthy TS...

    For the record, we're having a small discussion in the Steam comment section with Troll
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