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Thread: Some more Bellower rant (2nd fight)

  1. #1
    Junior Member egalor's Avatar
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    Some more Bellower rant (2nd fight)

    My first post here, hello @everyone!

    I've just finished TBS today, and I think it's a great game, even despite it's more arguable issues which are being discussed a lot.

    However, I need to note one specific issue: the Bellower 2nd fight is the biggest flaw in the game. And before you start calling me [insert insult here], here is why I think this last boss fight was flawed.

    I don't mind difficult games at all. Sometimes, even frustratingly difficult, as long as they remain entertaining. Entertainment in tactical games comes from finding a correct tactic. There might be a multitude of such tactics to win the game, and the more of them, the (usually) better.

    The first fight with Bello (on normal) was a breeze: I managed to win it even before my first turn even ended. However, the second Bello fight imposed on me a single only possible tactic: to have strong archers chipping off his armor, while he was being blocked by his bodyguards. Once, I managed to surround Bello with Hakon (lvl5), Mogr (lvl 3) and Iver(lvl 3 or more?). But Bello's continued ability to regenerate armour AND strength made it impossible to beat him.

    Okay, there's only one tactic in that fight - to have strong archers. But having strong archers means training them from the chapter 1. But heck, I might not even invest a single renown point into Alette/Rook, and I could win every fight in the game, except the last one! How am I supposed to win that 2nd fight without archers, other than by lowering the difficulty? Especially with Egil suddenly gone, taking away 30 renown points with him.

    This means, that tactically, this last boss fight was designed badly. I don't even mention that story-wise this 2nd part was absolutely superfluous. Shouldn't he have died after being hit with a silver arrow, or at least have lost his ability to regenerate? And immersion-breaking: his ability to immediately retaliate somehow paralyzed the rest of his troops, which was waaaay too much abstract.

    ***

    Looking forward to TBS2.

  2. #2
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Hello there, and welcome

    Even though I agree that the last battle had its flaws, I don't think it's archers you require, but Armor-Break. Lots of it! So, if you left Rook/Alette at rank-1, they had only 1Break and 1Exertion and were unable to use high-rank Break-boosting items. Which means they can just do 2AB per turn, which is really low... That's indeed a big problem, even more so if heroes you'd invested in (Renown) died, taking valuable items with them.

    That said, maybe the problem with the game is that it doesn't teach you that Armor-Break is more valuable than high-Strength in the long run. So, most new players tend to rely only on high-STR Varl and don't bother playing with Archers, who are much more subtle (yet powerful) units. Factions veterans most likely never experienced these issues with Bellower, because they knew that Break (and Puncture) is so very powerful.
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  3. #3
    I still haven't managed to beat Bellower in Hard difficulty.

  4. #4
    As Aleonymous already said, what you need is break. I believe I had Mogr, Iver and Hakon on level 5 and equipped with items that give additional break. Before Bellower killed them I was able to reduce his armor far enough to take him out with Alette. (A lot of missing armor also means a lot of additional puncture damage from archers). Chipping away at his armor from afar with archers doesn't work well. Archers might buy you a few turns, but not enough. Try to do as much damage as possible, as quickly as possible. Bellower will definitely kill your front liners very quickly.

  5. #5
    Woo hoo, after about 20 tries, I finally managed to take Bellower down on Hard.

    I'm pretty sure my set-up/turn-order was as follows: Eyvind(5), Egil(5), Alette(4), Iver(5), Hakon(5), Rook(5)

    I didn't expect Alette to be mandatory for the final fight, since I'd been planning from the start to refuse her request to wield the Magic Arrow -- hence her not being all the way leveled up.

    The vast majority of my attempts replaced Egil(5) with Mogr(4). I had the Armor Break+3 item on Mogr, giving him a whopping base 7 AB. I just need to take down all the dredge, Pillage, and have Mogr thwack at Bellower a few times, right? Simple.

    In practice, maneuvering 3 Varl around all the giant dredge was impossible.

    So, since Alette needed to be there anyway, I figured I should bring along her boyfriend to keep a watchful eye on her. I then had the brilliant idea to stick that AB+3 belt on her, and wouldn't you know it my first attempt with those changes was a success.

    Other notes include: keep Hakon (with Strength+3 gloves) alive/unwounded and out of the action at all costs. The only reason I was able to pull out a win is because he was able to chip away at Bellower through Big B's ludicrous armor in the 2nd half of the battle, while everyone else on my team (injured by this point) fell like wheat before a thresher.

    Yay! So ready to pick up and carry on in TBS 2.

  6. #6
    Factions veteran stoicmom's Avatar
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    CONGRATULATIONS!! and great to see you

  7. #7
    So, I just beat this fight on the 15th time or something on Hard mode, and thought some comments would be worthwhile:

    For me, the key was to just throw all my archers at it. I ended up with
    * L4 Alette (because I needed her to arrow Bellower so my third TBS2 playthrough will be different),
    * L4 Oddleif,
    * L3 Yrsa,
    * L5 Rook,
    * L4 Iver
    * L5 Eyvind

    Weirdly enough, my Player of the Game was probably my high-armor-break (but low-level) Yrsa. In the end of the game, I managed to use her fire attack (break + DMG), have him walk over her coals (2 more DMG), knock him *back* over the coals with Iver, and have him walk over the coals again. That one attack basically netted 6 STR + 4 BRK damage to Bellower. (OTOH, this probably made up for the fact that I *wasn't* in a position to effectively use Odd--she ended up getting a massive armor break hit...and then going squish.)

    Basically, the moral seems to be that you want archers (to keep Bellower's attention) and you want multiple special attack plans, with the assumption that you can't rely on any one human character surviving the first hit.

    Attempts to beat this with 2-3 varl were just too hard for me--the field got so crowded, and it was next to impossible for them to get a hit in on Bellower, meaning that Bellower's high-strength bodyguards (who I otherwise ignored) were suddenly very powerful.

    Frustrating fight--but it was SO FUN to finally beat it.
    Last edited by RobertTheScott; 07-12-2018 at 08:56 AM.

  8. #8
    Skald Aleonymous's Avatar
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    Congrats, RtS! Strange that you didn't mention Puncture in your post. For me it's the most important part in this fight, after massive ranged BRK of course
    Together we stand, divided we fall.

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