King of Dragon Pass strategies?

[quartex]

I recently picked up King of Dragon pass for my iPhone, since I heard the story-based gameplay was similar to The Banner Saga and I wanted something to distract me until Chapter 1 gets released. I've read through the entire manual, but I'm still a bit overwhelmed by all the options available to me, especially with the multitude of gods in the pantheon, with each god having multiple rituals to choose from. Between farming, trading and diplomacy, magic, and war, I'm not sure what I should be concentrating on at the beginning, and I'm suffering from analysis paralysis as I try to balance each of the options available. (the small iPhone screen doesn't make it easier to try to gauge the strength of my faming, warriors, clan happiness, etc. - because each is on a different screen)

I know some Banner Saga players have played King of Dragon Pass, and I wondered if anyone veterans had suggestions about what to concentrate on at the beginning of the game. Should I work on building up my food supply? My military defenses? Or my alliances with other clans?

P.S. I've played the Civilization games, and other strategy computer games, but most of them are good at starting you out with only a few decisions and then slowly making things more complicated over time. King of Dragon Pass feels like I'm being dumped in the deep end.

[Slimsy Platypus]

I actually similarly downloaded it for iOS after reading the recent update! I haven't really figured it out completely yet myself but it is quite fun. I just try things at random and sort of wing it. A lot of times I just do whatever one my advisors says too.

The best part of the game is definitely the events. The choices generally aren't straightforward (clearly no best choice), and it's always awesome to get a follow up that directly deals with how you chose to deal with the first portion. Can't wait for Stoics take on them!

[sweetjer]

Ive never been any good at this game, but it actually has a pretty good manual you can probably find online.

[GreenDread]

I got it on GoG recently and so far a more peaceful strategy has been most successful. If you just solve most of the feuds peacefully, you can concentrate on your economy and diplomacy, but still do cattle-raids, which seem to be most useful however. Having enough food seems to be essential and farming and according magic is key on that.
But in all fairness, I haven't tried the aggressive strategy yet. My 'mixed' attempt just ended in being raided every single season, once I was weakened and an easy target.

And yes, it's incredibly oldschool as you HAVE TO read and remember the manual and the hero-sagas to get any success.

[Flickerdart]

I got it from GoG recently. Where is the manual?

[sweetjer]

if you got it from gog you should be able to d/l the manual from the game description page or maybe in your inventory or something. I just found a PDF online somewhere.

[quartex]

Here's a link to a PDF of the manual from A-Sharp's website:

https://a-sharp.com/kodp/ios/KoDP-Manual.pdf

[mjstarkweather]

I'd like to thank the forum for consuming hours of my life playing this.

[Midnitte]

Wish this was available for Android

[Flickerdart]

Wish this was available for Android

Remote desktop, maybe?

[Darkenmal]

If anyone is interested: https://www.gog.com/gamecard/king_of_dragon_pass

[Jade Dragon]

In the GoG version, the manual is part of the optional extras download.

I have the game. I think I've been too aggressive though. I do pursue trade and relations sometimes, but my strategy tends to involve sending exploration parties with at least ten weaponthanes without any exploration blessings.

I hate the limitations though. You can't raid anybody but nearby clans (marked with "N"), but nobody else follows this rule. You can't even make an attempt to add the Beaker/Thunder/Slapfoot Ducks to your tribe, but you can do pretty much anything else (they laugh if you propose alliance, though). You can't send warriors to help the Marsh Ducks against the undead even after you learn of the situation (you can only do it when the event first pops up). You can't choose who your warleader is, it's automatically the best combatant on the clan ring. You can only call on one ally/favor per raid and can't make massive tribal raids like other tribes. You can't ally with the Tarsh and wage a campaign against the horse nomads. You can't kill or even wound the Cragspider even with thirty weaponthanes, thirty footmen, and a leader who has Heroic Magic and Renowned Combat (or vice-versa). You can't drive out the horse nomads and the Praxians, kill the necromancer of the swamp once and for all, ally with the Beastmen and the Tarsh, and then proceed to drive out the Red King in the north and the Pharaoh in the south. All you can do is form a tribe, and then a kingdom.

Anyway, it's still a good challenge. If you don't want to read the manual or are still confused, watch Grimith's playthrough.

[Alex]

I'd recommend reading as much of this Let's Play as you're willing: https://lparchive.org/King-of-Dragon-Pass/

Throughout, the author gives tons of advice about how to play and the best way to to maximize your chances in battle and building your tribe. It's also really important to understand the mythology in the game. It's an unusually large commitment for someone who just wants to jump in an enjoy a game, but if you're willing to really get past the learning curve I can honestly say it's one of the best game I've ever played.

Btw, don't worry too much about spoilers. There's so much content in the game, randomization and decisions that you'll make differently that you really can't spoil it for yourself. That's pretty much why it works over dozens of playthroughs. Enjoy!

[Grits]

Guys! Wow, I just started playing this for the first time on iPad. This game is incredibly complex and interesting. Never played anything like it! I don't think I've even been able to full process it yet. What...the...hell lol

For those that have experience with the game: Is it endlessly repayable or do you start to see all the same scenarios? Is there an end or is it all about the journey.

Also, Alex, am I right that this game is an influence on TBS? If so, cant wait to see in what ways. Any hints?

Also, I would recommend just playing and not stressing out about every detail. That's how I'm playing and learning a lot just by doing. I figure my first few playthroughs will end in disaster so I'm not going to try to hard to be perfect.
After only a couple of hours I've already had all my farmers revolt and had to replace my entire council lol. Crazy game. I couldn't figure out how to appease the farmers so they got pissed. But it was fun anyway

[ziltor]

I love Glorantha - been involved with it since Runequest came out as the competitor to D&D in tabletop gaming. Dragon Pass society is very similar to the Vikings, so I'm not surprised that you've noticed the similarities.

I haven't played the iPhone version of King of Dragon Pass, but played the old PC version for years. There are a number of good walkthroughs and a wiki out there if you google for them, but here's my advice for starting a KoDP game. First, I'll give you a list of objectives to work on from the first year through subsequent years, then I'll walk you through a typical year to give you the flow of things.

Priorities:

1.Recruit weaponthanes to get you up to full strength (20). Keep the total at 20 as you go. Beyond 20 it gets harder to recruit - diminishing returns.

2.Reorganize your ring to get the right people and the right mix of deities for your strategy. Look all your thanes over so you know who has special talents. Some will be younger and need time to develop. On the ring you want seven different cults if you can manage it, including one skilled fighter, one good trader, and one thane who is good at custom. Keep an eye out for thanes who are high in leadership - you'll want to pick a chief who is high in that skill, plus leaving skilled leaders off the clan ring can lead to problems. If you have many, make sure to rotate them onto the ring on a regular basis.

3.Build military fortifications (all but the most expensive - the stone wall - then trade for some goods and build that too)

4.Perform the "Ernalda Feeds the Tribe" heroquest. Objective: increase crop yields

5.Trade away your surplus crops; build up your herds, then accumulate a stockpile of goods.

6.Use that stockpile to sacrifice for mysteries (learn magic) and then build shrines and temples.

(None of the temples/magic are bad, mostly the choices depend on your strategy. However, there are some first among equals. If you're a peace clan your first priority should be to learn Curing and Healing from Chalana Arroy and build a temple to that goddess so that you'll always have that magic operating. Then sacrifice to Maran Gor for Earthblood and build a shrine. Even as a peace clan you'll be raided a lot, and you want to benefit from all that spilled blood. On the other hand, if you are a war clan your first priority is Curing and Healing from Chalana Arroy - gotta keep those farmers in the fight! - followed by Earthblood. After those, just follow your strategy. There are no bad choices other than Malia. Once you can afford them any clan will benefit from any of the temples.)

7. Perform the "Llankor Mhy Finds the Truth" heroquest. Objective: bring knowledge to the people. Over the next year your thane's abilities will start increasing. Rinse and repeat, and they'll start hitting Heroic in no time.

8. Explore - first your lands, then start expanding out. Not to the edges of the map yet - danger! Danger! Cragspider! However, the northwest (Tarsh) is safe to explore, as is Kero Fin.

9. Time to pursue your main strategy. Build up your trade and wealth, or go on the offensive against whichever neighbors you're feuding with and seize their lands.

10. Accumulate some treasures - through trade, heroquesting, exploration.

11. Focus on winning friends and beating up your enemies. You'll want to cultivate some allies. The nearby tribes should be in your pocket or else on their way out - raid them until they leave and you can grab their land for expansion. Whoever is left will be your targets for tribe-making, so be generous with them until they sing your praises.

12. Now you're ready to form a tribe.

Annual Cycle:

Sacred Time

Check to make sure your herds aren't overcrowded and stripping the pastures - if they are they'll need a bigger land allocation.
Always check the boxes for this magic: war, health, herds. Check crops too unless you just did the Ernalda heroquest. The others are situational. If you're ready to send out a bunch of trade missions, for example, then put magic into that; if you're going to heroquest then check that. Later in the game, always check destiny and heroism.

Sea Season

Check your allocations of land and people. Your advisors will tell you if you can handle some more land for crops; take their advice. For herding, though, it's buggy; they will give the right number of people but will underestimate the land. Instead keep the pastures equal to the farmland. Over time the wilderness can edge in so you have to keep an eye on the numbers and adjust. If you change the amount of wild lands then adjust the number of hunters. Leftover people go into crafts.

You'll have time for a quick trade expedition to a neighbor or exploring your own tula (weaponthanes only, keep the footmen at home to plant the crops.) Otherwise, check your weaponthane totals and recruit some if you have less than 20. Otherwise, this is a good time to reorg the ring or build something. If you're doing well, feast - and always invite the neighbors.

Fire Season

Do NOT send anybody away on exploration or trade missions - there will be a fight. This is the season for raiding. Even if you don't raid the fight will come to you.

Earth Season

OK, now you can send out those long duration missions. Weaponthanes only, the farmers are needed for the harvest.

Dark Season

You may be snowed in, so now's the time for tasks that keep you at home - building, sacrificing for magic, heroquesting.

Storm Season

You can raid - it's optional - or you can trade and explore

[IHavoc]

In the GoG version, the manual is part of the optional extras download.

I have the game. I think I've been too aggressive though. I do pursue trade and relations sometimes, but my strategy tends to involve sending exploration parties with at least ten weaponthanes without any exploration blessings.

I hate the limitations though. You can't raid anybody but nearby clans (marked with "N"), but nobody else follows this rule. You can't even make an attempt to add the Beaker/Thunder/Slapfoot Ducks to your tribe, but you can do pretty much anything else (they laugh if you propose alliance, though). You can't send warriors to help the Marsh Ducks against the undead even after you learn of the situation (you can only do it when the event first pops up). You can't choose who your warleader is, it's automatically the best combatant on the clan ring. You can only call on one ally/favor per raid and can't make massive tribal raids like other tribes. You can't ally with the Tarsh and wage a campaign against the horse nomads. You can't kill or even wound the Cragspider even with thirty weaponthanes, thirty footmen, and a leader who has Heroic Magic and Renowned Combat (or vice-versa). You can't drive out the horse nomads and the Praxians, kill the necromancer of the swamp once and for all, ally with the Beastmen and the Tarsh, and then proceed to drive out the Red King in the north and the Pharaoh in the south. All you can do is form a tribe, and then a kingdom.

Anyway, it's still a good challenge. If you don't want to read the manual or are still confused, watch Grimith's playthrough.

You can raid distant clans if your relations are sufficiently poor (or if another clan asks you to in an event). For other clans the threshold for this being the case is lower than it is for you, but you can achieve something similar with enough time.

There is a unique event where the Ducks will join your tribe, and IIRC there are circumstances under which they will Ally with you.

There are no tribal raids, for you or NPCs. Only actions and events that can spark tribal wars, and both sides have the same options in that event.

Not being able to beat the Cragspider is fine. Sometimes unwinnable battles exist. She's apparently​ a deity of some sort?

"Much as it may pain some clans, the Orlanthi are far from the most powerful group in Dragon Pass. The trolls boast certain individuals with power that can rival the gods and eldest dragons. Cragspider is one such person..."

Considering how the game ends, it wouldn't really make sense to drive out the horse nomads.

In regards to all the other stuff you mentioned- it's nice for there to be things going on in the world that are bigger than the player/outside their control.

Presumably these are things you would accomplish once you actually became the king/queen, and even then, a well constructed world would have even MORE things going on just outside the players reach after that- other kingdoms, foreign continents, etc. Limitations aren't inherently bad when you want to give the impression of being a smaller element in a real and expansive world.

Being able view act on, and change every possible aspect of the world sort of ruins that magic and scope of it. After a certain point once you've explored and dealt with everything, there won't be any more unknowns over the horizon. The edges of the map would be arbitrary, artificial boundaries in the game -like an ocean or impassable mountain - rather than areas with their own issues and politics that you are not yet prepared or capable to involve yourself in.

Also, you have to keep in mind there are production limits. They came up with enough stuff you could do in this world that realistically they had to draw the line somewhere.

[IHavoc]

Also, all of the nobles that are present will participate in your battles. Warleader seems more like an incidental position that the most capable of them takes every battle, rather than something explicitly handed out. Most roles on the Ring work that way.

Being warleader doesn't make someone any more or less likely to get injured, than the other nobles fighting. Battles don't take up extended periods of time where they could be doing something else (unless you already sent them out, but then they wouldn't be warleader anyway).

So there's really no practical or narrative reason to care that the game does that.

[Aleonymous]

Off topic: I am curious to see what A-Sharp comes up with Six Ages -- https://sixages.com/ I've only played a couple of hours of KoDP, but I will definitely be "following" this new game.

[IHavoc]

Finally, you're usually not going to get a second chance with events. And it's not really fair to complain about not being able to do something after the fact when there's no system in place outside of the event trees that could allow you to do those sorts of specific actions (helping ducks with the undead) when you wanted to.

It is a limitation, but a practical one. Adding persistent options to follow up on certain events to the map or diplomacy menu, considering the sheer number and variety of them, would be a lot to ask.

There are several cases where events like this will keep appearing multiple times or until you explicitly refuse, but aside from that you're SOL.

[CandyMissy]

Im not that good at playing. so sad tho