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Thread: Enter the Fray in The Banner Saga: Factions beta test!

  1. #21
    Backer Rymdkejsaren's Avatar
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    I agree with you in that I think Stoic should not have charged for the beta of a game that will later be released free. But they chose to handle it that way as to not put out their Kickstarter backers. That is the situation and that leaves you with the choices in my nifty guide.

    As for receiving classes ahead of others, it will not give you an ingame advantage the way you might think. Classes are all (going to be) balanced in power level, so you will be quite able to have a valid team build even if you do not have access to the latest released class. So some people will get a sneak peak on the new classes.

    Following the suit of other similar games, I assume a class will not be available for ranked play until it is released for everyone.
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  2. #22
    Junior Member Quidman's Avatar
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    I'm also agree that 15$ is a little too much, because, if we paid that, we also don't have the single player game (we should paid a second time) bakers have both for 10$, I can understand that they have more, but here, I think it's a little too much difference. Because we don't really get something : since faction is ended, it becomes free, and we lose all advantage (except the proud of participate to this adventures) and it seem's to be like throwing money out of the window.

    I'm also agree that, if there's an other advantage later, that's not a good idea. As said by Frusciante if there's penalty for new costumer (and may be some of them would have participate to kickstarter campaign if they discover them before his end...) they may feel spoiled.


    One solution, is to give to people who rejoined this beta, 15$ of credit (or even 10$) as if they paid this money in faction when he's released (and in that case, I don't care if backer have the same advantage or not).

    PS: sorry for my poor english, I hope i'm understandable enough.
    Last edited by Quidman; 11-20-2012 at 03:27 PM.

  3. #23
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Fusciante, the premise of the kickstarter was to raise funds to be able to make the game possible. The access to new classes and other such content aren't just for backers actually, but for anyone who will also buy the single player game. The perk we backers get for having supported and made the game possible, is the single player game when it comes out, and the access to the additional content in the multiplayer game because we paid for the single player.

    Right now, for the multiplayer, the backers and paid testers, will get a 1 week headstart before the final multiplayer game goes live for the public. This means we keep our renown, characters and whatever progress gained over that week, into the live.

    The sneak peak and whatever else mentioned to be the same as backers pertains to receiving updates and news, who knows, maybe a perk or two as the game develops, it's not necessarily content for the multiplayer game. They're not creating two communities. They're trying to get you into the same loop as the backers.

    I believe they have a legitimate right to limit in a fair way, the content in the free multiplayer, to give you that incentive for buying the single player, since that was really their objective.

    I do agree with the sentiment that, rather than have the $15 pay just for beta access, it could have been used for the pre ordering the single player and then also grant you beta access. They did not do this because they not yet have a firm release date, and possibly also because though you get the idea, the single player game may be different than what you expect from the beta. Whatever the case, they decided against taking pre orders for now, and instead chose the paid beta.

    Just clarifying.
    Last edited by raven2134; 11-20-2012 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #24
    Backer Rymdkejsaren's Avatar
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    Remember matchmaking is based on your team renown. You will not be fighting people more powerful than you point-wise ever.
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  5. #25
    New units won't automatically make you win everything forever. A player that knows what they're doing will be able to win battles with teams identical to what was in 1.0 beta, while a player that has no idea what they're doing won't win just because of the Siege Archers and Backbiters at their disposal. New units mean new options - for instance, a unit that creates impassable squares makes a 5-archer team plausible - but options aren't win buttons.
    As for paid beta, it makes sense to me. Stoic is offering a free game. Stoic is also offering early access for people that don't want to wait for the free game. Just because you don't want to wait doesn't mean you're entitled to get it free whenever you want. It's pretty self-evident that Stoic needs absolutely no help in establishing a community for the game, and once it goes live, there will be even more people here.
    Don't like it? Just wait.

  6. #26
    Junior Member Quidman's Avatar
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    Thank you raven2134 for your explanation, it's more clear about what we can have now.

    Flickerdart, the problem isn't paying for the beta access (I think Fusciante is agree with me), it's just that it's seem's to be too much for "don't have to wait one week". And really, if I wasn't short of money I certainly buy it just for the developers because this game look really great! (yes 15$ its not so much, but in the consideration that I also have to buy the game later).

    But yet, 15$ for one week of game before the others? (if your intention is to buy the singleplayer game whatever the quality of faction is, that mean that)

    And it's easy to said "don't like it? just wait" but I think it's not the problem, and it's not a really constructive (or respectfull) argument. If it was so obvious, we didn't speak about that here.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Quidman View Post
    Flickerdart, the problem isn't paying for the beta access (I think Fusciante is agree with me), it's just that it's seem's to be too much for "don't have to wait one week". And really, if I wasn't short of money I certainly buy it just for the developers because this game look really great! (yes 15$ its not so much, but in the consideration that I also have to buy the game later).
    It's not a week. You get to keep stuff from the last week of the beta, but it will last longer than that.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    New units won't automatically make you win everything forever. A player that knows what they're doing will be able to win battles with teams identical to what was in 1.0 beta, while a player that has no idea what they're doing won't win just because of the Siege Archers and Backbiters at their disposal. New units mean new options - for instance, a unit that creates impassable squares makes a 5-archer team plausible - but options aren't win buttons.
    As for paid beta, it makes sense to me. Stoic is offering a free game. Stoic is also offering early access for people that don't want to wait for the free game. Just because you don't want to wait doesn't mean you're entitled to get it free whenever you want. It's pretty self-evident that Stoic needs absolutely no help in establishing a community for the game, and once it goes live, there will be even more people here.
    Don't like it? Just wait.
    I don't like the word entitled in this context. It is true that some people on the internet can feel unjustified entitled when it comes to games. But what you're doing is calling people entitled just because there is a little bit of criticism on your beloved game.

    What you're saying about winning forever is an extreme hyperbole. Having instant win buttons or not is also not the point. If you've played competetive online games before you know that having more options in games like this can be very important. For example new skills or professions in guild wars would often completely change the builds that were used in the competivive scene. So its not that the new units are not balanced, it's that early acces to new classes gives certain players an advantage. The advantage is not in the fact that some classes might be overpowered or not but because some people get to know the classes sooner then the rest of the competetive scene.

    About the community, obviously there is a very strong backer community allready which is great. However, it would also be great if plenty of new customers join in. For these new customers I think it is important that they don't feel like there is a big part of the community that gets all kinds of priviliges.

    As a non-backer, thats just how I feel about this. I dont think I'm being unreasonable and I know I'm not entitled about anything.

    Edit: If the multiplayer priviliges are rewards for the sinleplayer game like Raven2134 says, it makes a lot more sense. What does remain then is the problem that I can't pre-order the singleplayer game yet and the multiplayer will be released substantially before the singleplayer. So then again, the only option is to pay 15 dollars for a one month beta. Also people who are only interested in the multiplayer will still be at a disadvantage. I can live with that however since no game can be entirely free and people need incentives to buy the singleplayer.
    Last edited by Frusciante; 11-21-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #29
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Then just buy the single player when it comes out to get access to the units. The single player is their objective. The perk for owning the single player is early access to the units.

    How is this different but more customer friendly than a trading card game. Yet people don't complain when decks are updated...why cos that's the game and that's the business.

    Edit: read the edit.
    Last edited by raven2134; 11-21-2012 at 06:42 PM.

  10. #30
    Did you miss the last paragraph in my post Raven?

  11. #31
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Previous post edited. Your edit had not come up when I read it. Of note dota 2 and mechwarrior online, are also open paid betas that will be free on release.

  12. #32
    Backer Rymdkejsaren's Avatar
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    DotA 2 does not charge for beta.

    https://www.dota2.com/survey/experience/

    You fill in that and you get an invite in a couple of weeks or so. Or you ask a tester, they get invites all the time. I have 4 lying around if anyone is interested.

    [edit] Well seems I was wrong, you CAN pay for DotA 2. Which is weird becuase getting a key is super easy by applying on the link above or getting one from testers.[/I]
    Last edited by Rymdkejsaren; 11-22-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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  13. #33
    Superbacker Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymdkejsaren View Post
    DotA 2 does not charge for beta.

    https://www.dota2.com/survey/experience/

    You fill in that and you get an invite in a couple of weeks or so. Or you ask a tester, they get invites all the time. I have 4 lying around if anyone is interested.

    [edit] Well seems I was wrong, you CAN pay for DotA 2. Which is weird becuase getting a key is super easy by applying on the link above or getting one from testers.[/I]
    It did up until a few weeks / months ago and it wasn't cheap.
    You can easily get keys for it now, but 5 months ago it was qutie hard, and around Chirstmas last year is was a rare commodity. Some players who got tradable copies traded a single copy for sometimes more thna a 100$ worth of games.

    The thing is, unlike Stoic's TBS:F, Valve's DOTA2 has been running as beta for much longer, and still is.
    Last edited by Troll; 11-22-2012 at 08:26 AM.
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  14. #34
    If I understand this correctly, paying players will get exclusive classes for the FTP multiplayer?

    If that's true, there goes any semblance of balance or competetiveness in the game. One thing is to sell cosmetic stuff, or faster access to things you can still obtain for free eventually and you you may say "but all classes will be equaly poweful!", but that doesn't make it true. Balance in an strategy based video game is very, very hard to achieve. And with such a small team balance will be even more difficult to accomplish.

    Really sad, I tought that this being an indie game it would have system like that of TF2 or LoL.

  15. #35
    Backer Rymdkejsaren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchierkeWiking View Post
    If I understand this correctly, paying players will get exclusive classes for the FTP multiplayer?

    If that's true, there goes any semblance of balance or competetiveness in the game. One thing is to sell cosmetic stuff, or faster access to things you can still obtain for free eventually and you you may say "but all classes will be equaly poweful!", but that doesn't make it true. Balance in an strategy based video game is very, very hard to achieve. And with such a small team balance will be even more difficult to accomplish.

    Really sad, I tought that this being an indie game it would have system like that of TF2 or LoL.
    The classes will not be exclusive, but they will be availble earlier if you are a kickstarter or paid for beta. I am guessing/hoping that they will not be available for ranked play until they are released to the public.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rymdkejsaren View Post
    The classes will not be exclusive, but they will be availble earlier if you are a kickstarter or paid for beta. I am guessing/hoping that they will not be available for ranked play until they are released to the public.
    The final part of this interview:

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...s-and-balance/

    Makes it sound like some classes would only be unlockable in the single player, therefore those who don't buy it won't have them in the multiplayer.

    Am I reading it wrong?

    I know the developers have to make money, that's the whole point, but having "premium" content that affects gameplay and balance is usually a sign of iffy FTP games.

  17. #37
    Backer Rymdkejsaren's Avatar
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    I stand corrected, you will get some units in Factions if you buy the single player chapters. However this is not anywhere close to a pay-to-win type of scenario. Remember matchmaking is still balanced by team points and so the characters you do not have available to you if you pay nothing are not more powerful, simply different.

    If you want the full game content available to you, you will have to pay. I am not certain what the problem is with this.
    Last edited by Rymdkejsaren; 11-22-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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  18. #38
    Backer Net1's Avatar
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    So, Factions will never be released as a free to play game?
    In Stoic we trust

  19. #39
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    It will be, slated for mid-december. For free.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rymdkejsaren View Post
    I stand corrected, you will get some units in Factions if you buy the single player chapters. However this is not anywhere close to a pay-to-win type of scenario. Remember matchmaking is still balanced by team points and so the characters you do not have available to you if you pay nothing are not more powerful, simply different.

    If you want the full game content available to you, you will have to pay. I am not certain what the problem is with this.
    Only if balance is 100% perfect. And no game has ever been perfectly balanced. Having more options will always be an advantage unless the other classes are extremely similar to ones everyone has or if they are underpowered.

    Let's put it this way, everything else being equal who will have a better chance to reach the highest ranks of multiplayer?, those with the free classes or those with all the classes?, more ability for adaptation and strategies is an advantage. Period.

    Of course as with any game the Devs can do whatever they want and charge for whatever they want. But for an indie Dev that went for crowndfunding the "if you pay you get an advantage in multiplayer" is rather dissapointing for me. I guess it's not right kind of game for me.

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