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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Factions Live! Feedback - (Your experience and thoughts on Basic Units)

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Korben View Post
    Did a quick read here and didn't see these suggestions:

    Ive played about 25 games and would like the info on the units to be more exact. Right now for the archer, it says does more dmg if enemy has lost some shield if the archer stays still. Id like it to say adds 1 Str for each 2 shield lost. Another example would be the tempest ability of the Warhawk. It says does dmg to enemies, but when used the swing will hit allies as well. I know if you go to the proving ground it will say there, but I would like to see it in the info box during the battle. Id like to be able to click on a unit and see the info without having to click on there profile picture at the bottom left.

    Also, I find it hard to quickly tell what unit is upgraded. Being able to rename them makes it even harder. I would like it to tell what the unit is under the renamed name.

    The Shieldbanger bangs his shield way too much, really annoying sound I'd like to turn off or have reduced.

    Thanks for Factions, I understand it is a bonus to the single player game and the micro transactions only applies to Factions.
    These are all great suggestions!

  2. #42
    I'm going to throw my beta-buyer opinion here! I loved the beta, played about 35 hours and now...

    I'll start listing what i found fun and compelling about the gameplay aspects:

    - Unit tweaking

    - Team building (considering units strenghts and weaknesses, units combinations and strategies)

    - Playing even games! The gameplay is so rich!

    - Naming my units and feeling attached to them.

    - Getting better by practice! Honing my tactics and being creative and bold while playing!

    Things the current renown sistem kills for me: Everything!

    - I have to invest a lot of time (or money) to get a team i want.
    - I want to have a lot of different builds, not one! So, more time/money.
    - I am at all times worried about renown for everyhting: renaming, tweaking stats (i never understood why the hell that costs renown...), hiring, expanding barracks, EVERYTHING! So, i'm not inclined to experiment and be bold and creative.
    - I have to play with strangers because I don't earn renown playing with friends.
    - I have to play with base units, wich becomes a grind and repetitive after a few matches (that may not be true for newcomers, though).


    Consequence: I don't want to play as much as I did.

    Solutions! (kinda)

    - Make it so renown serves only to buy aesthetic changes. Obviuosly, that kills the progress and all that, but the fun in this game comes from you getting better, not your units getting better. You can enhance the progress experience using things like titles (brilliant idea! i'm too lazy to check who said it first ^^) for different kill counts or renown gained. You can eliminate the renown as a currency and simply turn it into the elo ranking system, and introduce another currency that you can accumulate and buy aesthetic changes, re-renaming and expanding barracks (if you provided a more decent default barracks slots) with it.

    Another option is to use renown just to hire base units or ready to promote units and making the promotion free at the 5 kills. That would at least make you feel like you achieved something with the kills and let you mess with the stats and naming stuff more happily ^^

    I agree it's really hard to monetize skill based competitive multiplayer games with a f2p model without hurting the gameplay

    Don't get me wrong, i love the game and the work from the developers is amazing maybe it's just that we were too comfy with the old 1000 renown per week sistem, but i just feel that the current renown system is putting way too many walls between what a new player will experience and the fun you could have in the beta.
    Last edited by mariusmora; 02-21-2013 at 08:32 PM.

  3. #43
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Nice to know you enjoyed the beta mariusmora, and good of you to say what you liked and what you don't - balanced feedback and discussion is awesome. And thanks for replying asteris , will look forward to your full post.

    Mariusmora, I respectfully disagree on the "renown wall." For me, yes it's a lot different from the beta cos I'm only on basic units. But I think I'll enjoy promoting, hiring one unit at a team, adding a shiny brand new recruit and then advancing him on my roster. It really gives me this sense of building my warband as I spend time and effort. I realize this may be a preference thing. I feel the sense of attachment to your team and to your characters is much stronger when you need to grow with them through time, rather than having everything available at once. The main worry usually is only that this may take too long - but given that you can hire and promote a unit in a day or 2 if you set your mind to it, doesn't make me feel it's a grind at all.

  4. #44
    Superbacker netnazgul's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any issue with "renown wall" or something. For example, I throwed 15 renown on renaming (due to not knowing it costs 15 renown) but still it wasn't the reason I couldn't promote my warrior to warhawk - I just didn't have enough kills for him.

    For now there is only one use for renown apart from aesthetic use - promotion. Stat tweaking is free now. So basically you need only portions of 50 renown for each unit to promote and none above to raise his efficiency. As for renown gain - with daily streak bonus (+1) and expert bonus (+2; it's not so hard playing with 30 seconds cap really, just some anxious moments time to time) you get at least 5 renown in each battle (killing 2-3 enemies is easy even if you are heavily outskilled - just try to concentrate on killing instead of thinking to win when it's impossible to win) and win gives you even more - 1.5 hours worth of battles promotes a unit.

    For a suggestion I'll have some additional tweaking - now you don't have too much emphasis on what are your units like, especially basic ones: they have maxed stats and nothing to think about. Rank 1 character has more options. Maybe it should be thought about giving him 12 stats instead of 11.
    If you don't know where to put it - put it in the pillage

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  5. #45
    Kord said everything I want to say about the "Factions is, and should be more like, an RPG" perspective, and much more eloquently than I could have!

    Unlike Kord, I'm fine with unlocks, though, and if we're throwing around acronyms: I think Factions is ideally closest to a CCG. I never liked Magic and its ilk, but Kongai and TF2 (which is more frequently called a WTHS than a CCG, BTW) are pretty fun; and CCGs are much better than RPGs for MP games, I think. I'm good with unlocks as long as the game is fun at all stages (because the unlocks don't seriously unbalance the game -- TF2 and Kongai manage this, and, with proper team-power calculations, I think TBSF will, too). I can see how the perception that "I got beat because he/she's got x" can be harmful, even when not true, but...well, let's hope Stoic make it true and obvious that such a perception is erroneous in TBSF.

    @raven & mariusmora: I think mariusmora's proposal also entails "hiring one unit at a [time], adding a shiny brand new recruit and then advancing him [or her ]". If you still pay Renown to hire a unit and still need kills to advance...right? I'm used to the system that's in place, but if they switched to this system (and adjusted kill requirements and hiring costs to balance it), it would eliminate the weird disconnect between "Ready to Promote!" and the several games' worth of Renown required to actually make that promotion. There may be other ways Stoic can address the disconnect (which I think may prove to be a fairly serious issue among newcomers), but this is a straightforward and balance-able one, I think. And I imagine it's consistent with whatever motivated the switch to free respeccing.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrpresident View Post
    EDIT: Just remembered, why the heck don't we let players name their thrasher? That would create some player investment before they've even finished the tutorial.
    This. A thousand (give or take) times this. Okay, I don't feel that strongly about it, but it would be nice, though I can see how it might entail additional programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korben View Post
    Also, I find it hard to quickly tell what unit is upgraded. Being able to rename them makes it even harder. I would like it to tell what the unit is under the renamed name.
    I, too, want this once they have some battle-UI options.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by franknarf View Post
    ... RPG ... CCG ... WTHS ... BTW ... MP ... TF2 ... TBSF ...
    WHAT??? Sometimes I thin I am to old for this ... stuff!
    Honestly, I know RGP, BTW, MP and of course TBSF, but what does CCG and WTHS stand for?

  7. #47
    Hehe, CCG = Collectible Card Game, and WTHS is a category of games of which TF2 the only known member.

  8. #48
    Backer Conundrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arteris View Post
    Raven I just want to let you know that I will try to get back on the forums later tonight to respond to you in full, I just wanted to take a quick moment on my lunch break to reply to Conundrum's question and elaborate on my point.
    [snip]
    I may be the exception to the majority, but it makes the experience more rewarding for me to have that sense of connection and development especially in a game where you control a team. Much akin to Fallout: Tactics, X-Com, etc.
    I can see your point here, though I would point out that XCOM has progression as well (faster progression, maybe, but progression still). The main difference with XCOM, if I'm understanding you correctly, would be that you can customize your units right from the get-go?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    I can see your point here, though I would point out that XCOM has progression as well (faster progression, maybe, but progression still). The main difference with XCOM, if I'm understanding you correctly, would be that you can customize your units right from the get-go?
    I don't think arteris was arguing about the progression, just that the ability to personalize your characters and team takes a while, where as in XCOM it was immediate, so you don't get that connection to the guys you're playing initially.

    I was the one arguing that progression in a competitive setting can be bad, and I don't believe XCOM implements any sort of progression system in it's MP (could be wrong though, I only played a few games).

    Though I will say I was a bit harsh before. After playing a few matches in TBS post-launch, it's been fine. Still hope that tournaments force teams to use the same points, but so far I haven't had trouble with the matchmaking. Still a bit worried about later in the game's life, and how much experimentation we'll see, but I just need to play more to see that. So far though I'm definitely having fun, and I think the comparison to Magic is more fitting than the one I made to chess. I'm sure Magic players know that that can be pretty one-sided though depending on how much cash you're willing to drop, so as much as I love Magic, don't take too much from that, haha.

  10. #50
    Developer raven2134's Avatar
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    Tourney will be all rank 1, 6 units only . We will see what the rules will be when rank 2 and rank 3 come in. But initially, the tourney will be an even playing field unless you handicap yourself with stats.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by raven2134 View Post
    Tourney will be all rank 1, 6 units only .

  12.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #52
    Art Director Arnie's Avatar
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    Wow! Lots to digest here.
    I would like you to know in the next build renown will be gained a bit faster as we are including achievements which all give renown. We've lowered the renown cost on renaming. We've killed the cost on upgrading stats. We've done an overhaul on calculating team power to make it far more simple, understandable and impossible to game the system by dropping stat points to pwn newbs at lower tiers. We've also slowed up the matchmaking search by another 30 seconds to give that possible player at your same power level time to queue up rather than have to face a higher power opponent. Trust me, we will do everything we can to matchmake people of equal powers.
    It's always a balance when you're trying to design a game based on advancement, because some may see it as grinding. We're hoping to find a happy level of feeling like you've accomplished something when you upgrade a unit and at the same time not feeling like you're just grinding for it.
    Thank you for bearing with us as we continually tweak the game. We will be modifying it hopefully for years to come and have some very big ideas for where this can go...more info in the future of course.
    Skal, and thanks very much for all the great feedback!

  13. #53
    Ah, that sounds so great, Arnie!
    Impressive how well this whole developer/community feedback works.

    Any official word on Stoic's thoughts about the ability to change base unit stats?

  14. #54
    Big kudos to you and the whole Stoic team, Arnie!

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